Question For Any Enlightened Beings Here.

[Princess Arabia]

How has it changed you. Do you feel any different than how you felt before. If so, is this change temporary or permanent. Are you living from that place at all times. What would be the difference between you and somebody who still recognizes what they are but doesn't claim to be enlightened. How did this change occur. Would you consider yourself an Awakened being also; and did Awakening come prior to Enlightenment or is it the same thing. What's the difference to you. 

Without explaining what Enlightenment is, can you just say how you are different from say someone who recognizes Oneness or the non-dual nature of existence.  I'm not really looking for an intellectual explanation of what Enlightenment is, just what's the difference in the before and after in the way you interact in the world and amongst other people. 

This is mainly for anyone claiming to be Enlightened but others can also share their views on what they think about what I'm asking also, so it doesn't get too limited.

 

 

[Osaid]

It would be impossible for them to feel insulted because there is no self-image. They literally cannot think about themselves anymore because they realize it was impossible to do in the first place.

There is no social anxiety or anxiety of any kind, all unpleasant emotions are entirely situational, they have nothing to do with a person or object.

Energy levels become better as well. Sleep quality increases. Incessant thought-creation takes up a lot of energy.

It is impossible to have nightmares, your dreams become very vanilla. You are enlightened in the dream state as well, there is no feeling of anxiety or impending doom as you would have in a nightmare. Your sleep also becomes very deep. Dreams only happen when you are entering into sleep or exiting out of sleep.

Your perception of time also completely vanishes. There is no feeling of time, aside from telling yourself a number or word like "9:30 AM" or "Thursday."

You also don't feel boredom anymore, not in the conventional sense at least. There is absolutely no experience of "I can't believe im stuck in this experience." That type of boredom does not happen, but there can be a desire to change experience.

All emotions essentially get recontextualized to be purely situational. The emotion is a reaction to something you are currently experiencing, which does not include self-image.

Experientially, for me, it was like my experience, or mind, became much more "lighter" or clearer or lucid. Kind of like some slight brain fog lifted that I never noticed before. Just for example, when I go in public, it just feels like my experience is so smooth and free, whereas before I was constantly being attacked by other people's perceptions and thoughts (which were actually just my own). I have heard accounts of other enlightened people saying that they felt something in their brain "deactivate." This is accompanied by an immediate experiential recontextualization in experience, which is what you could say enlightenment is. And it is permanent. You don't unlearn it because it is not something you learn, it is the result of unlearning something. It is subtractive in nature. You don't integrate it because it is experiential, in the same way that you don't need to integrate looking at the color red. You just experience red, you don't integrate it. You just experience enlightenment, you don't integrate it.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Princess Arabia]

@Osaidthank you for that explanation. Can it become a gradual thing or does it just happen all at once. 

[Osaid]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

thank you for that explanation. Can it become a gradual thing or does it just happen all at once. 

It happens at once. It's a single realization.

There might be psychological baggage or trauma stored up in your body that releases itself afterwards, but all of that happens only after the initial realization and it naturally calibrates itself. You basically have to learn what life and emotions really are again.

I think if it does happen, the best way to verify is just to look at your perception of time, do you still feel that you are afflicted by time? Examining your relationship with boredom/angst is good too: Do you feel that there is something outside of your experience which is "better" than your current experience?

There is a lot of insight and experiences that can come before it, which you could call "awakenings" or "kensho" or "enlightenment experiences", which can be helpful and useful. They are like breadcrumbs which give a glimpse of enlightenment. They are part of the process. But it all essentially leads to a single permanent recontextualization or realization. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Osaid

[SOUL]

There isn't a universal experience of it, everyone has their own perspective, even as there are commonalities to it that most will encounter. Some will say it isn't even an experience, that it's an absence of experience.

Too often I see people chasing after another's perspective of it to give themselves credibility or using certain types of things to 'police' others at whether they are or aren't. These can become stumbling blocks to their own journey.

Seeking out descriptions or trying to describe it can also create separation, transcending the description can be liberating because it removes the 'things' for the ego to attach to.

[Osaid]

6 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Some will say it isn't even an experience, that it's an absence of experience.

That is because it is fundamentally subtractive in nature. It is realizing what you aren't, which leaves you at what you actually are. You can't point to it because it is a removal of belief/imagination. It is not a thing, it is like trying to describe negative space.

A lack of something can exist in all states, which is why enlightenment is also in all states, and that is also exactly why it is not a state/experience.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, Osaid said:

It happens at once. It's a single realization.

There might be psychological baggage or trauma stored up in your body that releases itself afterwards, but all of that happens only after the initial realization and it naturally calibrates itself. You basically have to learn what life and emotions really are again.

I think if it does happen, the best way to verify is just to look at your perception of time, do you still feel that you are afflicted by time? 

There is a lot of insight and experiences that can come before it, which you could call "awakenings" or "kensho" or "enlightenment experiences", which can be helpful and useful. They are like breadcrumbs which give a glimpse of enlightenment. They are part of the process. But it all essentially leads to a single permanent recontextualization or realization. 

Ok thank you. I'm not Enlightened but I've been through some of the things you mentioned and experienced. One of them is I cannot feel insulted anymore. Maybe that's just because I've developed a thick skin from dealing with people's shit and also recognizing that it's usually about them and not me. 

I never really had anxiety problems, always slept good, very rarely feel bored maybe because there's always something to distract me from being silent and meditating even though I do those things on the spur of the moment regularly if i'm not too distracted. A lot of the stuff you mentioned, I'm naturally like that as far as being in public and I'm very free spirited. 

I do have a sense of self, though, even though i've seen through the illusion of a separate self, if that makes sense. It's pretty obvious to me but I still operate from the egoic mind. My body is going through some changes where I have dramatic cravings that I've never had before and I find myself weeping sometimes just from feeling presence within and the life force flowing through me. I've gotten a lot more sensitive to people's suffering and much more empathetic than I used to be. I cannot stand it when I see people going through mental suffering, it's as if I'm the one feeling their pain - that has increases. Just writing that sentence tore me up a bit.

Anyway, I think I went through a shift in consciousness and have had a teeny bit of Awakening and experienced some changes but I still don't really think anyone gets really enlightened only Awakened only because of the plane we reside on called Earth and the conditions just aren't suited for the mental capacity to really experience Oneness in it's pure form. I won't get into that aspect for the sake of brevity and I'm probably wrong about that but who knows. 

[Princess Arabia]

24 minutes ago, SOUL said:

There isn't a universal experience of it, everyone has their own perspective, even as there are commonalities to it that most will encounter. Some will say it isn't even an experience, that it's an absence of experience.

Too often I see people chasing after another's perspective of it to give themselves credibility or using certain types of things to 'police' others at whether they are or aren't. These can become stumbling blocks to their own journey.

Seeking out descriptions or trying to describe it can also create separation, transcending the description can be liberating because it removes the 'things' for the ego to attach to.

Yes but this explanation seems to be like a warning of what to do or not to do because of the ego. If one becomes truly Enlightened, which just happens, why would one need to be concerned with what the ego might attach itself to. I personally don't think a human can experience total "non-separation" while in this body, enlightened or not. I don't even think it's possible to have that experience. Maybe feel a sense of oneness but not totally.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Osaid]

16 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Anyway, I think I went through a shift in consciousness and have had a teeny bit of Awakening and experienced some changes but I still don't really think anyone gets really enlightened only Awakened only because of the plane we reside on called Earth and the conditions just aren't suited for the mental capacity to really experience Oneness in it's pure form. I won't get into that aspect for the sake of brevity and I'm probably wrong about that but who knows. 

Forget oneness. That is just an idea for you. It means nothing. Just figure out what you are. What is your experience of yourself?

16 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Ok thank you. I'm not Enlightened but I've been through some of the things you mentioned and experienced. One of them is I cannot feel insulted anymore. Maybe that's just because I've developed a thick skin from dealing with people's shit and also recognizing that it's usually about them and not me. 

I never really had anxiety problems, always slept good, very rarely feel bored maybe because there's always something to distract me from being silent and meditating even though I do those things on the spur of the moment regularly if i'm not too distracted. A lot of the stuff you mentioned, I'm naturally like that as far as being in public and I'm very free spirited. 

I do have a sense of self, though, even though i've seen through the illusion of a separate self, if that makes sense. It's pretty obvious to me but I still operate from the egoic mind. My body is going through some changes where I have dramatic cravings that I've never had before and I find myself weeping sometimes just from feeling presence within and the life force flowing through me. I've gotten a lot more sensitive to people's suffering and much more empathetic than I used to be. I cannot stand it when I see people going through mental suffering, it's as if I'm the one feeling their pain - that has increases. Just writing that sentence tore me up a bit.

That seems reasonable for the most part. A lot of unpleasant emotions after enlightenment is literally just me assimilating other people's pain or self-image, because I still don't want to hurt people obviously, and my words and actions can hurt them. But it is also possible to overdo that if you ruminate on their pain incessantly, for example. You can't imagine their pain, but you can help them with it. It does not help them to imagine their pain, what helps them is what actually exists and what you can actually do about it. Focusing on that is the greatest help you can give them.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Osaid]

14 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Yes but this explanation seems to be like a warning of what to do or not to do because of the ego. If one becomes truly Enlightened, which just happens, why would one need to be concerned with what the ego might attach itself to.

For the record, I think it's totally valid to look for objective markers on enlightenment like you're trying to do. It may or may not even be possible to see it on a brain scan. Some people theorize it can be detected in the default mode network in the brain.

My claim is that any enlightened person will be able to vouch for the symptoms I mentioned, although they might describe it a bit differently. It actually takes a lot of effort to figure out and verbalize what actually happens to you post-enlightenment, so that is also an extra complication. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Osaid

[Princess Arabia]

6 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Forget oneness. That is just an idea for you. It means nothing. Just figure out what you are. What is your experience of yourself?

That seems reasonable for the most part. A lot of unpleasant emotions after enlightenment is literally just me assimilating other people's pain or self-image, because I still don't want to hurt people obviously, and my words and actions can hurt them. But it is also possible to overdo that if you ruminate on their pain incessantly, for example. You can't imagine their pain, but you can help them with it. It does not help them to imagine their pain, what helps them is what actually exists and what you can actually do about it. Focusing on that is the greatest help you can give them.

Ok thank you. I understand that about the people's pain part and don't go ruminating about it and i do try to help them the best I can, if I can; but it still doesn't negate the fact that I can feel their pain as if it were mine. They don't know this, though, as my reaction can sometimes come off as being cold and also with a hint of anger, but I've come to recognize that It's my way of avoiding those inner emotions that i feel when I see someone going through mental suffering and my way of disassociating from those feelings. I've done it quite a lot on this forum where I might sound angry or frustrated with someone while explaining something but it's because I hate to see them go through what they're going through so unnecessarily and I can feel their pain even through the computer.

Thanks for your input.

[Yimpa]

One of the biggest traps is trying to explain all of this to your “family”. They’re in the business of maintaining a rigid idea of who they think you are. And you’re trying to convince them otherwise. It’s a never ending cycle, so watch out!

[Osaid]

2 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Osaid how would you describe the difference (if any) between your realization and @VeganAwake?

I would say there is no difference between my realization and VeganAwake's realization, both are enlightenment, but the way he teaches it is by pointing to no-self a lot. I barely even mention "no-self" when I try to teach other people about it because I feel like most people already have ideas about what "no-self" means which are incorrect. There are many different ways to point people to it though. No-self is one way of describing it.

I have no idea about the other two, can't say if they got it or not. Galyna's recent thread seemed to be on point but it was also very poetic which made it hard to interpret. I don't remember anything concrete about Moksha.

[Salvijus]

If you ever experienced an inch of progress, a spek of clarity, a drop of joy, a crack of an open heart, a smidgen of willingness to surrender and trust. You know what enlightenment is. But I believe there is no end to enlightenment. It's just an endless increase of Greatness. So why call yourself anything? When that only limits your Light.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Salvijus

[CoolDreamThanks]

Beautiful questions, seems like they are arising from genuine wonder.  

I've recently had a shift, not claiming to be enlightened, as I'm not sure if I am, but something rather significant did occur. 

It happened after reading Jeshua Letters (recommended by Salvijus from this forum), where Jesus spoke, and it felt like he spoke to me directly, that the main issue I have is that I do not trust the voice that speaks to me in meditation. He said that I get in touch with the Flow of Divine Intelligence, but my ego does not believe it and tunes it out. 

For example, in meditation the Voice said that there are 2 parts to the Self - the smaller, physical mind and the non-physical, infinite self and they can communicate. At first I didnt listen, because I thought that that's duality, but it turns out that it's not the usual type of existential duality.

 

He also said that the lower mind has to submit to the higher mind, as it doesn't really know anything, it has infinite questions but no answers. That's why my zodiac is Taurus - I have horns and I am stubborn, I do not submit and hold to my opinnions very strongly. I need to hide my horns and tame the bull, as in the Ox Herding Pictures. I even look like I have horns.. 

After I submitted and allowed the Higher Mind to Flow through me, all I got was answers and Bliss. Extreme Bliss. I had to stop driving and asked my friend to drive as I couldnt function properly.  

The Flow said that I wanted this dream, I wanted to live this exact life. He also said that he speaks to me always, through music, through actualized forum, through my friends. He is like a puppet master in this dream. The Higher Mind is awakening the lower mind and they are One.

He also said that I shouldn't go to a mountain to meditate, my path is that of living fully, of following my passion, of flowing with the Divine Mind to wherever it takes me. Trust and Faith is what is needed now. Maybe in the end I will go to a mountain, but not now.

These days I sleep less, I dance most of the day, I feel various levels of bliss, I feel connected to the Higher Mind. There is still some cowebs to clean out, but it feels like the physical mind finally accepted that it has to surrender to the Higher Mind.  

I began to experience mind-blowing synchronicities, where I literally put my head in my hands and say - whaaat? What the fuck is hapenning??? How is everything so connected? How does the spirit speak to me through this person exactly what I need to hear now?  How is he singing to me through the radio??

He also thought me the true way to manifest.  It's all vibration, so how do we shift it higher?

Vibration depends on:

Definition of reality - how you define it, so it is. If you see reality as a playground with infinite possibilities and the power to choose the one you prefer, so it will be. 

Definition of self. My current one is: the Son of God is playing a VR game called "Awakening and Creation"

State of being. Flow and Surrender is best. Drop all control, all past knowledge and listen. Get in tune with the Divine Current. Breathe deep and slow. Relax your mind. Be still. Do not seek. The lower mind has to relax and surrender. 

Listening and acting on guidance from the Higher Mind. Acting is a must, as we are physical beings. If we don't act on inspiration from the Higher Mind, we will get stuck and it wont send any more instructions.   

If you are not in a state ( vibrational frequency) of your preffered reality, then you cant see opportunities to act on to make it come about.  

Imagine what it feels like having everything you want and just live there, maintain that state of being.

The main mistake I made when manifesting before was that it came from ego, which is effort and seeking. I got some results through dedication, but they weren't perfect. We can't create perfectly without the Higher Mind. 

Current manifestation is a result of being in Communion with the Higher Mind and simply Flowing with the visions (desires) that it gives me and acting on what it instructs me to do. 

Follow your passion as Bashar says. It's not really Bashar, though, but the same Higher Mind teaching us through all these channels.  

Oh, and one more important thing is: 

I get energetic information about what will happen. I knew exactly to whom I will sell my appartment, as when I looked at the number of the person calling I felt a tingling bliss sensation in my head.  The Spirit even changed the number of the person that called to the specific number that he usses when talking to me, which is 5 or 25. 

 

Listen to night dreams and analyse them upon waking. Spirit speaks there as well. I've got very clear answers to questions I had through my dreams.  

He showed me a holographic ear in my dreams, once again saying - just listen and follow. 

Oh, whenever I need to find something at home and dont know where it is, I just relax and say - Spirit, take my body and guide it to where the thing is. He always finds it immediately. The guidance is intuitive.   

I still interfere with the Higher Mind and get mixed messages, but I am learning to be in allignment and to tame my ego to let Spirit express itself unhindered. Its like tunning into a specific frequency, exactly like a radio  

My diet has never been "worse", I drink Cola and eat Fast Food and feel amazing. I spend crazy amounts of money, like 1.5k per day on clothing. I Love it. Fashion is my passion. I used to hinder it with my ego, but now I just flow. I go to nightclubs and have amazing experiences with people there. Probably the hottest girl I've seen said she's really attracted to me. I was just flowing and dancing and vibing.  

God is good.  

I started using weed to help my mind relax into the Flow.

Started doing pushups as well.  

Hope it helps in some way. Happy Holidays! 

Edit - another synchronicity, whilst I was typing Salvijus replied above. They never end. 😄

Edited December 27, 2023 by CoolDreamThanks

[Davino]

An interesting factor that I've noticed is that people near you also start waking up and becoming more conscious, both in transcendental and human realms. In the beggining you would want to do this but it didn't happen, later it happens misteriously on it's own accord and law. Everything is blessed in your presence as you recognize things for what they are and EVERYTHING FALLS INTO PLACE.

Unluckily I'm not awake. Consciousness is already awake at least that I can say.

[Javfly33]

6 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

'm not really looking for an intellectual explanation of what Enlightenment is, just what's the difference in the before and after in the way you interact in the world and amongst other people. 

This is mainly for anyone claiming to be Enlightened but others can also share their views on what they think about what I'm asking also, so it doesn't get too limited.

 

 

The main difference would be the ability to use the mind, emotion, focus, etc...whenever you feel like it and how you feel like it.

When One is stablished in Truth, it can operate the mind and body how it wants. 

Anyone that can not avoid getting entangled with thoughts when things go south, is not Awake.

 

[Keryo Koffa]

The path I walk is long, since I'm fueled by continuous deconstruction and recontextualization of reality instead of just being content which if I really willed, I could be since the path is infinite anyway, but I need to realize it like becoming meta of what I'm talking about right now, which I do for example by writing this very sentence and diverging from my original intention by new realization, but then I have priorities that keep me in the loop, because I'm not willing to let them go or change my awareness yet out of a deluded sense of obligation in hope of getting there after I conclude my local task.

So anyway, I've had 10 Psychedelic Trips in last 3 months and the insights are my continuous spiritual insights.

1 Letting go of disorders, fears and phobias and getting back to old friends
2 Feeling alive and getting in tune with my body, emotions, senses and passions
3 Revisiting my past to reexperience nostalgia and dancing for the first time
4 Immortality lost appeal when contextualized to be a prison of my own creation
5 Seeing the nature of society, its structure and myself within it, quit my job
6 Unlocking cognitive speedrunning and witnessed myself and others ethologically
7 Realizing I was the alien I was looking for all along, materializing in body
8 Becoming aware of universal consciousness and a transcendent "puppet-master"
9 Breaking through fear-rationalization, consciousness disconnect and letting go
10 Clearing my "cache" and old "to-do" pointers, realizing them now instead

So I'm really getting the feeling of trembling next to a singularity at this point and I want to conclude and let go of all the memories that keep me localized by reexperiencing them and then letting go, my physical environment and my computer is full of ideas I saved in a desire to realize them at some point, but the desire is recontextualized now and no longer authentic, I still feel that I need to fully immerse myself in those one last time to show my past self some love, before I completely change my trajectory towards conscious practical spiritual in the present living without baggage, being mobile, unattached, all reasoning top down from universal recontextualization and transforming it at every new insight and recontextualizing anew, intuiting the arbitrariness of the process and living on ever less concepts and instead point to reality more, building holistic minimalistic contextualized theories instead. So that's where I'm at, and being aware, open and having let go, I will soon recontextualize myself anew in my next trip. But not before squeezing as much consciousness out of myself as possible before tripping, since the trip is a multiplier to base consciousness, and I can do so much more now, before I enter another wave of synthetic accelerationism. Truly I'm intuiting that my identity is the process of getting closer to an asymptote instead of becoming the value out of ego-identification, but it only takes one move to change that when aware, and I'm leaving that for later \

[Keryo Koffa]

New ideas flowed in. You know how Leo talks about conditional and unconditional love?

It's the same with letting go. There is conditional and unconditional letting go. If you need to materialize a desire in reality to be able to let go of it, then it's conditional letting go. If you can however consciously and unemotionally dismiss it, then it's unconditional letting go. It's acceptance all over again. But we are so lost in the ego, that we cannot just accept high teachings, the disconnect is too large, the intuition unclear and the will not present. One needs to burn some karma to understand what it feels like and be able to abstract all similar processes away but there is also a will to experience that needs to be realized in some shape and form to be let go of. Emotions are desires, not good or bad but they keep you localized, or at least that's the illusion when one doesn't contextualize them. That's why mindfulness is so important. Imagine if your memory reset every time you slept, you'd never make progress, your brain is limited but it has mechanisms to account for that, specific information is accessed in association and gets slowly abstracted into a broader intuition.

The road to enlightenment, as I see it, is continuous conscious experience of letting go in different ways and burning your karma to build a deep intuition of the process, annihilate ever more ego-desires, be ever more in tune with the universe and oneself to then finally be so conscious that nothing can shake you anymore. Though I'm not there yet, it's just an intuition. I feel the drive to explore the universe, enter astral realms, construct understanding and sense more qualia. All desires, all infinitely perpetuable. I guess it depends on what we define as Enlightened. To live is to prefer existing, to do nothing is still to breathe or not to breathe, how does an enlightened one act. If it is to the best of one's ability and conscious awareness, then isn't that just a highly aware variable and minimalist ego? There is still dualistic context, senses show something, something is not nothing, an image even when undifferentiated into objects is still intuitively identifiable. All I'm saying is theory and not being although it is based on intuition gained on high states of being. I'd love for someone to comment on my intuition, give perspective.

My latest insights are:

Some things, you only allow yourself to let go of, if you materialize them in the physical world, and then dismiss them for they now exist apart of the mind that feels an obligation towards them

Communication is intention but no intention is as strong as the one who receives these words now

Only have with you as much as you can carry

Wisdom is proportional to and the process of universal contextualization

It's not that I didn't know, I was too focused to be aware

[Princess Arabia]

@CoolDreamThanksI loved reading your post. It was like I went for a Spiritual joyride. I resonated with it deeply and some of the things you wrote I've also witnessed or experienced. One is looking for simple stuff at home and asking to show me where it is, and the next place I look it's there. That's a common occurrence. Also singing a song and turning on the radio and the same song is playing. Lot's of synchronicities and they keep coming because I acknowledge them out loud when I notice. 

Your whole expression of your experiences was a pleasure to read, thank you.