Why don't all attractive women get with men with high social status or great game?

[Hardkill]

I get that women are sexually/romantically attracted to men with high social status or sexual charisma. Yet, because most women are either unattractive or have average level of attractiveness, most of them end up having to settle for men who are average to below average in personality, looks, social status, and wealth. Then again, I know many attractive women who have hooked up with, dated, and/or married men who have very little to no social status, have average to below average social skills/game, average to below average looks, and are not rich. Why is that?

Edited December 24, 2023 by Hardkill

[Hardkill]

bump

[Cocolove]

Every concept of reality is parital.

In this case, sounds like you've got a bit of a red pill hypergamy perspective, which is quite partial. While it might be helpful in some cases, reality simply is not as you concieve it. It is very complicate. There are other perspectives, like romantic love, finding someone who is a good fit.

Not all women want the same thing. Those men certainly have something going for them in a lot of the scenarios.

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Cocolove said:

Every concept of reality is parital.

In this case, sounds like you've got a bit of a red pill hypergamy perspective, which is quite partial. While it might be helpful in some cases, reality simply is not as you concieve it. It is very complicate. There are other perspectives, like romantic love, finding someone who is a good fit.

Not all women want the same thing. Those men certainly have something going for them in a lot of the scenarios.

So, not all attractive women are just waiting for some famous guy that is the right fit for them?

Edited December 26, 2023 by Hardkill

[Cocolove]

Well said  

[bebotalk]

this redpill concept is so cringe. 

The reality is most people don't know nor meet those with uber-wealth. Most people are of average means. Most don't know supreme wealth. For this reason alone, amongst many others, they won't date high earners. 

[Alexop]

@Hardkill Women hook with the guys that they get to know, they met them through social circle most probably, they were not the coolest or the wealthiest, they are who they are. The best way to meet your girl is to socialize, you can be a "beta" with " bad body language" and still meet a cool girl if you are kind, somewhat sociaily calibrated and get out of your house.

[Israfil]

On 24/12/2023 at 2:37 AM, Hardkill said:

I get that women are sexually/romantically attracted to men with high social status or sexual charisma. Yet, because most women are either unattractive or have average level of attractiveness, most of them end up having to settle for men who are average to below average in personality, looks, social status, and wealth. Then again, I know many attractive women who have hooked up with, dated, and/or married men who have very little to no social status, have average to below average social skills/game, average to below average looks, and are not rich. Why is that?

Because people are not calculators. If you treat people like people, all of a sudden, even if you don't have a lot of superficially attractive traits, people want to be close to you.

I managed to get a girlfriend, while completely broke and depressed, just because I didn't see her as a collection of arbitrary estimates that a pseudo-scientific PUA YouTube channel said I should evaluate her, or me for that matter. I saw a girl, I thought she was interesting, I started to know her, we liked each other and we dated. That's how most healthy regular relationships are. Don't take this redpill frame seriously. It is itself an illusion.

[Wisebaxter]

[Emotionalmosquito]

2 hours ago, Israfil said:

while completely broke and depressed

“depressed”

Didn’t you just say

2 hours ago, Israfil said:

You have to take care of your mental health first, and talk to other people later.

in the other thread?

2 hours ago, Israfil said:

If you treat people like people, all of a sudden, even if you don't have a lot of superficially attractive traits, people want to be close to you.

That’s great but all your progress goes to shit the very second you say something dumb or make a mistake. Which is guaranteed to happen for those of us inexperienced. Even if we’re treating her the way we’d like to be treated the whole time. 

Thats why we’re on eggshells all the time and why it’s so insurmountably difficult.

2 hours ago, Israfil said:

I saw a girl, I thought she was interesting, I started to know her, we liked each other and we dated. That's how most healthy regular relationships are. Don't take this redpill frame seriously. It is itself an illusion.

That’s great too if you can get her to respond to you like an actual human instead of a robot. Also in the other thread you pointed out me dehumanizing women by calling them different creatures? I understand they’re humans too. I shouldn’t have called them different creatures but I absolutely stand by them being very very different.

They get dehumanized because they do the same to us. I can do the most plain, friendly, non-provoking approach possible only for them to act like I’ve committed some huge crime by daring to speak to the all mighty her without permission. Happens all the time.

Pardon the hateful talk in this screenshot and take note of what he’s saying 

[Israfil]

58 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

That’s great but all your progress goes to shit the very second you say something dumb or make a mistake. Which is guaranteed to happen for those of us inexperienced. Even if we’re treating her the way we’d like to be treated the whole time. 

False. People fuck up all the time. It is expected. They will fuck up with you too. That's why the word "sorry" was invented.

 

58 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

3 hours ago, Israfil said:

while completely broke and depressed

“depressed”

Didn’t you just say

3 hours ago, Israfil said:

You have to take care of your mental health first, and talk to other people later.

in the other thread?

What I meant is that you cannot develop social abilities with a fucked up mind. I was sexually active for over 6 years at that point. I knew how to get girls. The depression came from other problems I had in my life. I went to therapy and changed careers after that.

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

They get dehumanized because they do the same to us. I can do the most plain, friendly, non-provoking approach possible only for them to act like I’ve committed some huge crime by daring to speak to the all mighty her without permission. Happens all the time.

 

You can keep doing this, and keep having the same results, and keep complaining on the same forums about the same results, or you can break the chain that everyone is perpetuating by actually relating to those people without seeing them as simply a hole you can get into. 

 

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Firstly, the OP is not entitled to their attention. Period. Waving your hand in front of someone's phone is everything but polite. You said in another post of yours that a "harmless joke" made a woman reject you or something and the actual joke was very rude. Your self-perception and OP's perception may be very skewed and biased.

I really think you should master your basics. Create a good sleep schedule, organize your personal space, donate, sell and throw away old things you have lying around, go back to or develop hobbies that stimulate your mind, especially in the crafts, or artistic areas, meet people with similar hobbies and talk to them as friends. Eventually, you'll make one or more friends, and they will introduce you to more people. One of them might be someone who interests you and then you can try to develop a relationship with them. The best part of this approach is that you don't lose any of the things you've accomplished in the process of developing your social skills. Even if you lose some friend or fail to get a date, you still have everything else that makes your life interesting and, being social, you can simply make more friends or meet new girls. 

I've doing this for over 10 years. It is not a simple or easy process. But it's either this or loneliness. 

[universe]

Maybe they don't feel like they deserve a good partner.

You know, it's not only guys who have bad mindset. Or insecurities.

It also comes down to taste and perceived value (not actual value).

[Devin]

They wouldn't be successful men if they had that poor of judgment, we live in a society of different classes, men from the wealthy class are not going to marry to a lower class. Your idea of attractive taught to you by your subculture is not what is taught by theirs either.

[something_else]

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Pardon the hateful talk in this screenshot and take note of what he’s saying 

You just know this dude has zero social life at uni.

If you can’t find socially acceptable ways to approach girls at uni and resort to bitterly spam approaching on campus streets, you’re doing several things wrong.

If he looks half decent and got a couple of friends to go to some parties or clubs with he’d be totally fine, but instead he’s choosing possibly the most difficult way possible to get laid at uni and then complaining that it doesn’t work.

Edited December 28, 2023 by something_else

[eos_nyxia]

12 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

That’s great too if you can get her to respond to you like an actual human instead of a robot. Also in the other thread you pointed out me dehumanizing women by calling them different creatures? I understand they’re humans too. I shouldn’t have called them different creatures but I absolutely stand by them being very very different.

They get dehumanized because they do the same to us. I can do the most plain, friendly, non-provoking approach possible only for them to act like I’ve committed some huge crime by daring to speak to the all mighty her without permission. Happens all the time.

Pardon the hateful talk in this screenshot and take note of what he’s saying 

I used to be pretty nice to people who approached me to talk to me randomly, even if I had no interest in them and their motives were transparent enough. I consider this to be an act of grace and openness since: 1) attention is not owed just because you think it is, and modern "first world" societies tend to be emotionally closed to strangers and insular. Is it emotionally healthy for human beings overall? Probably not.  2) I don't want anything in that way from people who approach me, especially now more than ever. But I'm also "old" whether I look it or not, so I think I deserve a break, lol....

But surely, it's not that hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes and to see why having a rando treat you as a sex ATM, "nice" or not, is not of great interest to many people. Especially if these people are just going about their business in their day-to-day lives.

Sorry that you're not getting your needs and desires met.

Edited December 28, 2023 by eos_nyxia

[eos_nyxia]

On 2023-12-23 at 9:37 PM, Hardkill said:

I get that women are sexually/romantically attracted to men with high social status or sexual charisma. Yet, because most women are either unattractive or have average level of attractiveness, most of them end up having to settle for men who are average to below average in personality, looks, social status, and wealth. Then again, I know many attractive women who have hooked up with, dated, and/or married men who have very little to no social status, have average to below average social skills/game, average to below average looks, and are not rich. Why is that?

You could just be grateful that there are women who are not as superficial as you might be in their situation, haha.

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:53 PM, something_else said:

If you can’t find socially acceptable ways to approach girls at uni and resort to bitterly spam approaching on campus streets, you’re doing several things wrong.

What is cold approach if not spam approaching people to up your social game through practice? Leo even suggested to me directly to go to college campuses and talk to the girls there for cold approach practice. I thought spam approaching was most of what pickup is? 

And I don’t think it’s bitterly approaching because he said he’s doing it nicely. It’s only bitter in his post because he’s rightfully pissed about it.

On 12/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, Israfil said:

Waving your hand in front of someone's phone is everything but polite

How else are you supposed to get their attention, raise your voice loud enough so they can hear through the earbuds?

On 12/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, Israfil said:

especially in the crafts, or artistic areas

Would horribly disturbing “shock value” standup comedy qualify as an art or craft?

On 12/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, Israfil said:

Even if you lose some friend or fail to get a date, you still have everything else that makes your life interesting

I don’t care about any of the other stuff at all besides the possible dating opportunities. Everything else is less than worthless to me.

On 12/27/2023 at 1:08 PM, Israfil said:

It is not a simple or easy process. But it's either this or loneliness. 

The four ways to get laid for the average man are:

• Prostitution 
• Social networking 
• Online dating 
• Cold approach 

It sounds like you’re telling me it’s either social networking or loneliness.

Then what’s with all this cold approach and outer game talk? That’s what sounds appealing to me. That and prostitution. 

You also say it’s not a simple or easy process. Why not? It’s only what is and has been the primary driving force of all life for billions of years. Why should it be so goddamn hard now? There has to be a better way. It’s completely fucking retarded and wrong on all levels how we have to go through so much psychological torture just to get one of our most simple, basic needs fulfilled. 

😫🔫 

Thats why prostitution is one of my saving graces. But that still doesn’t provide the temporary girlfriend experience 

On 12/27/2023 at 11:57 PM, eos_nyxia said:

But surely, it's not that hard to put yourself in someone else's shoes and to see why having a rando treat you as a sex ATM, "nice" or not, is not of great interest to many people. Especially if these people are just going about their business in their day-to-day lives.

They may be randos and they may be sex hungry, but it’s not like we’re coming at these women like horny sex-demons demanding they give it up to us. That’s the whole point of outer game and pickup. It’s to go through the dance of doing all the extra shit like making her laugh, showing her our serious side, showing her we’re grounded and cool, passing all the shit tests, etc. To ultimately woo her into bed with us. That’s what pickup is as I understand it.

It’s fine if someone isn’t interested. It’s anything but fine when people accuse you of harassment and deny you access to wherever you were practicing because you were “bothering people”. That has happened to myself and others on this forum.

It is downright evil to deny someone their chances of achieving the greatest feeling of all because the security and those in the area (many of whom probably have wives or girlfriends of their own that they had to get somehow) have decided your lack social skills, especially with the ladies, means you’re unwelcome. 

How are we supposed to get better if this is going to happen?

When people with no issue getting dates belittle and cock block us for trying to fix our own issue with getting dates, it’s no different than the rich ostracizing the poor.

Or another way to put it is: They’re kicking us out of clubs or malls or college campuses for giving girls the creeps due to our inexperience, yet the very thing we’re doing is trying to gain experience in order to know how to stop giving them that reaction. Which we can’t do because they won’t let us because we don’t have enough experience to not come off weird. It works against us in a loop.

sorry, I know u didn’t say anything about getting kicked out of places. I have a habit of ranting 

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

45 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Wouldn't surprise me if they did that to avoid having random strangers approach them all the time when they're just going about their day.

I agree, and that is bad bad news for cold approachers 

[something_else]

5 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

What is cold approach if not spam approaching people to up your social game through practice? Leo even suggested to me directly to go to college campuses and talk to the girls there for cold approach practice. I thought spam approaching was most of what pickup is? 

If you are in uni, you should start by:

• going to hobby/interest clubs and societies
• going to uni parties and cold approaching women
• going to clubs and cold approaching women
• just generally building up a social circle

If you are avoiding all of these mind-numbingly easy ways to meet women in uni in favour of spam approaching them on campus streets, then you are an S tier dumbass.

If you're not in uni, the same list of starting points applies to be honest, it's just a lot harder to do these things outside of uni.

Quote

I thought spam approaching was most of what pickup is? 

Yes but choosing your location is really important. Pickup almost brainwashes you into doing cold approach on the streets like a door to door salesmen, when for most guys this is such an awful option. Especially if you are new and just trying to build up some social skills.

[Israfil]

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

How else are you supposed to get their attention, raise your voice loud enough so they can hear through the earbuds?

On 27/12/2023 at 4:08 PM, Israfil said:

It doesn't matter. You're not entitled to someone else's attention. If they're unavailable, you should leave them alone. 

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Would horribly disturbing “shock value” standup comedy qualify as an art or craft?

On 27/12/2023 at 4:08 PM, Israfil said:

It can be, as long as you put serious thought and consideration into it, instead of simply being an idiot spilling untasteful jokes, as most of "shock value" comedians tends to be.

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I don’t care about any of the other stuff at all besides the possible dating opportunities. Everything else is less than worthless to me.

On 27/12/2023 at 4:08 PM, Israfil said:

You won't get far into your dating life if all you have is a dating life. People don't like people without anything going on in their lives.

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

The four ways to get laid for the average man are:

• Prostitution 
• Social networking 
• Online dating 
• Cold approach 

It sounds like you’re telling me it’s either social networking or loneliness.

Then what’s with all this cold approach and outer game talk? That’s what sounds appealing to me. That and prostitution. 

You also say it’s not a simple or easy process. Why not? It’s only what is and has been the primary driving force of all life for billions of years. Why should it be so goddamn hard now? There has to be a better way. It’s completely fucking retarded and wrong on all levels how we have to go through so much psychological torture just to get one of our most simple, basic needs fulfilled. 

😫🔫 

Thats why prostitution is one of my saving graces. But that still doesn’t provide the temporary girlfriend experience 

Cold approach sounds appealing to you because you think you're entitled to sex. That's why you like prostitution too. Sex is an important component of life, but if you only focus on getting it you seriously damage your mental health and overall development. You sound like a teenager. That's why I'm saying you would be better off if you develop your life. 

Sexual success was never easy, especially for men. About half of the men in the entire history of humanity managed to procreate. That's by design. You don't want your daughter to have a kid with some horndog that does nothing in life but complain about their situation and annoy people on the streets. So we created environments and social norms to ensure that properly developed and socially apt people have more chances of having sex. If you want to have a fulfilling sexual life, that will come when you develop the rest of it. You can keep doing what you are doing or actually listen to someone that has no interest in selling you a shitty pickup course or keeping you in the bubble of comfortable self-loathing that 4chan or whatever incel forum you go to provides. Strive for greatness. Pick a high-consciousness goal and work towards it. You'll find plenty of sex along the way.