Immortality

[Philip]

... yet.

[nbolt]

And this extremely vague definition is unique to humans... because? What is your rational basis for anything? There is no reason future AIs cannot "experience".

[nbolt]

It has nothing to do with what you "view" it as, because you still have not defined anything. Do you not realize this? Do you not realize you are running off of nothing but intuition? Because it feels right ? It won't give that replicated brain any "life"? What is your definition of "life"? Why won't this replicated brain have any life? Explain yourself.

Our sense of self is so deeply-rooted in our psychology it is almost impossible to see through, but it can be done.

You say consciousness isn't a thing. I agree. It isn't a thing. It isn't anything. It doesn't exist. Or, if you take the perspective that it does exist, then it would be everything. Literally everything. You are no more your body than you are a coffee table than you are a future AI. The concept of self is a fiction and once you see through that, you can see you are no different from any other entity in reality.

[Philip]

Okay, allow me to propose two thought experiments.

• Let's say we replicate a human sperm and a human egg cell to the exact atomic level. Will they become alive when the two fuse ? Will it create an alive human being ?;

If it's yes, please tell me. And in that case, the second thought experiment is useless. But If it's no :

• Then let's say it grows into an adult human being, which is not alive. He can talk, walk or make friends, just like any alive human being. And nobody suspects a thing, because it's a perfect replica. But he's not alive at all. So this adult meets someone else, and they have a baby together.
  Is the baby alive ?
  Semi-alive ?
  Or not alive ? 

Please answer with one of the three choices. Please, just please.

[nbolt]

Are you serious? You think future human clones will be "less than human"? Their experience of consciousness will be somehow fundamentally different than ours? Na man, you're the one that's deluded here. You can't accept consciousness as everything, as the foundation of all existence, and then deny certain aspects of reality that make you feel less significant. I'm done commenting here. Nothing more to see than an ego trying to preserve itself.

[Philip]

 

build a human being that's not alive

Secondly, you seem to believe that an exact atomic replica of a human being would be somehow different than a human being. But it wouldn't. If you got replicated, your family wouldn't notice. Your dog wouldn't notice. A doctor wouldn't notice. A physicist wouldn't notice. The human replica itself wouldn't notice that he's a different person than you. He would have your memories, your personality, your behavior.

You would be, in a sense, the only one to notice, because you would still be inside your original body. And this replica would be outside of you, claiming to be you.

And it seems you don't have any argument whatsoever as to why that replica wouldn't be alive. In a sense, you're already a human creation. It's just that your parents didn't have to be engineers to create you, if you know what I mean

And no matter how you're created (in a bed or in a lab), you still exhibit the same properties if you have the same atoms. You are the arrangement of your atoms. So this replica would simply be another you. Not more or less alive. Not more or less of anything. The only difference is that you can't see through its eyes or hear through its ears, because it has an independent stream of consciousness.

I hope you find some logic in this thought. I hope you won't get distracted by a small flaw in my argumentation. I hope you will see it as a whole and make a openminded but yet skeptical attent at really understanding what I mean.

[nbolt]

Materialistic world view? What does that even mean? Your reasoning is completely empty. You don't think humans are nothing but atoms yet you are unable to explain yourself further. You have yet to lose your ego. You think you're some super special separate entity in the universe when you are not.

[Philip]

First of all, thanks for clarifying.

Now back to my thought experiments. Please bear with me here.

This "form of matter without consciousness" you're talking about...

IF it was ever created and

IF it could procreate with a normal human being,

(1) would the offspring be a human being ?

(2) would the offspring be "forms of matter without consciousness" ?

or (3) would it be somewhere in the middle ?

I think the question is clear. I think you have no excuse to dodge it this time. No excuse whatsoever. Like, none.

So please.

PLEASE !

Answer (1), or (2), or (3)

Thank you.

[nbolt]

So you have no basis for anything you've been saying.

[Guest]

Do you believe in consciousness after the body dies?

[Falk]

good old aubrey. A man beeing 40, looking 80, beeing obsessed with not aging  Brilliant scientist thou, no question!

Funny i just thought about aubrey de grey and his project yesterday.

Inevitably enlonging human life span will be possible in 20 years, no doubt!

95% of people will work as basicly slaves making cloth and phones and drones and nano-bots and 5% will be 130years old, looking 60, playing golf enjoying a pina colada enabled by the freshly grown 3rd liver, better enjoy that shit, it cost me 30k *cheers*

 

 

 

 

[30secs]

It's just a process from one form to another form. But I wander if Scientist will prove that any physical matter will going to nothing by throwing it into Blackhole, I mean it's almost become unscientific, just a true magic!

[diamondpenguin]

All I know about this is that I am growing my consciousness to find out. 

[pluto]

I am over 10 thousand years old, the key is love.

[Raptorsin7]

@pluto The body you're in right now is 10 000 years old? Or you have memories and recollection of past lives spanning 10 000 years?