Attachment: How attached are you to your family?

[Miguel1]

The time of the year is here: The Beautiful and Peaceful Christmas.

...where everyone in the family gathers and acts peaceful, happy and loving, while inside they're boiling from repressions of inner conflict. And any small trigger will release a bunch of the repressed feelings...

I'm still fairly young, but each year that passes, I lose more and more interest in spending time with my family and I feel a bit guilty for this (help 🥹).

If my family's values were green, that would be a dream. But they are not even orange. They are mostly blue.

At least, when I go out to clubs to socialize, I can self-amuse myself and act like a fool, for fun. For my own joy and laughter. Some people hate it but then there are plenty of people who love it. And on top of that, there are a bunch of cool, open-minded, healthy orange and green types of people I can bump into by chance.

When it comes to my family, any small amount of authentic conversation goes out the window to begin with because engaging in any bit of a nuanced conversation will lead to someone getting defensive. Self-amusement is impossible due to the traditionality and conservativeness: gotta behave well, well-mannered, sophisticated, civilized, cultured etc.

So I'm left with the only option of acting like this traditional, well-behaved stage blue character. And seriously, I don't get much joy out of it at all. I would much rather prefer to be alone. Or spend the day with a girl. Or even hit the clubs. Or work.

----

Please share your stories of how you have detached from your family and what are your conclusions in your relationship with the incrementally and exponentially growing difference in your development compared to your family.

Do you still hang out with your family regularly? Do you see them only 1-3 times a year? Have you cut them off completely?

I think at this point where I am currently at, I would prefer to cut them off completely. But there is a bit of guilt arising from that idea. Also, I'm not sure if I am being selfish here because I would deeply hurt them if I were to cut them off. So perhaps, it would be best for me to keep seeing them 1-3 times a year, as a character they like... Or... is this just me people-pleasing in an unhealthy way and letting others step over my boundaries?

Edited December 21, 2023 by Miguel1

[Nilsi]

Why do you feel the need to play some kind of role, when you don’t value your parents judgement?

I stopped giving a fuck a long time ago — deliberately transgressing social norms and my families expectations of me is probably the only thing that will bring me some joy the next couple days (and booze) lol

[Nilsi]

This is my Christmas vibe  

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

This is my Christmas vibe  

Lol.

 

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

Why do you feel the need to play some kind of role, when you don’t value your parents judgement?

I stopped giving a fuck a long time ago 

The issue is not that I give a fuck. I care less and less every year. The issue is hurting their feelings deeply. It is called empathy.

 

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

deliberately transgressing social norms and my families expectations of me is probably the only thing that will bring me some joy the next couple days (and booze) lol

This was fun for me to do 10 to 5 years ago. Nowadays, I don't bother. Actually feel bad for hurting their feelings, hence the post above.

I am contemplating whether to give them the little joy I can by putting a bit of effort each year into a character OR just simply cutting ties with them, which would deeply hurt them, possible for decades until they die.

The question is not about giving a fuck or not. The question is about what is the most loving thing to do here, when considering the big picture of both parties.

[Nilsi]

2 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Lol.

 

The issue is not that I give a fuck. I care less and less every year. The issue is hurting their feelings deeply. It is called empathy.

 

This was fun for me to do 10 to 5 years ago. Nowadays, I don't bother. Actually feel bad for hurting their feelings, hence the post above.

I am contemplating whether to give them the little joy I can by putting a bit of effort each year into a character OR just simply cutting ties with them, which would deeply hurt them, possible for decades until they die.

The question is not about giving a fuck or not. The question is about what is the most loving thing to do here, when considering the big picture of both parties.

I can not play this role authentically, so trying to do so would be even less empathetic imo.

This way they at least get an authentic interaction with me, even if the son-parent dynamic is broken. 

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Nilsi said:

I can not play this role authentically, so trying to do so would be even less empathetic imo.

This way they at least get an authentic interaction with me, even if the son-parent dynamic is broken. 

I totally understand your thinking.

But at the same time there is wisom in ''meeting people where they are at'', especially when it is about casual stuff like socializing.

[Nilsi]

10 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

I totally understand your thinking.

But at the same time there is wisom in ''meeting people where they are at'', especially when it is about casual stuff like socializing.

Let me correct my statement: the dynamic of our relationship doesn’t allow any of us to step into our role as family member. I’m just the one that stopped attempting to make this work altogether.

I have no problem calibrating to social contexts and playing a role — in fact I’m extremely good at it (working in sales, that’s basically my job).

Edited December 21, 2023 by Nilsi

[Carl-Richard]

17 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

If my family's values were green, that would be a dream. But they are not even orange. They are mostly blue.

Better than having a Blue shadow.

 

17 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

So I'm left with the only option of acting like this traditional, well-behaved stage blue character. And seriously, I don't get much joy out of it at all. I would much rather prefer to be alone. Or spend the day with a girl. Or even hit the clubs. Or work.

That is where your own Blue is supposed to come into play. Why are you so averse to behaving according to some standard at a dinner party? Why should a family gathering be about you and your self-amusement? You're lucky to even have a family, and it's one of the few pillars of safety and emotional regulation you have. Where is the sense of graditude and duty to see, feel and respect your family members as they are? Do you not care for them the same way you would care about a child, despite their perceived immaturity? Now for something maybe less Blue: these are questions to contemplate, not to be taken on blind faith, as all family situations are different.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[gettoefl]

for your family you are plan a ... there isn't plan b ... swallow some humble pie and get over being all superior ... be the light in the darkness

you are who you are because of what they made you and ideally that induces some thankfulness some feeling of indebtedness

maturity is to be authentic no matter how stifling and cringe and disturbed people are

everyone in your family, everyone in your house, everyone in your world is acting according to the level of pain they are in

this includes you

reflect on that

[Miguel1]

6 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why are you so averse to behaving according to some standard at a dinner party?

The deeper question to that is:

Why should I even attend such party?

Why should one attend to a sports event if one is not interested in it?

On top of that, one currently has huge stuff one needs to focus on and attend to. Family, relatives, friends and socialization can be a huge distraction.

Should one be interested in biz, marketing and sales if one is far beyond financial survival already.

You pointed out some reason-questions to contemplate and I have contemplated then for god knows how many hours. I have almost come to final conclusion. The point of sharing this opener is so people share their experiences in case I have missed something, a blindspot.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Miguel1

[Miguel1]

19 hours ago, Nilsi said:

I’m just the one that stopped attempting to make this work altogether.

I have no problem calibrating to social contexts and playing a role — in fact I’m extremely good at it (working in sales, that’s basically my job).

I see.

I have no problem calibrating to social contexts in general but imagine calibrating to some tribal social context (extreme example to make a point).

At some point, you ask yourself: why bother? There are bigger fishes to fry. Bigger, more meaningful stuff to spend your time on.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

The deeper question to that is:

Why should I even attend such party?

Why should one attend to a sports event if one is not interested in it?

On top of that, one currently has huge stuff one needs to focus on and attend to. Family, relatives, friends and socialization can be a huge distraction.

Should one be interested in biz, marketing and sales if one is far beyond financial survival already.

You pointed out some reason-questions to contemplate and I have contemplated then for god knows how many hours. I have almost come to final conclusion. The point of sharing this opener is so people share their experiences in case I have missed something, a blindspot.

You keep talking about not wanting to hurt them. I'm saying it's going to hurt you. Cutting ties with your family just because you're slightly annoyed by some of their character flaws is a very stupid thing to do.

If there is one thing humans are born to do, it's to be social. Close social bonds is arguably the fundamental building block for basic mental health (and general safety), and your family is your most stable and least conditional source of this. If something goes horribly wrong in your life and you need help, the last people to leave you is your family.

The individualistic culture in the West is absolutely psychotic when it comes to basic things like this. The nuclear/-pseudo-extended family is bad enough as it is (you're evolutionarily built to be in close contact with an entire clan/tribe, not just a few people). You're like a survivor of a shipwreck floating on a piece of wood deciding to throw away that last source of supporting buoyancy.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

You can be autonomous from your family and enjoy it at the same time, so no dilemma.

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

just because you're slightly annoyed by some of their character flaws

In my case, it is not that simple. Obviously, if it was just a ''slight annoyment'', it wouldn't be a problem.

There are huge expectations. Not only belief and idealogy wise, but also career wise. Being an entrepreneur is absolutely no, and school is the only way to succeed.

People are built differently. So are families. People also have very different personality types and traits. Some people need more socializing, others less. Some people have good supporting families, others have very toxic families.

Families can seem very unconditional on the surface but they can be deep down much more conditional and demanding than many friends.

You mention things like ''basic mental health (and general safety)'' and ''you're evolutionarily built to be in close contact with an entire clan/tribe, not just a few people''. These are things that can be transcended as you develop psychologically and especially spiritually. We of all people, should know.

 

27 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

You can be autonomous from your family and enjoy it at the same time, so no dilemma.

Except when your family keeps asking about your career and pressuring you to do school instead of whatever you truly want to strive for. Inevitably, conversations tend to lead to conflicts, which becomes hella annoying after a while.

It is like every time you go see your parents and they keep pressuring and asking you indirectly and directly ''so have you found anyone yet?'', ''why don't you find a girlfriend?'', ''why do you keep being single?'', ''so when are you going to have children?''

''So, when will you become the son we always wanted you to become?''

Edited December 22, 2023 by Miguel1

[UnbornTao]

@Miguel1 As everyone else with their family. Conflict seems to arise in every relationship as it is a function of opposing self-agendas.

No one said it has to be easy. Maybe use it as a training ground for increasing consciousness in this domain. Communicate, etc. 

[Carl-Richard]

34 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

In my case, it is not that simple. Obviously, if it was just a ''slight annoyment'', it wouldn't be a problem.

There are huge expectations. Not only belief and idealogy wise, but also career wise. Being an entrepreneur is absolutely no, and school is the only way to succeed.

Are you currently an entrepreneur or just planning to become one? May I ask how old you are?

Edited December 22, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Miguel1]

20 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Miguel1 As everyone else with their family. Conflict seems to arise in every relationship as it is a function of opposing self-agendas.

No one said it has to be easy. Maybe use it as a training ground for increasing consciousness in this domain. Communicate, etc. 

Of course. There is a limit to everything tho. Communication only works with people who speak the same language as you. You can make compromises but only for so much.

But I understand your point. In fact, I have addressed them quite a bit above, I believe.

 

20 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Are you currently an entrepreneur or just planning to become one? May I ask how old you are?

Yes I am and 29. Intriguing. Why do you want to know?

Edited December 23, 2023 by Miguel1

[Miguel1]

Ultimately, I strongly stand by the idea that when it comes to family, it is easy to enter the unhealthy territory of people-pleasing.

And one should be wary of that, especially if one does not have a very loving family.

[Nilsi]

8 minutes ago, Miguel1 said:

Ultimately, I strongly stand by the idea that when it comes to family, it is easy to enter the unhealthy territory of people-pleasing.

And one should be wary of that, especially if one does not have a very loving family.

Agreed.

Most people can not appreciate how toxic parents and family can be. I’m not saying it’s done in bad faith and it’s most likely trauma that’s been passed forward over generations, but if you reliably behave in toxic immature ways towards me, we’re gonna have a problem — I don’t give a fuck, if it’s your vagina I crawled out some 20 years ago.

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by Nilsi

[Yimpa]

Don’t forget that family doesn’t necessarily have to be blood relatives, unless you strictly define family as such.

How you interact with blood relatives will be different from, say, your chosen family. Just like how the fingers on your hand function and behave differently than the toes on your feet do. Nonetheless, they’re all still part of the same body. 

Maybe the family you’re identifying with is like a broken hand. Instead of giving it the love and support it needs, you’re rejecting and judging the hand for being wrong and stupid.

But, yes, sometimes it is necessary to have your foot amputated.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Yimpa