Fiat money is a scam

[StarStruck]

[bebotalk]

Where is the scam? Governments want and desire direct control of the money. The challenge is for people to prove that commodity-backed currencies achieve similar or better monetary goals. 

[Leo Gura]

I see you have discovered teenage level political philosophy.

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

3 hours ago, StarStruck said:

   Steven Crowder? Now I'm worried for your GF.😁

   First of all, what is this fiat? And why do you think it's a scam in the first place? And could you provide some articles or sources showing that fiat is a scam? Is it similar to an MLN or Ponzi scheme?

Edited December 17, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Parallax Mind]

@StarStruck

Start solely using the alternatives to fiat and you will quickly see that's it's the cleanest dirty shirt in the laundry basket. 

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck  So for others here, me included that have just heard about this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjFjd6Bs5WDAxWEU0EAHadWAyEQFnoECCEQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.investopedia.com%2Fterms%2Ff%2Ffiatmoney.asp%23%3A~%3Atext%3DKey%20Takeaways-%2CFiat%20money%20is%20a%20government%2Dissued%20currency%20that%20is%20not%2CU.S.%20dollar%2C%20are%20fiat%20currencies.&usg=AOvVaw0XUI8ubUdkRIl1H3taVn-V&opi=89978449

   So that basically explains the concept of fiat money, so, given that we have established what fiat money is, typical examples in that link, we now have grounds to discuss and even argue out whether fiat money is definitionally a scam or not.

   I'll be on the side that is in favor for fiat money.

[Parallax Mind]

9 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@StarStruck  So for others here, me included that have just heard about this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjFjd6Bs5WDAxWEU0EAHadWAyEQFnoECCEQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.investopedia.com%2Fterms%2Ff%2Ffiatmoney.asp%23%3A~%3Atext%3DKey%20Takeaways-%2CFiat%20money%20is%20a%20government%2Dissued%20currency%20that%20is%20not%2CU.S.%20dollar%2C%20are%20fiat%20currencies.&usg=AOvVaw0XUI8ubUdkRIl1H3taVn-V&opi=89978449

   So that basically explains the concept of fiat money, so, given that we have established what fiat money is, typical examples in that link, we now have grounds to discuss and even argue out whether fiat money is definitionally a scam or not.

   I'll be on the side that is in favor for fiat money.

That fiat money is a scam is not a serious argument. It's neither a scam or not a scam. It's like saying traffic lights are a scam because they make me come to a stop when I'd rather keep going.

 

[StarStruck]

Well, it is the same childish argument people use against crypto.

[vibv]

@StarStruck Money is in its current form a deeply dysfunctional system for distributing value – but still better than everything that came before.

As I see it, most of the dysfunctionality stems from the fact that we collectively seem to confuse money with value. As if generating more money would lead to greater value for society – this is blatantly wrong and the main cause for capitalistic corruption.

Edited December 17, 2023 by vibv

[Parallax Mind]

5 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Well, it is the same childish argument people use against crypto.

Alot of things are childish but some things are less so. Discerning between the two is maturity.

[Danioover9000]

@Parallax Mind

14 hours ago, Parallax Mind said:

That fiat money is a scam is not a serious argument. It's neither a scam or not a scam. It's like saying traffic lights are a scam because they make me come to a stop when I'd rather keep going.

 

   From the perspective of someone who believes fiat money is a scam, taking into account capitalism and neoliberalism as an ideology, and even feminism and egalitarianism and democracy from the west as ideologies indoctrinated and blindly believed in dogmatically, also interplaying with secularism and atheism, and the above ideologies contributing to decline in birthrates, increases in higher divorce rates, higher unemployment due to increase in A.I and automation and migrant to female workers within a given industry, corrosion of the moral backbone of a country in regards to theocratic moral frameworks, fiat money as a scam isn't that far fetched if the basis of fiat money is 'blind belief and faith in paper money itself and the belief of governments regulating that paper money itself' in comparison to currency back then based on the rarity of gold and silver. After all, what's stopping a more secularist government to flip flop and back peddle, and change around freedom of speech and protest rules?

[Parallax Mind]

12 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Parallax Mind

   From the perspective of someone who believes fiat money is a scam, taking into account capitalism and neoliberalism as an ideology, and even feminism and egalitarianism and democracy from the west as ideologies indoctrinated and blindly believed in dogmatically, also interplaying with secularism and atheism, and the above ideologies contributing to decline in birthrates, increases in higher divorce rates, higher unemployment due to increase in A.I and automation and migrant to female workers within a given industry, corrosion of the moral backbone of a country in regards to theocratic moral frameworks, fiat money as a scam isn't that far fetched if the basis of fiat money is 'blind belief and faith in paper money itself and the belief of governments regulating that paper money itself' in comparison to currency back then based on the rarity of gold and silver. After all, what's stopping a more secularist government to flip flop and back peddle, and change around freedom of speech and protest rules?

No offense, but what did this even mean? I know you are honestly trying to discuss issues but I just can't see a comment like this as anything but word salad. 

What does feminism have anything to with fiat money being a scam? Other than it being a set of beliefs or something? (Again not sure what you are trying to say). 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Parallax Mind

[Consept]

I wrote this 2 and half years ago in the height of bitcoin being valued at over 50k. I've eased up a bit on bitcoin, although I probably wouldn't invest in it I get why others do, however most other if not all other crypto is pretty much a scam in my opinion. Also if you had invested I  bitcoin when I wrote the post you would've lost a little bit but most likely you would've sold at some point at a loss when it started dropping. 

 

 

[Devin]

It's essentially just a tax voucher. Essentially is from someone providing goods and services to a government for this tax voucher, that the citizens can then use to pay their taxes, it just also gets used in commerce due to convenience and efficiency. It does fluctuate via printing more, which is essentially a tax via inflation onto everyone, they can also destroy money for the opposite effect.

[bebotalk]

Let's entertain then that fiat money is bad. OK, what's the alternative? gold-back currencies? 

it's fine to dismiss a current system. But not without presenting an alternative that wold work better than the orthodoxy. 

Moreover, scam denotes deceit. Where is the deceit in fiat money? 

[Devin]

The value of anything is 'made up', gold or paper money, value of a house or cleaning a house, and the values are constantly changing, a 1997 gateway pc was quite expensive and worthless now, gold is inflated to a fiat currency actually.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Devin

[Consept]

10 minutes ago, Devin said:

The value of anything is 'made up', gold or paper money, value of a house or cleaning a house, and the values are constantly changing, a 1997 gateway pc was quite expensive and worthless now, gold is inflated to a fiat currency actually.

Value is just what someone's willing to pay for something and fiat currency is just a way to use tokens to to measure value. Its used that we don't have to barter a 100 times swapping things until we get what we want. 

The only thing this token needs to be is trusted by everyone that uses it and something that itself remains relatively stable. The reason why there are central organisations in charge of it is because decentralisation can lead to scams, theft, unstable currency which we've seen all of with crypto. If you got scammed in the past with a ponzi scheme, with fiat you'd more than likely get your money back as banks will try and protect you, with crypto if you lose it, there's no one to run to. 

That being said there are of course pros and cons of both crypto and fiat, however crypto would need to have some features of a centralised currency such as protection. 

[Sucuk Ekmek]

3 hours ago, Devin said:

 gold is inflated to a fiat currency actually.

All the phscial  gold in the world is already sold. Like 100 times. We are looking the price of digital gold the one you can't touch, noone knows the real value of phscial gold. When shit hits the fan it would be too late to own  phscial gold for any amount of fiat currency.

[Israfil]

4 hours ago, Consept said:

The only thing this token needs to be is trusted by everyone that uses it and something that itself remains relatively stable. The reason why there are central organisations in charge of it is because decentralisation can lead to scams, theft, unstable currency which we've seen all of with crypto. If you got scammed in the past with a ponzi scheme, with fiat you'd more than likely get your money back as banks will try and protect you, with crypto if you lose it, there's no one to run to. 

 

This is also why, even gold/silver is a "scam" if you think deeply enough. You receive a piece of metal in exchange for a piece of your time or other materials in the hope that the next person you meet will agree to do the same, presumably bearing the same hope as you do.

 In that sense, money is the most successful pyramid in history.

[Consept]

1 hour ago, Israfil said:

This is also why, even gold/silver is a "scam" if you think deeply enough. You receive a piece of metal in exchange for a piece of your time or other materials in the hope that the next person you meet will agree to do the same, presumably bearing the same hope as you do.

 In that sense, money is the most successful pyramid in history.

Youre not 'hoping' that someone will also value whatever trinket youre given in exchange for work, thats the whole point of a centralised currency, its backed by the goverment and you are assured of its value. This is just a necessary mechanism for trade its not a pyramid scheme. 

The scams come in when something (crypto, tulips, dotcoms) of no agreed value or government backing, are pumped up to have value that they don't actually have and then those who own these valueless entities sell it to people who now believe its valuable. Crypto and nfts are a perfect example as they have no value as they aren't something physical so the value is in the speculation that they could be a currency but many factors prevent it from being a better alternative than centralised currency. In many cases those who start these altcoins know that it's not going to replace currency so they are outright scamming people. 

Money can't really be a scam because it's inflation is tracked and its not an investment its just a way for something to hold value for you so that you dont get scammed.