Questions And Notes On Understanding Karma

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Revolutionary Think said:

@Leo Gura I'm also wondering if enlightened people would save others from concentration camps if they had the chance or if the whole no good no evil paradigm would make them complacent and say that suffering, pain and fear is all a part of life so what's happening isn't good or bad it just is so there is no need for me to do anything. Again I might be thinking of this from a selfish ego perspective but, I guess until I can have an ego less experience I worry about these things. 

It would be no different than regular people. Some would care about it a lot and want to save, others would not.

It's not going to be of the kind of black-and-white importance that it is for regular folks who like to get morally outraged. Although, keep in mind, that regular folks -- the ones who like to get morally outraged -- are the ones who stood by and watched concentration camps happen. So make sure you're keeping it in perspective.

An enlightened person knows it's not up to them what happens. You have no personal say in how the universe unfolds. It's not even up to you to decide if you will care or not. Let alone control how mass social systems function to commit atrocities. And in fighting the atrocity, you commit more atrocity. So who's to say... The whole thing is a game.

[Revolutionary Think]

I guess the best way to look at it is that enlightenment is a state of mind rather than a set of dictates that a person has to live their life by. If you were a friendly person before enlightenment you'd be a friendly person after and if you were a grumpy person before enlightenment you'd still be that grumpy person. Or maybe a better way to think about it is that you'd most likely have the same personality and know you didn't exist instead of having that personality and thinking you existed... I'm kinda confused but, I'll get the hang of it. 

[Guest username]

@Revolutionary Think  Enlightenment is not a state of mind.

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by username

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, John Flores said:

Hitler knew he was evil

Where did you get this silly idea?

YOU project that Hitler was evil. YOU! YOU! YOU! It's all you buddy.

Objectively speaking, Hitler was no more evil than a daffodil standing in a meadow.

The only difference is that your mind happens to prefer one over the other. And how fickle the mind is. It could have easily settled on the opposite side of that issue, as it did in tens of millions of cases.

Watch out for your judgments and projections.

God did not disagree with Hitler. God WAS Hitler! God agrees with everything 100%. That's is God's infinite love.

BTW, you are Hitler. The only hatred there is, is self-hatred. The only love there is, is self-love. Hatred is just unconscious love.

[Arkandeus]

4 hours ago, unknownworld said:

I want to know, how did you verify or find this out? What experience led you to believe in this? 

Buddhists don't believe in this, as Buddha found no evidence for an existence of a individual, seperate soul.

It seems contradictory, because a belief in an individual, seperate soul seems like another illusion of a seperate self.

Separate no, we are our souls, the illusion of separation is our ''memory gap'' and in order to awaken and remember we need to be open-minded and open-hearted. 
Open to new knowledge, for that we have to be able to be in a humble state of not-knowing. 
Open to love, for that we have to be able to trust in the infinite intelligence of the universe, that everything is unfolding perfectly right as it should for you and me, so there can only be love with peace in the present, no conflict. 

For me this knowledge is streamed down through my personal experiences and my various spiritual teachers. 

Perhaps you mean that the Buddhists believe that we are all one?
I do believe in that, that on the highest vibrational dimension we are all one, we are the universe.
But I do believe on other dimensional levels we all branch off as individual souls with an unique essence in order to explore and express infinity. 
I don't believe one or the other to be exclusive, everything is happening now. 

 

[Arkandeus]

1 hour ago, unknownworld said:

Thank you for explaining. When you say personal experiences, are you referring to psychedelics (such as 5-meo)?

The Buddhists don't have attman, nor do they have reincarnation. They do have rebirth, which is different.Buddhism, modern neuroscience, and some spiritual teachers say that there is no self in the first place, that a self is an illusion. It is all one, without a solid eternal essence residing in anything or anyone.

I believe that your understanding is mostly conceptual. The keyword here is "belief". Any belief of who you are or any concept, is illusory or very far from the truth, because it is something that cannot be understood by the mind. When you say, "we are souls", you are already making nothing into a concept. Individual souls, already implies seperate self, which seems like another illusion of self. 

I believe in the self, a soul identity that is not separate from everything else as different branches on a tree growing in their own individual directions they are not 'separate' from the tree and the other branches. 

for me the truth is like a crystal with many facets, it's not solid or static, the truth is as infinite as the universe. 
it may benefit one to believe that we are all ''one'' and that there is no separation if one wants to tune in with the highest vibration, the one of being '''one with everything''. Then that truth is guiding them higher, towards that place.  That may the focus of Buddhism, just to reach that dimension where we're all ''one''. 

But one truth is not exclusive of the other. 
Feeling separated from the universe, feeling like a physical body in a foreign environment is also a real experience for me,it is also the truth otherwise it could not be experienced.  And for those who wish to keep experiencing this ''dimension'' of being a body in a foreign universe they shall keep hanging on to that truth.  
I guess the ''truth'' is for me a malleable tool with which we guide our awareness to different dimensions of existence and vibration. 

But no ''truth'' is better then the other, everything is perfect as it is, everything that exists is valid. Whether it's to feel as one with the universe or not.
that's my personal take on it
 

How I came to this point is a mix of my experiences with psychedelics and without, by learning from various teachers and my own intuition.
But at this point I couldn't really tell you exactly why I view the world in the way I do, I cannot think or rationalize my viewpoints anymore because for me these are matters the conscious mind cannot grasp, and so it cannot be explained anymore, I can only share some ''guidance'' and my vibration.

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Arkandeus

[Arkandeus]

8 minutes ago, unknownworld said:

The focus of Buddhism, is that all the suffering comes from the illusion of self. As long as you feel and believe you are a separate entity, you will suffer. If you read Leo's practical guide to enlightenment, he talks about self inquiry, and what enlightenment is - realization that you are nothing/god/universe, and not a separate entity that you talk about.

My opinion:

When you experience the truth(such as a breakthrough with 5-meo), you will see that it is absolute, and not relative as you say. Yes it is exclusive. Feeling separated from the universe, is real, but illusory experience. I also noticed that a lot of what you say, comes from a "belief". Anything based on "belief", weather it comes from you, or teacher, without direct experience of backing it up, is illusory.

You should be able to, have a method, that would allow you to verify your beliefs, with direct experience. Weather its psychedelics, meditation, etc, you should be able to arrive and experience the truth directly. If you just hold a belief, and don't use critical thinking, you will end up in a trap. At the end of the day, you can't know the truth, because you ARE the truth.

this was a good conversation, thank you for your input

[Bodhi123]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Objectively speaking, Hitler was no more evil than a daffodil standing in a meadow.

I think this shows a fundamental flaw in your understanding. You think that Source is indifferent. I disagree.

I know I'm not going to change your opinion and you are not going to change my mine.