Why we feel shame ?

[matoriii]

I dont need you to say to me that i need to act as if i didnt feel something . I want to understand the thought pattern behind emotions .

Example

I go on a date , and the girl pays i have fun with it jokearound and still feel confident . WHILE my friends would feel shame,unworthiness , hate toward themselves . Also some guys joke around and have fun even though they are fat (they show of they stomach) , WHILE THE SAME OTHER GUY feels unworthy , unlovable , miserable . Whats the thought pattern behind it ??

[Thought Art]

People have their own unique criteria of what is good. Shame and guilt can be relative depending on people’s experiences, genes etc,

Peoples beliefs about themselves, their ability to be vulnerable, etc 

There is a difference between toxic and healthy shame as well. I will review my notes on this eventually. 

[gettoefl]

shame is i dread the world's judgement being heaped at my feet

i refuse to let you know who i am really am, instead i will pretend that what you say is right 

shame is me caving in to your values and feeling bad at the abject weakling i reveal myself to be

poor little me

[Thought Art]

Healing The Shame That Binds You - John Bradshaw

 

Everyone needs a sense of shame,
but no one needs to feel ashamed.

―Frederick Nietzsche

Edited December 16, 2023 by Thought Art

[matoriii]

@gettoefl  i solved this a year ago and that it was me hating parts of myself (images of myself) like lets say you are scared of lets say getting rejected its you getting scared of your super ego thats giving you the sense that you are bad . Even when you look at it i think nobody can give you shame except you even when other people judge you i think its you judging that self image and thats why . Also i sensed that when you feel worthy , good enough how ever you are gonna call it and dont need others validation its like other people are obligated to react good . Idk i am kinda confused with all of my learning till now and wanted to see peoples opinion or someone who really understands it . I think shame is coming from your super ego and fear (if not connected to death ) is also you fearing shame and that inner parent not loving you . Hope to hear more opinions thanks tho .

[Schizophonia]

Because we are afraid of being abandoned.

[Carl-Richard]

Shame is an emotion that arises as a result of a conscious recognition of conflict between your behavior and a standard of behavior (e.g. internal moral ideals or external social expectations).

Edited December 17, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Shame is an emotion that arises as a result of a conscious recognition of a conflict between your behavior and a standard of behavior (e.g. internal moral ideals or external social expectations).

Ah; I like to purposefully do something that will cause that conflict to arise and to accept any outcome.

[Carl-Richard]

26 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Ah; I like to purposefully do something that will cause that conflict to arise and to accept any outcome.

Shame on you!  Jk  

Edited December 16, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[MysticalSnow]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Shame is an emotion that arises as a result of a conscious recognition of a conflict between your behavior and a standard of behavior (e.g. internal moral ideals or external social expectations).

I don't think fat people should be ashamed of it. I don't think they should accept being fat either.

Shame is self-suppressing, uncomfortable, gross negativity that comes from you being constrained to a particular frame of reality or experience of reality. The best way to escape your reality being more limited than you want it to be is alter your consciousness and perception.

[Yimpa]

25 minutes ago, MysticalSnow said:

I don't think fat people should be ashamed of it. I don't think they should accept being fat either.

You can literally replace the word “fat” with any other characteristic. Skinny, Black, short, beautiful, etc. etc.

I don’t accept myopically labeling myself with such hyper obsessive ideals. Zooming out is key. 
 

The crazy thing is you can even look at one characteristic and zoom out of that one characteristic. It’s bananas!!! 🍌 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Yimpa

[MysticalSnow]

38 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You can literally replace the word “fat” with any other characteristic. Skinny, Black, short, beautiful, etc. etc.

No.

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, MysticalSnow said:

No.

Hit it right on the nail. No person should be ashamed of themselves. In conclusion, no person will accept themselves for being __________ < (insert characteristic); GOD will.

[MysticalSnow]

50 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Hit it right on the nail. No person should be ashamed of themselves. In conclusion, no person will accept themselves for being __________ < (insert characteristic); GOD will.

This is interesting, but I still know beauty is pretty acceptable.

Were you raised as a Christian? That might be affecting your conception of God.

But if you mean it as total ego annihilation + the Divine working through you, being you, accepting you then I agree with you.

[Basman]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Shame is an emotion that arises as a result of a conscious recognition of a conflict between your behavior and a standard of behavior (e.g. internal moral ideals or external social expectations).

This is a great definition.

I don't think shame is inherently bad. It serves an important function of helping you integrate with you community. If you for example make a tasteless joke during a funeral then you should feel ashamed. The pain is letting you know you failed as a person and that you need to learn and do better.

Of course it can be maladaptive if you are ashamed of things you shouldn't be ashamed of. Maybe you lack good role models who could show you the way in your life.

[Thought Art]

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Shame is an emotion that arises as a result of a conscious recognition of a conflict between your behavior and a standard of behavior (e.g. internal moral ideals or external social expectations).

I like this. 
 

Ive read that a distinction between shame and guilt it…

Guilt is about what you did

Shame is about who you are

[not-a-faerie]

Often emotions are guided by your thoughts and perspectives, 

[Yimpa]

12 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Shame on you!  Jk  

I failed science class in 7th grade. My teacher got really upset with me and thought I didn’t care.. that is, until she realized that I was genuinely struggling. 

The next year, she took the time to personally help me after school with a science project. I went from an F (failure) to a C (average) in 8th grade and was awarded most improved science student that year. She even personally handed me the award in front of the whole class!

I didn’t appreciate it as much then; I even felt shame that I could even accept such an award. However, I certainly appreciate it a ton more now

[UnbornTao]

You tell us.

One essential element of shame is relation to the past. It occurs relative to a past occurrence.

[Salvijus]

Guilt/shame/unworthyness/self-judgement is an act of whipping yourself. Caused by the belief that some part of you has no right to exist.

The reason some people feel guilt and others don't. Because it's entirely your choice to whip yourself or not. 

The whip is in your hands. You can whip others with your judgement. Or you can whip yourself. Or you can put the whip of judgement down, laugh and enjoy life like a sane person. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Salvijus