Another way to define Enlightment

[Javfly33]

This is just an insight...maybe IS a dumb one...

But what if could we define enlightment as puré Experience or Perception without:

• Thoughts
• Ideas
• Emotions
• Physical sensations
• Projections
• Concepts
• Feelings

Basically removing all that Filters your Perception...

Of course...you can not drive, operate machinery or do work with this. So this kind of enlighment would be a kind of "Holidays" or "vacation".

Everyone enjoys some holidays days some once in a while 😃🤣you can not deny that.

Enlighment or not...im sure tickets would be sold in a day if this could be marketed to the human machine.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Javfly33

[Yimpa]

God does all of that, and more (and less), Perfectly. 

[Javfly33]

15 hours ago, Yimpa said:

God does all of that, and more (and less), Perfectly. 

who is god and where is it doing it?

[Leo Gura]

15 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

we define enlightment as puré Experience or Perception without:

• Thoughts
• Ideas
• Emotions
• Projections
• Concepts

Basically removing all that Filters your Perception...

That's not Awakening, that's called being a donkey.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Javfly33]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not Awakening, that's called being a donkey.

You are assuming I am talking about a no-mind Zen state. 

You haven´t explored enough states. 

[Inliytened1]

15 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

This is just an insight...maybe IS a dumb one...

But what if could we define enlightment as puré Experience or Perception without:

• Thoughts
• Ideas
• Emotions
• Physical sensations
• Projections
• Concepts
• Feelings

Basically removing all that Filters your Perception...

Of course...you can not drive, operate machinery or do work with this. So this kind of enlighment would be a kind of "Holidays" or "vacation".

Everyone enjoys some holidays days some once in a while 😃🤣you can not deny that.

Enlighment or not...im sure tickets would be sold in a day if this could be marketed to the human machine.

Why would awakening exclude these things?  God wouldn't shun sensations.   It's all about feeling itself.   You might say it masturbates to itself.  Over and over.   Just in different ways. 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

19 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

This is just an insight...maybe IS a dumb one...

But what if could we define enlightment as puré Experience or Perception without:

• Thoughts
• Ideas
• Emotions
• Physical sensations
• Projections
• Concepts
• Feelings

Newsflash: You can't have an experience when there is nothing to experience.

Hope that wasn't too condescending.

[Carl-Richard]

19 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

This is just an insight...maybe IS a dumb one...

But what if could we define enlightment as puré Experience or Perception without:

• Thoughts
• Ideas
• Emotions
• Physical sensations
• Projections
• Concepts
• Feelings

I would put it as a "change" that both subsumes and transcends these things. For example, enlightenment is not merely a change in thought or perception. It's a change ("change") in consciousness.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I would put it as a "change" that both subsumes and transcends these things. For example, enlightenment is not merely a change in thought or perception. It's a change ("change") in consciousness.

More than a change it is the dissolution of limitations. The human mind is a limiter that only lets through what makes the individual an individual. If there were no limitation, there would be no individual, no time, no experience. What we call enlightenment is the dissolution of limitations to a certain extent and at certain moments

[Carl-Richard]

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

More than a change it is the dissolution of limitations. The human mind is a limiter that only lets through what makes the individual an individual. If there were no limitation, there would be no individual, no time, no experience. What we call enlightenment is the dissolution of limitations to a certain extent and at certain moments

But you don't literally dissolve your human body or mind. The limitations are still there, but you've opened yourself to a larger context (a limitless one). That is why I think "being awake within the dream" is a brilliant pointer. Your dream doesn't end just because you started lucid dreaming. You still have your dream body and dream mind.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

Becoming directly conscious of what's absolutely true now.

Knowing what you are doesn't make you stupid, which is to say you can do what you could do before, like driving a car, etc.

Do not presume what that is. Leave it as an open question.

Edited December 17, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Javfly33]

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

But you don't literally dissolve your human body or mind. The limitations are still there, but you've opened yourself to a larger context (a limitless one). That is why I think "being awake within the dream" is a brilliant pointer. Your dream doesn't end just because you started lucid dreaming. You still have your dream body and dream mind.

I could be wrong, but i think people here are assuming you "have to" have physical sensations of your body While maintaining/resing a human body, this IS incorrect.

There is a reason why there is such a tremendous work in the field yoga to make the body as 'light' and effortless to carry.

If suddenly the body is not a burden and dissappears as a part of your awareness, reality becomes an endless joy to admire and experience.

But i know, i know... enough with my bs...

...in this forum are not interested in joy or pleasure!!! Are interested in A-W-A-K-E-N-I-N-G 🤫 

23 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

You still have your dream body

You can leave it and visit. Just like you park a car. Ive done It. Just for a few seconds though. More than that and 'reality' might reclaim It as something with no owner and take It back 😄

Edited December 16, 2023 by UnbornTao
Corrected user mention

[Javfly33]

17 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

No. It isn't a state nor a change and it's what's absolutely true now. Doesn't make you stupid, 

 

What you guys assume Direct Perception withouth mind filter makes you stupid ? 🤯

21 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

God wouldn't shun sensations.   

So now God has actually a bible of "wouldnt's"? 

What the fuck man?? 😃

Edited December 16, 2023 by Javfly33

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

I could be wrong, but i think people here are assuming you "have to" have physical sensations of your body While maintaining/resing a human body, this IS incorrect.

True. That's called being deaf, blind, mute and quadriplegic.

[UnbornTao]

10 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

What you guys assume Direct Perception withouth mind filter makes you stupid ? 🤯

That isn't enlightenment, but getting clear on what something is doesn't mean you forget how to recreate it. You might have implied that understanding such distinctions (thoughts, emotions) as in "enlightenment" would make you unable to drive, etc, as you'd be operating without them so to speak. You can experiment with experiencing without concept, but the moment stuff has to be done, you'll bring up whatever's useful for getting a job done, concepts in this case. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

You can experiment with experiencing without concept, but the moment stuff has to be done, you'll bring up whatever's useful for getting a job done, concepts in this case. 

What you said overlaps nicely with the finding that enlightenment correlates with a sustained reduction in activity of the Default Mode Network and conversely a sustained increase in activity of the task-positive network. Put simply, the enlightened individual is always "tasking", and thus they're always doing what needs to be done. No aimless rumination about the past, no anxious worries about the future, only what is relevant to the task at hand.

[UnbornTao]

22 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What you said overlaps nicely with the finding that enlightenment correlates with a sustained reduction in activity of the Default Mode Network and conversely a sustained increase in activity of the task-positive network. Put simply, the enlightened individual is always "tasking", and thus they're always doing what needs to be done. No aimless rumination about the past, no anxious worries about the future, only what is relevant to the task at hand.

I'm wondering how you would make an experiment related to enlightenment. What would you start with? What would you measure, analyze?

What are they measuring? I don't know whether it would be possible to undertake such an study, unless perhaps based on the assumption that awakening affects the brain, and then proceeding from that, analyzing brain phenomenon and such. It might as well affect the brain, but you'd be dealing with secondary phenomena. Anyway, fascinating findings.

Edited December 17, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Javfly33]

22 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

True. That's called being deaf, blind, mute and quadriplegic.

I don´t think we are on the same page here. I´m not talking about human functions. 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by Javfly33

[not-a-faerie]

I interpret the op's "lack of things" as not as in "you do not experience" but as in "you experience without these things distracting you from the core consciousness"

 

but idk maybe I'm wrong with what they're intending to say. I do that a lot. 

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, not-a-faerie said:

I interpret the op's "lack of things" as not as in "you do not experience" but as in "you experience without these things distracting you from the core consciousness"

 

but idk maybe I'm wrong with what they're intending to say. I do that a lot. 

Yeap.