I finally deciphered the idea of 'creepiness'.

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

'holding the other accountable for their feelings'. 

You cannot hold people accountable for their feelings but you CAN hold them responsible for how they ACT out that feeling.  As in angry, shoot, kill. Not angry go home and take a shower. 

[something_else]

6 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

it's your responsibility to do some shadow-work and work with that trigger, because they're your feelings'. 

Maybe you need to do some shadow work to find out why you get ‘feel’ so ‘triggered’ by women finding some men creepy.

After all, those are your feelings and therefore it is your responsibility to work with that trigger.

Edited December 18, 2023 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Sincerity said:

And You are unreachable.

This is a self-improvement forum. I don't know what You're doing here.

I thought the forum also had a commitment to truth and intellectual-honesty. 

Make it make sense. Then, I'll consider 'improvement' by your program. 

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, something_else said:

Maybe you need to do some shadow work to find out why you get ‘feel’ so ‘triggered’ by women finding some men creepy.

After all, those are your feelings and therefore it is your responsibility to work with that trigger.

This entire thread is me working with the trigger. 

The trigger for me, was that the idea didn't make sense. So, I came to the esteemed forum to see what explanations yall had. And, I have not been impressed. 

[Sincerity]

3 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I thought the forum also had a commitment to truth and intellectual-honesty. 

Well, You ain't respecting it dude...

Blind bias is not what we call commitment to truth.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Sincerity

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Sincerity said:

Well, You ain't respecting it dude...

When women say 'I feel creeped out', is that them expressing feelings, or stating facts? 

You want to earn the respect? Answer this question. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

And, I have not been impressed.

This right here shows you're only looking for supporters. Maybe you should have went to the MGTOW forums.

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Princess Arabia said:

This right here shows you're only looking for supporters. Maybe you should have went to the MGTOW forums.

No, I'm looking for answers that make logical sense. So far, they haven't made logical sense. That's the reality. 

[Sincerity]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

When women say 'I feel creeped out', is that them expressing feelings, or stating facts? 

You want to earn the respect? Answer this question. 

I don't know what tf is this question. It's feelings and it doesn't change a darn thing.

I don't need to earn your respect...

[mr_engineer]

Just now, Sincerity said:

I don't know what tf is this question. It's feelings and it doesn't change a darn thing.

I don't need to earn your respect...

Yeah. So, what I'm saying, is that if they have these feelings, it's their responsibility and they don't get to blame men for the feelings and call the man 'creepy'. And, men shouldn't have to change their behavior around women's triggers.

Does that make sense to you? Or, are you going to paint that as '@mr_engineer  not taking responsibility'?

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

No, I'm looking for answers that make logical sense. So far, they haven't made logical sense. That's the reality. 

You won't find logical answers for an emotional problem. Women don't have to use logic when dating. We feel, right or wrong. That's masculine to view dating logically. We need you guys to balance this out and vice versa. Not dictators that tells us how to feel.

[something_else]

8 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

This entire thread is me working with the trigger. 

The trigger for me, was that the idea didn't make sense. So, I came to the esteemed forum to see what explanations yall had. And, I have not been impressed. 

No, you’re just looking for people to validate your ideas. You’ll never change your mind on anything, it’s not in your nature.

Part of me wants to respect that, but you are so excessively stubborn that it is almost 100% fucking you over in some aspects of your life.

Edited December 18, 2023 by something_else

[Princess Arabia]

7 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

You want to earn the respect? Answer this question.

This is your attitude that's why women are creeped out. Just by this alone, because it carries a certain mindset and energy with it. Nobody here has to earn your respect. We're just expected to be respectful.

[Sincerity]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

Yeah. So, what I'm saying, is that if they have these feelings, it's their responsibility and they don't get to blame men for the feelings and call the man 'creepy'. And, men shouldn't have to change their behavior around women's triggers.

Does that make sense to you? Or, are you going to paint that as '@mr_engineer  not taking responsibility'?

That is true to a degree. But such a discussion with You is flawed from the very start because You're coming from a very biased place. 

For the last time: You are fighting foes in your mind. It's YOUR FEELINGS of shame (or whatever) which You're not looking at which are the motivators behind the majority of your posts here. And indeed, You are not taking responsibility.

Look how many people here (including Leo) are telling You to look at yourself. This is NOT a disservice to You, this is a blessing. You are resisting VERY HARD and kicking wildly, but for what? It's your life and You're giving it away to fight imaginary foes and blame the other...

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Then don't? 🤷‍♂️

Do you agree, then, that being 'creepy' isn't inherently bad? 

6 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

You won't find logical answers for an emotional problem. Women don't have to use logic when dating. We feel, right or wrong. That's masculine to view dating logically. We need you guys to balance this out and vice versa. Not dictators that tells us how to feel.

The judgement just doesn't make logical sense. That's all I'm saying. 

5 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Like getting laid.

Last I checked, the guys who are getting laid don't give a shit about how they come across or about others' feelings. And, this works out for them. So, if I'm not 'taking responsibility' for 'not making women feel creeped out' or I'm not agreeing with your opinions, that shouldn't hold me back with women, right?! 

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

This is your attitude that's why women are creeped out. Just by this alone, because it carries a certain mindset and energy with it. Nobody here has to earn your respect. We're just expected to be respectful.

The forum does have to live by intellectual-honesty, because it's Leo's top value. It's healthy to hold each other to this standard. 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

The forum does have to live by intellectual-honesty, because it's Leo's top value. It's healthy to hold each other to this standard.

What's this have to do with your telling someone to earn your respect by answering a question. NOTHING.

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

That is true to a degree. But such a discussion with You is flawed from the very start because You're coming from a very biased place. 

For the last time: You are fighting foes in your mind. It's YOUR FEELINGS of shame (or whatever) which You're not looking at which are the motivators behind the majority of your posts here. And indeed, You are not taking responsibility.

Look how many people here (including Leo) are telling You to look at yourself. This is NOT a disservice to You, this is a blessing. You are resisting VERY HARD and kicking wildly, but for what? It's your life and You're giving it away to fight imaginary foes and blame the other...

Buddy, I have done all of the shadow-work and the OP was the result of it. It's very insightful, if you really have a close look at it. 

The solution to the problem really is to debunk this idea of 'creepiness' altogether, using logic and facts. 

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

What's this have to do with your telling someone to earn your respect by answering a question. NOTHING.

They have to answer it in a logically sound way. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, mr_engineer said:

They have to answer it in a logically sound way. 

Dude, you're not only trying to dictate how women should feel, now you're trying to dictate how people respond to your questions and saying they have to answer it logically. Does that sound logical to you. The irony.

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Squeekytoy said:

You should deal with the world as it is, not as you want it to be. If you just want to get laid, and not giving a shit about women's triggers gets you laid, go for it. If it doesn't, then you have a choice to make.

Thank you. 

1 minute ago, Squeekytoy said:

Women ain't gonna change for you, of that you can be sure. If you wanna be all "a man this, a man that" then be a fucking man, stop whining and deal with it.

Buddy, I am dealing with it. I'm testing the integrity of your solutions here first, then if I don't like them, I'll experiment with other solutions. Relax. 

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

Dude, you're not only trying to dictate how women should feel, now you're trying to dictate how people respond to your questions and saying they have to answer it logically. Does that sound logical to you. The irony.

That's what intellectual-honesty means. You are logically sound. It is a value of the forum. 

I'm not trying to control the forum's value-system, it is Leo's biggest value here.