If God is Love, why does suffering exist?

[StarStruck]

On 12-12-2023 at 1:01 AM, Chives99 said:

Why create pain and misery and suffering? If God is all loving and loves itself, Why create problems that lead to people seeing the world as not as perfect, Is it to embrace oneself in a unlimited way even if one is suffering? why does god want to experiences these  states? Surely a god that wants to create perfect reality woldn't have suffering and misery in it?

Suffering doesn't exist.

[Sincerity]

"Suffering is a gift. In it is hidden mercy."

-- Rumi

[Yimpa]

Rumor has it that suffering is imaginary.. but not to a human.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Squeekytoy said:

Cause a human is also imaginary.

Lol...the delusions we believe.

[Vercingetorix]

Because without suffering you could not feel and appreciate the opposite of suffering - comfort, openness, expansion, relaxation.

[Princess Arabia]

42 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

You didn't get the memo?

It's inside of me. All wrapped up in Christmas paper. I'll have to open it, but at least i know where it is. Safe and sound.

[Yimpa]

Just now, Squeekytoy said:

Snugly.

I am currently snuggled under a weighted blanket. Are you stalking me 

[Yimpa]

There is no suffering when you are snuggled with you best buddy!

 

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Snuggly.

Love you.

[not-a-faerie]

I don't know if it's been said yet or what, but the stoics talk about how things can hurt you without your consent but if you let them harm you that's because of your interaction with said hurt. I think it's kind of the same with suffering. When I get a paper cut I don't call it suffering, do I? As the stoics say, harm is when you let something shake your core being. So I would say the concept of suffering is the exact same thing,

edit - what I'm saying is it's because of your willingness and expectation to be shaken by something hurt. that you suffer. You control what shakes your being.

 

though I'm sure people have other ideas worth sharing, not rejecting that of course. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by not-a-faerie

[not-a-faerie]

On 12/12/2023 at 7:05 AM, vibv said:

Wrong. Without pain and suffering it wouldn't be possible to create that level of beauty that this world entails.

how unimaginative. A god capable of making suffering and beauty like this, is capable of making beauty so complex and rich that every experience is beautiful in a unique way, give us desire and all sorts of good experiences around the pursuit of beauty, and even make it possible to never get enough of this pursuit. I play ascension the card game on repeat so frequently and there is no suffering in it yet I can't get enough of it. The game isn't boring for lack of pain.

[vibv]

3 minutes ago, not-a-faerie said:

how unimaginative. A god capable of making suffering and beauty like this, is capable of making beauty so complex and rich that every experience is beautiful in a unique way, give us desire and all sorts of good experiences around the pursuit of beauty, and even make it possible to never get enough of this pursuit. I play ascension the card game on repeat so frequently and there is no suffering in it yet I can't get enough of it. The game isn't boring for lack of pain.

Maybe there are realities without suffering. But it's definitely and irrefutably an element of this one. – and it's absolutely perfect.

Suffering is what seems to contradict Beauty and Goodness, but in the end causes it. That's the beauty of it.

Or as it is said in Faust as an answer to "What is the devil?":
"Part of that Power, not understood,
Which always wills the Bad, and always works the Good."

[vibv]

Just now, Squeekytoy said:

I wouldn't pretend to make it into this noble thing. 

It's not noble to wallow in it. But it's often the best teacher.

[vibv]

6 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

When prevention is an option, take it.

Of course. Although... not always. What about leaving ones comfort zone?

I see in retrospect that the moments I suffered the most lead to the highest amount of beauty in the end.

[Ishanga]

If One is going via the Religious route, where they adapt and attach a belief system to their identity, one that says there is a supreme entity in another place or realm that loves You and created everything, and then You here on earth witnessing suffering everyday in Your own life and around the world as well, then Yeah of course we have to ask why a God like this would allow suffering to happen. I myself wonder how anyone could adopt a belief system with this set up and buy into it when the majority of the ppl on this planet are suffering on some level, some less some more. In fundamental terms it is us that is causing firstly our own internal suffering, and via that we spread it to others around us, those in power do the same but have much higher consequences, as every decision they make affects millions of people, so if they are experiencing suffering within themselves it is bound to spread globally. If one is on the Spiritual path, then all responsibility (your ability to respond) is your own, you realize you are causing your own suffering, pain is inevitable, but suffering is not, so its vital that to stop this trend of suffering and make ourselves into what we want to be, and learn to control how we want to experience life, joyfully or miserably, that is our free will in action...Start with Yourself, stop putting the responsibility on some God that doesn't exist, and make yourself into what you want to see in this world..

[vibv]

8 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

I don't mean be squeamish about it. Just don't go looking to suffer for its own sake like a dumbass indian yogi.

There are times when it can't be helped, but you don't do it because suffering is so great.

You're absolutely right. But it's also kind of a conundrum. Always evading suffering can't be the right thing, either. The truth must lie somewhere between those.

9 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Whatever floats your boat. No issue with kinky stuff. 

[vibv]

Just now, Squeekytoy said:

No, the truth is there's nothing noble about suffering but sometimes it can't be helped. 🤷‍♂️

Hm. I don't think I'd agree completely. On the surface you're right, it's kind of a trap to declare suffering as something to strive for. But on the other hand I think Truth, Beauty and Love is veiled behind a curtain of suffering.

[Parallax Mind]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:01 PM, Chives99 said:

Why create pain and misery and suffering? If God is all loving and loves itself, Why create problems that lead to people seeing the world as not as perfect, Is it to embrace oneself in a unlimited way even if one is suffering? why does god want to experiences these  states? Surely a god that wants to create perfect reality woldn't have suffering and misery in it?

Read/listen to Leo's highly recommended book "Conversations with God"

[Parallax Mind]

On 11/12/2023 at 7:01 PM, Chives99 said:

Why create pain and misery and suffering? If God is all loving and loves itself, Why create problems that lead to people seeing the world as not as perfect, Is it to embrace oneself in a unlimited way even if one is suffering? why does god want to experiences these  states? Surely a god that wants to create perfect reality woldn't have suffering and misery in it?

Read/listen to Leo's highly recommended book "Conversations with God"

[vibv]

3 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Yes and for a very specific reason. And it's not nobility, lol.

I didn't claim so.

It's not about the suffering, it's about going beyond suffering, and for that you need to go directly through it.