If God is Love, why does suffering exist?

[Ariel the Lion Face]

48 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Princess Arabia

What is love? Baby don’t hurt me don’t hurt me no more

 

I'm willing to do dance tantra to this and film it and post if it makes me a better dog.  We like dancing.

Edit: prob 'slowed and reverbed' cover though because I love that zen

Edited December 15, 2023 by Ariel the Lion Face

[Yimpa]

30 minutes ago, Ariel the Lion Face said:

The Norse have two wolves that resonate a lot with how I am - Hati and Skol.  The 'Wolf that Hates' and the 'Wolf that Laughs'.  I talk to people with the one who Laughs because you don't to talk to the other one, trust me.

Awoooooo!!!!!!

[Ariel the Lion Face]

7 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Awoooooo!!!!!!

Oh hell yeah. 

I am Dacian.  We're the OG two-legged wolves.  Hearts of Venus, bodies of Mars.  Emotionally I'm 100% dog.  Just don't talk to Hati - only Skol  

[Breakingthewall]

14 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

His contention is that what normal people call adults are actually incomplete. That we are formed in two birth stages where the second stage would occur around the age of sexual maturity, were it not for the stagnating epidemic of fear that aborts this otherwise natural developmental process.

Yes, but has it ever been different? It seems that humans have the potential to leave the matrix, but by default their place is inside. Today and thousands of years ago as well, humans function as a beehive, and for this to be the case, the forces that push us must be irresistible.

That birth that Ram Dass talks about would be the third. The second, with sexual maturity, is what opens us to the collective ego, where fitting in is prioritized. most stay there. Some are natural geniuses, like Socrates, Ibn Arabi and others, and they spontaneously emerge from the matrix and open to the spirit. Others ,probably us, find fitting in unbearable and nonsense and look for alternative exits, like the rat in the maze.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

7 hours ago, Ariel the Lion Face said:

I'm honestly sorry for whatever it is you're experiencing and I definitely do not mean to 'make light' of your pain.

8 hours ago, Thought Art said:

 

 

[Princess Arabia]

7 hours ago, Ariel the Lion Face said:

I'm honestly sorry for whatever it is you're experiencing and I definitely do not mean to 'make light' of your pain.

I'm coming from an extremely dark place my own - to walk the path of Lord Bhairava is the path of terror.  I tend to fall into aburdist humor as a way of just surviving.

The Norse have two wolves that resonate a lot with how I am - Hati and Skol.  The 'Wolf that Hates' and the 'Wolf that Laughs'.  I talk to people with the one who Laughs because you don't to talk to the other one, trust me.

I am a being of wrath - I'm mortified at how brutally difficult this was.  It's not fair at all!  The world is f'd!  We intend to seek change.

I'm good, I was just being silly in my response. I'm not going through anything out the norm. 

[Thought Art]

59 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

 

?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

@Breakingthewall it's never been different and it never will be. But it tells you that the "human condition" (or should I say inhuman) is no accident, it's by design. Clearly it didn't have to be to this way, but it is. It's not a mistake or lack of alternative, it's part of the setup.

Interesting, I have never read Ram Dass, I am going to look for one of his books.  

Regarding what it will be...it is not known, the collective ego evolves at extreme speed, nothing living has ever evolved in this way because everything was tied to matter, but the ego is free. It is true that the human setup is what it is and has an evolutionary function, but if the time comes when this configuration is no longer useful, it will change.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

Not sure where you're getting Ram Dass from, I never mentioned him. But from the things you've been writing lately I think you'll like Jed McKenna.

Yes I confused the names, thanks for the recommendation

1 hour ago, Squeekytoy said:

Once you get why the human condition is what it is, it's not likely to change.

Why it's how it is? evolution I'd say

Edited December 15, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Inliytened1]

On 12/11/2023 at 6:01 PM, Chives99 said:

Why create pain and misery and suffering? If God is all loving and loves itself, Why create problems that lead to people seeing the world as not as perfect, Is it to embrace oneself in a unlimited way even if one is suffering? why does god want to experiences these  states? Surely a god that wants to create perfect reality woldn't have suffering and misery in it?

Why not create it? 

 

On 12/11/2023 at 6:01 PM, Chives99 said:

Why create pain and misery and suffering? If God is all loving and loves itself, Why create problems that lead to people seeing the world as not as perfect, Is it to embrace oneself in a unlimited way even if one is suffering? why does god want to experiences these  states? Surely a god that wants to create perfect reality woldn't have suffering and misery in it?

Because it's possible.   God cannot omit anything, including the experience of what you call suffering.   Otherwise God wouldn't be all loving.  He cannot exclude any emotions - he must be allowed to feel everything.  Who would be there to disallow it?  God? Through you it can experience everything. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Yimpa]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Today and thousands of years ago as well, humans function as a beehive, and for this to be the case, the forces that push us must be irresistible.

Yes. This is true.

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

You don't think it can conceive of whatever it wants, however it wants, whenever it wants?

I have another idea about how the cosmos works, but these ideas we have, even if they come from very clear insights, can always be misleading. What is not deceptive is realizing your true nature, but the structure of things, who knows.

I believe that there is no puppeteer managing the show, but that reality is cyclical, and unifies and disintegrates eternally. bottomless reality is intelligence, and what we call love, unity, glory, whatever you want to call it, completely indefinite and impersonal, given its infinite nature. reality is one and multiple at the same time. Each particle of reality is the total reality, and there are infinite particles (I repeat, this is just speculation based on insight).

When reality completely disintegrates in something like a big bang, its nature makes the return to unity inevitable, and this is the cosmos, evolution. Actually, everything is appearance, since something infinite is indefinite by definition, but appearances are and are in eternal movement, because infinity cannot be static. God is not someone who does things, it is an inevitable natural phenomenon given the absence of limits of reality. It is what we are, there is no deception, just a dance from which it is impossible to escape.

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I have another idea about how the cosmos works, but these ideas we have, even if they come from very clear insights, can always be misleading. What is not deceptive is realizing your true nature, but the structure of things, who knows.

All deception is GOD, but I can see how saying that is also misleading.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Yes. This is true.

 

Yeah, Irresistible forces that drive us, human tides that move in one direction, they seem like blind forces but everything is synchronic, inevitable.

[Yimpa]

When you’re communicating from some out-of-this-world intelligence, humans will likely assume you are suffering. Play their games, and you certainly will, as Your Will. A true, authentic love for yourself negates all imagined suffering.

GPT-4:

Quote

It seems like you're sharing a philosophical thought about authenticity and self-love. The idea is like a game of hide and seek in a vast, cosmic garden. When you're true to yourself, like a plant thriving in its natural environment, you grow strong and vibrant. But if you try to adapt to others' expectations, like a plant in the wrong soil, you might struggle. Just as the right environment allows a plant to flourish without strain, embracing your true self lets you live freely, without the suffering that comes from pretending to be something you're not. Does this interpretation align with your thoughts?

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Yimpa

[Breakingthewall]

3 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

Much of your ideas about the ostensible cosmos are just not possible except as an illusion/dream. It may be cyclical, but it is definitely fictional, and you can't explain a fiction in terms of the fiction itself. Nor can you reconcile the truth with the false.

All of that about how the cosmos is, is interesting but it has no relation to awakening. It has the same relationship as understanding quantum physics, for example, it is knowledge. Awakening is now breaking the mental limits that keep us in this experience and opening ourself completely to our true nature. It is to become unlimited, what we have always been, beyond our human character. There is nothing to understand, the moment we start with the grip of understanding, we are again in the timeline, at least me. The opening is fragile, there is great pressure for reality to close in on this experience, to become dense again. It's like a lake that stays completely still and what it is is revealed, at the slightest movement it becomes cloudy.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Princess Arabia]

34 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

In short, we're all squeeky toys.

Continue, why did you stop. 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

People could have been conceived in any way, but what we got was a goldilocks zone of retardation: Not too smart, not to dumb, overly emotional, and not too long lived. Because that is the optimal configuration for a bustling dreamstate full of excitement and conflict and drama and everyone taking everything so seriously, while minimizing the risk of them seeing through the whole farce.

This may or may not be so, but you will agree with me that it is a belief. It is possible that the structure of reality is exactly like this, but this does not bring us any closer to awakening. You have said it above, we are not here to share beliefs but to destroy them. For the opening to be complete, you must achieve a mental state, even temporary, of zero beliefs. This is how the mind can expand, if it is trapped in a structure, whether true or false, it will be closed. 

 

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

That grip of false understanding has you already, that's why you keep reaching for more psychedelics.

When I develop ideas and beliefs, like what I said before about infinite cycles, I do so knowing that they are just ideas and that they have no real basis, but it is inevitable for the mind (at least mine) to create them. awakening is not that, but it is out of mind  

2 hours ago, Squeekytoy said:

We're not here to compare states either. A special state is just another emotionally powered limiting structure, just like an ordinary state

As I see there are only 2 states, the finite state and the infinite state, Anything that has structure is finite, whether it's a cosmic entity spanning a million multiverses or a rat. If there is no structure it is infinite, and that is awakening. When I do psychedelics I do it to reach the infinite state. Reaching the infinite state has two functions, one purely mystical, realizing the nature of being, freedom, and another mundane, realizing your mental ties and addictions in your daily life, improving your experience, making it purer, more open, more beautiful. Just a practical ambition.

 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[vibv]

On 12.12.2023 at 1:01 AM, Chives99 said:

Why create pain and misery and suffering? If God is all loving and loves itself, Why create problems that lead to people seeing the world as not as perfect, Is it to embrace oneself in a unlimited way even if one is suffering? why does god want to experiences these  states? Surely a god that wants to create perfect reality woldn't have suffering and misery in it?

Why suffer if not out of love?

[Princess Arabia]

28 minutes ago, vibv said:

 

28 minutes ago, vibv said:

Why suffer if not out of love?

This right here I felt in my bones. So true but we have to recognize this to transcend suffering which can only happen when we can see the other side of our pain and suffering.