Is zen practice worth it, when it comes to enlightenment (as an extra to psychedelics

[funkychunkymonkey]

I get a lot of conflicting views! very confusing. i have not yet had a satori experience from practice but i have had it on psychedelics. As a means of raising ones baseline of consciousness and/ or seeking this quietting of the mind/ no mind / emptiness / realization / satori, whatever, is zazen actually worth pursuing? I do go to a sangah and i do hear A LOT of filler information and rituals that simply have nothing to do with enlightenment (and quite frankly dogmas). The practice of zazen is really all i care about but i cant help but question its... Reliability for awakening? 

 

Any advice on matters of meditation are welcomed. i did practice kriya yoga but i simply dont enjoy the process i find it boring and have a hard time motivating myself to do the practices. i have had some experiences from it (kundalini surges, sounds, colors ETC) 

Self inquiry is something i try but again struggle to keep up with (maybe its a ego defense.... probably is) 

anyways im just  a rookie with all this stuff. Exploring the spiritual seven seas with my spritual sailors! 

[Yimpa]

27 minutes ago, funkychunkymonkey said:

anyways im just  a rookie with all this stuff. Exploring the spiritual seven seas with my spritual sailors! 

Deep awakening occurs when an entire whale swallows you whole, like in Pinocchio. 

In other words, you’ve got to go beyond your comfort zone, and even beyond the rules that were programmed into you.

[Breakingthewall]

Meditation is essential. You have to practice daily, for hours, to be stable in the mental void, then do psychedelics for greater openness.

[gettoefl]

doesn't matter what you call it, just sit until you get on top of mind

every minute is a win

i zen'ed for a while, it is good if you want stability, i chose diversity, all roads lead to rome no matter for how long you roam

[Thought Art]

I think if psychedelics are your only spiritual practice that would be a mistake. 
 

I think Zen can offer a lot to your daily life. I personally do not practice Zen, but have interest in learning about it more deeply. 
 

I think Zen, and its practice can help develop a mature mind. Especially in the age of constant distraction, stimuli, and toxic media… and all the bad influences. 
 

If you used Zen, in combination with journaling, contemplation, Qigong, psychedelics, reading spiritual books, etc and you did these things maturely you have a solid foundation for living a spiritual and contemplative existence. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

If you have not reached a level of meditation where you can get out of the mind and do psychedelics, your realizations will be largely mental, there will always be mixed mind, and that is deception.

[deci belle]

If you have to ask, you will never know.

Pop some drugs …again, please.

Or do real practice stone sober for 30 years.

Your choice~ hahahhahahhahhahahahahhahahhahhahahhahahhahahhahahhahhahaaaaa

[Girzo]

Zen, maybe not that much. I would do EEG neurofeedback meditation regularly plus psychedelics on the weekends.

[Thought Art]

@Squeekytoy cringy. Don’t post that here 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Thought Art

[Yimpa]

@Squeekytoy this you?!

 

[UnbornTao]

Sure. Face the wall.

[deci belle]

What the topic-starter will find as a constant beyond his years, is that he will end up the same as what he works with.

Drugs are created. They can only be used briefly, under the auspices of a qualified enlightening being, a prior illuminate who has been there and done that (without necessarily indicating drugs or not). Enlightenment is an entry-level experience that only happens once, not twice (or more).

Ever more trips on more drugs will NEVER suffice to interrupt consciousness other than in the most inconsequential way. Even if successful, the achievement will always be flawed with respect to its overarching premise and reliance on external devices. Even those who see essence spontaneously, in accord with conditions, only see once. It is then necessary to withdraw into concentration on all accounts. The buddha continued his vigil under the Bodhi tree for years, stabilizing and maturing his entry into the inconceivability of the Absolute, before establishing the teaching.

Entry into inconceivability does NOT depend on the sudden— sagehood being the only requisite. Buddhism emphasizes seeing essence first, but it doesn't matter. Taoism's emphasis is the Palace of Water, then Fire (the so-called Science of Essence). Even so, taoism admonishes one to "see essence on your own" since it cannot be taught; only then seek a teacher (to guide one along in the Science of Life). So it really doesn't matter whether one seeks the sudden or the gradual, because the path of authentic enlightening practice is a singularity, a continuum of cosmic proportions.

It's not zen or drugs. Mind is one. It's swllowing the entire ocean in one gulp, not a little teacup to tide you over until the next dose~ pffffff

Breakingthewall is absolutely terrified of Buddhism, and I don't blame him one bit. Nevertheless, it's perfectly ok to steal a little here and there from the great traditions of authentic transcendent teaching. It's only a teaching. All the authentic modes of transcendence are direct pointing to the source without distinction. Reality is formless, not empty, as the drug-takers all seem to spray. They simply have not broken through.

Buddhism never invented anything. Mind is nonoriginated. No buddha can reach you there. Reality is already your own mind before the first thought right this very instant. Who but the accomplished and perspicacious can see through phenomenon without denying their characteristics giving rise to views of self, other, before, after, good, bad, right and wrong?

Therefore, the psychology of the person and its functional apparati are dependent on having a body, even if that be metaphysical (a body outside the body). Sensory and strictly mental phenomena relative to perception on account of drug ingestion is still relative to the person~ however strung-out such a one may be. Even sudden enlightenment is possible only because of "dropping the skinbag" however temporarily. Return is inevitable, and the  inevitability of return from the Absolute is actually fraught with challenges. What are the drug-takers going to do without their crutch? Don't even start!

Those who insist on arguing the merits of drugs never say why they continue its use even as they insist they have accomplished their objective by achieving themselves spiritually.

Getting back to the point of my first sentence, taoism has a very ancient dictum stating that you work with what is the same. If you work with what is created (drugs), you will only accomplish what is created. You won't ever enter the realm of potential and master the Science of Life. That is why  those with the highest potentials eschew such crutches and enter straight away into endless transformations without any doubts.

Working with essence directly without intermediary, the accomplishment doesn't take thirty years. One just awakens to potential by sheer open sincerity to one's lot as is and begins using everyday ordinary situations to set up the alchemic foundation, the furnace, the cauldron and the medicines. It is only necessary to recognize the timing and gravity of energies present. Taoism calls it stealing energy, buddhism calls it saving energy.

You can call it any name you want; if its real, you use just this without remainder before the first thought.

 

 

ed note: typo 4th paragraph

Edited December 15, 2023 by deci belle