I am in literal hell

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Sugarcoat said:

thoughts are not scary - thoughts are trying to grasp at something beyond themselves. - whatever that is can be scary or not 
 

a thought about pain isn’t scary because the thought is scary it’s the fear of the real thing that thought is pointing to. 
 

the unease in my entire being when my sense of self weakens - it’s not the body is not at ease it’s like I am this activity that is desperately trying to maintain itself and that is the unease in itself - and simultaneously unease about it being physical resistance that maintain me 

 

it doesn’t make sense at all what I’m saying which I understand it would have to be experienced directly to make sense

Does it feel like there is some kind of disembodied "identity" which is trying to latch on to your experience? You talk about a "self which is beyond mental because it has a center in experience", by that do you mean a sense of control? Is the fear perhaps about a loss of control?

For the record, I definitely do see some kind of ego/identity which is trying to make sense of the experience, which is to be expected. I am just trying to get a more objective idea of what is occurring. It's really important to separate physical symptoms from any kind of mental egoic identities which are causing those symptoms. For example, it is one thing to burn yourself on a hot stove, but then another thing to become paranoid about hot stoves after that experience occurs. The paranoia is a fearful identity created from an objective experiential phenomenon.

I get what you mean when you say that the experience itself is real and actually experienced, and I feel for you, but that doesn't mean it can't be untangled, so to speak.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Osaid

[Carl-Richard]

@UnbornTao @Osaid

Do you think you will get her to swallow the red pill? Through text? Mmmeh. I think a real-life face-to-face meeting would increase your chances; get energetically and empathically connected. Not that I'm encouraging anybody to break the guidelines though  This suddenly started to sound very creepy  ( @Sugarcoat I'm serious about the advice though: consider go seeing a teacher in person).

Edited December 8, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Osaid]

12 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Do you think you will get her to swallow the red pill? Through text? Mmmeh. I think a real-life face-to-face meeting would increase your chances; get energetically and empathically connected. Not that I'm encouraging anybody to break the guidelines though  This suddenly started to sound very creepy

Was thinking about telling them to go see Nahm or something, since he does face-to-face stuff. Also told them to see a professional. Aside from that, I can only plant the seeds for inspection through text on a screen, which may or may not be useful. Anything that leads to self-inquiry can be powerful.

Anyways, not gonna act like I know exactly what they're experiencing, but there is some narrative about an ego desperately maintaining itself which hasn't been dissolved or dealt with. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

Does it feel like there is some kind of disembodied "identity" which is trying to latch on to your experience? You talk about a "self which is beyond mental because it has a center in experience", by that do you mean a sense of control? Is the fear perhaps about a loss of control?

For the record, I definitely do see some kind of ego/identity which is trying to make sense of the experience, which is to be expected. I am just trying to get a more objective idea of what is occurring. It's really important to separate physical symptoms from any kind of mental egoic identities which are causing those symptoms. For example, it is one thing to burn yourself on a hot stove, but then another thing to become paranoid about hot stoves after that experience occurs. The paranoia is a fearful identity created from an objective experiential phenomenon.

I get what you mean when you say that the experience itself is real and actually experienced, and I feel for you, but that doesn't mean it can't be untangled, so to speak.

it’s not fear of loss of control.I fear physical pain. and no it’s not like something is trying to latch onto me, it’s more direct than that. Like I am the very thing trying to maintain itself and is barely holding itself up.

 

I don’t know how I could explain this further I’ve written a lot

i can just say that about a month ago, suddenly it was like I was almost completely headless and reality almost had no 3D to it. That’s not conceptual, because when my sense of self is weaker thoughts are also more “hollow”

 

Then those thoughts every second every day morning to night started to go on about suffering from physical resistance. Like something in me knew, at first it seemed innocent I explored it a little and noticed oh if I do a little exercise suddenly there is some robustness in my head (center) that is produced as I push against the resistance that’s good. But it’s so weak and it falls apart quick, so I go again for more. And it’s still weak? How much is needed? And my mind starts to understand the resistance is seemingly infinite to phantom able levels it is the only way out. 
 

so the horror from directly experiencing yourself sort of sinking forward - that is choiceless how that is experienced - that is not me thinking it is bad, it is experienced directly as bad. The idea of not having sense of self doesnt seem bad to me, I don’t fear that, I can’t imagine that, the raw experience of sinking forward for some reason just is horrendous here, it’s not I am holding on- it’s more there is holding on and I am that holding on activity impossible to explain.
 

and then the horror from your mind all day in and out pointing to suffering as your only way out so it’s hell in both ways. 
 

for some reason i still now have this extremely vague sense of self holding me up . It’s like I am resting as myself but it’s extremely weak foundation. And I know it will not last long 

 

i can just say what im right now is the last thing i would ever want. 

 

[Sugarcoat]

51 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@UnbornTao @Osaid

Do you think you will get her to swallow the red pill? Through text? Mmmeh. I think a real-life face-to-face meeting would increase your chances; get energetically and empathically connected. Not that I'm encouraging anybody to break the guidelines though  This suddenly started to sound very creepy  ( @Sugarcoat I'm serious about the advice though: consider go seeing a teacher in person).

This is so deep that when my sense of self weakens my sense of others weaken too so it’s like I’ve told a few people I don’t feel good and it does absolutely nothing at all when they say nice things to me, it doesn’t change anything at all in the slightest. I’ve written on Reddit too. 
 

I get these thoughts all the time that is like desperately trying to escape maybe a thought about telling all my family and going to psych ward but it all barely feels real at all. 
 

like as I’m writing this my sense of you guys is extremely vague. 

the only thing that changes this is the physical resistance. No joke. And that is pure horror. 
 

 

[Osaid]

42 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

it’s not fear of loss of control.I fear physical pain. and no it’s not like something is trying to latch onto me, it’s more direct than that. Like I am the very thing trying to maintain itself and is barely holding itself up.

 

I don’t know how I could explain this further I’ve written a lot

i can just say that about a month ago, suddenly it was like I was almost completely headless and reality almost had no 3D to it. That’s not conceptual, because when my sense of self is weaker thoughts are also more “hollow”

 

Then those thoughts every second every day morning to night started to go on about suffering from physical resistance. Like something in me knew, at first it seemed innocent I explored it a little and noticed oh if I do a little exercise suddenly there is some robustness in my head (center) that is produced as I push against the resistance that’s good. But it’s so weak and it falls apart quick, so I go again for more. And it’s still weak? How much is needed? And my mind starts to understand the resistance is seemingly infinite to phantom able levels it is the only way out. 
 

so the horror from directly experiencing yourself sort of sinking forward - that is choiceless how that is experienced - that is not me thinking it is bad, it is experienced directly as bad. The idea of not having sense of self doesnt seem bad to me, I don’t fear that, I can’t imagine that, the raw experience of sinking forward for some reason just is horrendous here, it’s not I am holding on- it’s more there is holding on and I am that holding on activity impossible to explain.
 

and then the horror from your mind all day in and out pointing to suffering as your only way out so it’s hell in both ways. 
 

for some reason i still now have this extremely vague sense of self holding me up . It’s like I am resting as myself but it’s extremely weak foundation. And I know it will not last long 

 

i can just say what im right now is the last thing i would ever want. 

 

You said you had a "permanent awakening" and there was a series of shifts and releases afterwards, leading to where you are now.

Going from this, and if you say it is truly a physiological phenomenon instead of some mental resistance, I wonder if it is related to some kind of kundalini symptoms, I would look into that and see if the symptoms resonate.

Aside from that, try looking for things that can effect the phenomenon, as you find in exercise for example. I find it interesting that music doesn't resonate anymore since I think that resonates emotionally for most people.

Does doing something like a guided meditation make any difference?

Edited December 8, 2023 by Osaid

[Sugarcoat]

32 minutes ago, Osaid said:

You said you had a "permanent awakening" and there was a series of shifts and releases afterwards, leading to where you are now.

Going from this, and if you say it is truly a physiological phenomenon instead of some mental resistance, I wonder if it is related to some kind of kundalini symptoms, I would look into that and see if the symptoms resonate.

Aside from that, try looking for things that can effect the phenomenon, as you find in exercise for example. I find it interesting that music doesn't resonate anymore since I think that resonates emotionally for most people.

Does doing something like a guided meditation make any difference?

Music barely feels real it doesn’t touch anything because I barely feel real

 

in the beginning of this i did this extremely light exercise movements  that were so light it was meditative and I did it first 3 hours, next night 4 hours and then on like that until one night I did 15 hours . 
 

It did not produce desired effect

 

 basically what my mind has realized is that absolute torture is my only way, and it is the most horror that I cannot grasp it. My system is telling me to produce myself from scratch through torturing myself and that that is my only way 

[Salvijus]

It's time for a superhero to come and save the day. 

Hohoho. Here I am. 

Honestly tho, I think if you were to stop interpreting what's happening, the horror would be over. It is the ego that makes all things dramatic. Pure spirit sees all things as perfectly neutral. I would say put aside the seriousness. Laugh a bit. Watch the joke I sent before. Enjoy the weather. Remind yourself life is good and benevolent.:) because that's the truth. Everything else are made up fantasy stories. If yout take those fantasies too seriously you may end up a santa claws superhero aswell. 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Salvijus

[BlueOak]

8 hours ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’m talking about the self as in experience, then what absolute truth is I have no clue that is another thing. so this thing “you’re everything”, doesn’t affect experience 

I can say I could clearly tell it was permanent in the sense it’s not gonna build itself by itself. So it’s not like a trip where it’s this weakening of self then it comes back absolutely not. 
 

literally all my workouts have produced this tiny little center . 
 

the mental activity increases when the sense of self weakens - it’s like reverse relationship . And nothing outside changes it

 

 

Let me know if what i've suggested many times in these posts helps or not - Water. Breathing. Nature. Air. Calm environment. I don't think you being stuck in this cyclic reasoning or rationalization of the experience as it's happening is helping you right now. Sometimes you just have to let the spiritual experience happen, the resistance is what causes the problem, then reflect on it afterward and its meaning.
 

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, BlueOak said:

@Breakingthewall
Got any advice here? If you don't mind a tag. I know you speak about having regular spiritual experiences.

If I were the op, i would go as deep as possible in that state of emptiness. The void is the last frontier, behind it is the source of living existence, the great mystery

[UnbornTao]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

@UnbornTao @Osaid

Do you think you will get her to swallow the red pill? Through text? Mmmeh. I think a real-life face-to-face meeting would increase your chances; get energetically and empathically connected. Not that I'm encouraging anybody to break the guidelines though  This suddenly started to sound very creepy  ( @Sugarcoat I'm serious about the advice though: consider go seeing a teacher in person).

Pointing to the direction of experiencing what that's about. Listening is possible and up to the individual. Your advice is valid.

[Yimpa]

This topic must have done something to my psyche cus I had a wild nightmare last night 

[Sugarcoat]

47 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

This topic must have done something to my psyche cus I had a wild nightmare last night 

So many night have been like that recently they all reflect what’s going on with uou 

[Sugarcoat]

5 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

If I were the op, i would go as deep as possible in that state of emptiness. The void is the last frontier, behind it is the source of living existence, the great mystery

In the same way that in my past when there would be releases of resistance it didn’t feel like I was the one doing it, it was happening spontaneously, not like “I let go” In the same way when my sense of self gets extremely weak i don’t experience it as I’m the one holding on or resisting, but it’s like choiceless. Like movement is movement it’s not doing the action of moving kind of. 

[Yimpa]

10 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

This topic must have done something to my psyche cus I had a wild nightmare last night 

So many night have been like that recently they all reflect what’s going on with uou 

Literally read this as I’m listening to this song:

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Yimpa

[An young being]

Apart from seeing or getting advice from a spiritual teacher, you may have to see a psychologist as well. Although spiritual teachers are good with grounding and stuff, psychologists know a thing or two about treating these things as well. It's not necessary to know the cause in detail to treat a disease.

[Yimpa]

@An young being I’ve been extremely fortunate to have a therapist who doubled as a spiritual teacher.

Of course, they wouldn’t downright tell me they were also a spiritual teacher, because that would distract from the real work.

[BlueOak]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

This topic must have done something to my psyche cus I had a wild nightmare last night 

Just before I slept I asked for a bit of help from a mystic who helped me once. I felt like a truck hit me when I got up. Woke up twice during the night. Maybe we/they did some work collectively speaking.

I'm not remembering dreams at the moment. So I was probably unconscious for it. You can do a lot as you integrate with yourself (everything) at night, if you set intent.

[Yimpa]

3 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Just before I slept I asked for a bit of help from a mystic who helped me once. I felt like a truck hit me when I got up. Woke up twice during the night. Maybe we/they did some work collectively speaking.

Unironically, my nightmare did involve a pickup truck driver who I assumed was calling the cops on me, but never did.

[BlueOak]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Unironically, my nightmare did involve a pickup truck driver who I assumed was calling the cops on me, but never did.

A funny synchronicity