I am in literal hell

[Sugarcoat]

@An young being

@Breakingthewall

So nobody has understood the exercise thing I talk about . That’s why I say I wonder if anyone ever has gone through this

that is an aspect of this absolute nightmare cycle I am stuck in which is beyond what i could ever imagine I would find myself in

It sounds absolutely insane but it is very real. 

jim newmam says himself how the self is physical tension and something in me figured it out that pushing against resistance in physical exercise is the only way to produce selF

 

so it’s this cycle, when my sense of self weakens and weakens, I lose my sense of autonomy and my mind drives me to physical exercise . It doesn’t feel like an active choice because I am barely there. Then I do it until it hurts and I stop, and little sense of self is produced, then it’s weak and starts to weaken again and the cycle continues. The only way out is tortureous exercise which my mind is trying to move me to to produce something stable, but ofc nobody would ever want to go that route. It is the greatest indescribable nightmare I could’ve ever imagined being in. 
 

I say over and over why surrender is not possible but I wish it was. As the sense of self weakens it doesn’t feel like I drive my actions so something deeper in me drives me . Something that is trying to bring me back to life 

the absolute horribleness of the process of dissolving is not something I have an relationship to and could surrender to- because I am the very dissolving in itself - I’m not doing the resistance I am the very resistance to dissolving. It’s almost impossible to explain but surrender would be like someone lets something happen. But when my self weakens and weakens there’s not much autonomy there to let anything happen . The sort of “holding onto itself” is happening automatically and I am that, one could say. It’s not like let’s say someone has a negative emotion they are experiencing and they let it be there and pass- there’s no relationship to it that I could let or not let happen. I wouldn’t be writing here if I was in the deepest void because my sense of anything is so vague there is no point

I’m speaking from the most genuine place. Now I have a little sense of self but it is very very vague and I know deep down it’s not gonna last and when something else takes over I am in the cycle again and it is the last thing I would’ve ever wish in all of my life

i I did not chose to be born into this body mind, 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[An young being]

7 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

I’m speaking from the most genuine place. Now I have a little sense of self but it is very very vague and I know deep down it’s not gonna last and when something else takes over I am in the cycle again and it is the last thing I would’ve ever wish in all of my life

i I did not chose to be born into this body mind, 

Sorry that we don't seem to understand you. You need help from someone who is good in explaining these things to you, that could be a good spiritual teacher or a psychologist. The only thing that can say that sounds sensible is that the cycle of suffering you are going through is not permanent. They seem endless at short notice, but you will find that to be a lie sometimes later.

[Osaid]

35 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

so it’s this cycle, when my sense of self weakens and weakens, I lose my sense of autonomy and my mind drives me to physical exercise . It doesn’t feel like an active choice because I am barely there. Then I do it until it hurts and I stop, and little sense of self is produced, then it’s weak and starts to weaken again and the cycle continues. The only way out is tortureous exercise which my mind is trying to move me to to produce something stable, but ofc nobody would ever want to go that route. It is the greatest indescribable nightmare I could’ve ever imagined being in. 

Are you saying you can't control your body? What happens if you try to stop yourself from exercising?

[Osaid]

16 hours ago, An young being said:

psychologists know a thing or two about treating these things as well. It's not necessary to know the cause in detail to treat a disease.

True.

[Davino]

On 7/12/2023 at 6:02 PM, Sugarcoat said:

surrender is not possible because when the sense of self weakens it doesn’t feel like I am the one driving my actions 

That's surrender at a very high level in fact. So you don't even have to surrender, you just need to not resist surrender.

[Bobby_2021]

There is some aspect in you that is super developed enough to annihilate the self while the other parts are in dear confusion messing up the equanimity of the system. You have to restrike that balance somehow.

You have to try out many things. Like working out did bring back the self for a while. Try out more things and update us. Quite interesting tbh. 

Try observing the tensions in your body while you are resistance training. Remember it and then Recreate that later. Shouldn't be too hard. 

For me my enlightenment /out of body experiences are getting more and more under my control when under the right circumstances although it's quite fragile. I am super stable. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[Merkabah Star]

If you truly did awaken you should be able to command your true self to anchor into one. 
 

a spontaneous awakening aged 20, maybe it wasn’t a full awakening?

the qigong suggestion was a good one. That will ground you just as much as strenuous exercise. 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Osaid said:

Are you saying you can't control your body? What happens if you try to stop yourself from exercising?

The brain is doing all it can to preserve the sense of self so yea when sense of self weakens more and more it feels automatic everything I do until the exercising gets hard and I stop because of pain. 
 

If I’m at home about to exercise and maybe I wait a little it’s like reality is just completely flat there is almost nothing anywhere. And I’m almost completely headless so I’m driven by something deeper in me that knows there is more to reality than this- and that comes to life through physical resistance. So it’s like there is nowhere else to go in reality than towards the resistance. 

The void is “non negotiable “, “I” can only stand so much of it. I remember when my sense of self was at its weakest it is so disgusting I was twisting and turning at night.

the self as in the solid center has an intimate relationship with physical resistance . It’s hard to explain but it’s like you feel you’re extremely “forward” in your skull and there’s like zero distance between you and what you’re looking at and there’s this constant “pulling” action in all of your being like it’s trying to pull itself back and that is horrendous to be that experience, but you’re not doing it: 

 

[Sugarcoat]

2 hours ago, An young being said:

Sorry that we don't seem to understand you. You need help from someone who is good in explaining these things to you, that could be a good spiritual teacher or a psychologist. The only thing that can say that sounds sensible is that the cycle of suffering you are going through is not permanent. They seem endless at short notice, but you will find that to be a lie sometimes later.

This is deeply neurological . It’s beyond psychological. I am almost 100% certain what I’m talking about can be seen on a brain scan 

It’s more fundamental than thinking

the weaker the sense of self the more hollow thoughts seem and vice versa. 
 

the sense of solid center “I am here” is more fundamental then any sort of mind identification it’s the most fundamental thing to your reality 

my experience is of being extremely extremely vague and “forward” in the skull like almost no distance to what I’m looking at.
everything seeming barely real and flat.

And the only thing having an affect on this is physical resistance. Because when you push against resistance in exercise sense of self is produced and as a consequence it gives rise to all of reality- literally the 3D ness of reality increases when sense of self increases. That’s basically how it functions this process. And the stronger resistance the more sense of self and all of reality as a consequence . This was a horrendous discovery that my brain discovered through direct experience 

the brain does everything it can to preserve the sense of self and I am the sort of a victim of that process. I cannot stop this attempt at maintenance.

i have noticed this pattern, the weaker my sense of self gets, the more thoughts about torturous physical exercise.

 

Imagine you are walking around almost completely headless and flashing before your eyes every single second is visualization of extreme physical exercise , you even dream about it at night sometimes 

basically the brain showing you what you need to maintain and build yourself up. 
 

Is there a choice to not do like these thoughts? The sense of self is so weak that it’s like something deeper in me that is trying to preserve me drives me towards the exercise so no. I know it sounds crazy

but the problem is that when the exercise gets hard that’s when the choice comes in and ofc I stop because it’s painful. 
 

but then the consequence is that the sense of self produced is so weak it will dissolve again and this cycle continues 

You can’t relax into the void because I am the very activity that’s trying to maintain itself there’s not autonomy there to let or not let it happen it’s being done 

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

1 hour ago, Davino said:

That's surrender at a very high level in fact. So you don't even have to surrender, you just need to not resist surrender.

You have a point there but what happens inevitably is that cycle I talked about on being driven to physical resistance to try to maintain myself. It’s kind of like automatic reflex. Could I just stay and not do it? There is barely self there to do that

[Sugarcoat]

59 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

If you truly did awaken you should be able to command your true self to anchor into one. 
 

a spontaneous awakening aged 20, maybe it wasn’t a full awakening?

the qigong suggestion was a good one. That will ground you just as much as strenuous exercise. 

It was the end of mind identification. 
 

but mind identification isn’t all there is to self

when I say self I’m referring to the more fundamental solid center. 
 

Self doesn’t come by itself 

 

physical exercise isn’t about grounding it’s about production of sense of self

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[Sugarcoat]

I am in such a deep hell my mind cannot grasp it.

its like I barely exist and the way to existence is an incomprehensible amount of physical resistance - basically torture

and in the other direction we have dissolving - the more you dissolve the stronger this horrendous ~automatic~ activity of trying to maintain itself gets- and the less autonomy you have so something deeper in your brain drives you to try to preserve you.

so its this cycle. Hell in both directions

 

i cannot possibly phantom this. This tiny little self I have now; I know that it will sink , and what happens then is not up to me because I’m barely there at all

Edited December 9, 2023 by Sugarcoat

[UnbornTao]

@Sugarcoat Well, stop it. Which is to say, get conscious of what the activity is doing. For example in the way you interpret events. Then you'll drop it naturally. Enjoy it either way as you're getting something out of it.

Whatever it is you're going through, the way you relate to it may be causing unnecessary suffering. If you hold yourself as the victim of uncontrollable event, well, again, enjoy the ride.

Doesn't it sound like it gets you something? It is something you've decided to take up. Grasp it as what it is, see it as unnecessary, then the soap opera can be let go of.

The body works perfectly on its own regardless of self.

Lighten up. You are already you and have always been, whatever that is. As an alternative shift, focus on moving towards what you want to experience and create. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Schizophonia]

3D is an illusion. Everything is an illusion, even the reactions to orgasm or torture is an illusion, it is possible to reach a state where having a piece of your leg cut off is no different than having an orgasm because ultimately it It's comedy. There is no free will, there is no choice, there is just a film and everything we can perceive in it is a sleight of hand.
 

We can of course see what you have with a scan yes.
You said nothing "outside" (even though the inside/outside dichotomy is also an illusion lol) but that's wrong, you want to try to deplete serotonin and/or antagonize it and/or look for increase Dopamine/catecholamine or even Histamine.

Dominant state in catecholamine is:
-Reactive (euphoric or angry depending on the context)

-Delirious, can give the impression that his vision of life is modeled on imagination. Subject to political extremism, megalomania, paranoia, erotomania…

-Impulsive and expressive, more childish and primitive behavior in general.

-Low appetite, preference for bland/low-calorie things.

-Big libido

-Difficulty gaining weight.

-Not very sensitive to heat.

-Hyperthyroidism

That's what sticks out in my mind.

What might help if you're desperate:

Low dose Quetiapine or Cyproheptadine (for 5HT2 antagonism), fenclonine (for sérotonine depletation), and Wellbutrin or Modafinil for catecholamine neurotransmition).

Edited December 9, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

9 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Sugarcoat Well, stop it already. Which is to say get conscious of the activity you're generating, for example in the way you interpret events, and drop it. In any case, enjoy it. You're getting something out of it.

Whatever it is you're going through, the way you relate to it is causing unnecessary suffering. If you hold yourself as the victim of some uncontrollable event, well, again enjoy the ride.

Doesn't it sound like it gets you something? To justify a certain worldview perhaps, to validate feeling like a victim of circumstances, to get acknowledged by others, among other possibilities. By how you're posting here, you do seem to want it, you get something out of it. Grasp it as what it is, see it as unnecessary, then the soap opera can be let go of. It is something you've decided to take up.

The body doesn't care about self, it works perfectly on its own; as a matter of fact it might work better when self is set aside -- restful sleep is an example. This is one way you're making shit up. Don't worry about it.

Hey, breathe and lighten up. You're already you and have always been, whatever that is.

As an alternative shift, focus on moving towards what you want to experience and create. 

The way you react to something is not fundamentally linked to its nature.

[UnbornTao]

39 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

The way you react to something is not fundamentally linked to its nature.

about is not it.

A reaction is different from the thing being reacted to.

Edited December 9, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Sugarcoat]

10 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Sugarcoat Well, stop it already. Which is to say get conscious of the activity you're generating, for example in the way you interpret events, and drop it. In any case, enjoy it. You're getting something out of it.

Whatever it is you're going through, the way you relate to it is causing unnecessary suffering. If you hold yourself as the victim of some uncontrollable event, well, again enjoy the ride.

Doesn't it sound like it gets you something? To justify a certain worldview perhaps, to validate feeling like a victim of circumstances, to get acknowledged by others, among other possibilities. By how you're posting here, you do seem to want it, you get something out of it. Grasp it as what it is, see it as unnecessary, then the soap opera can be let go of. It is something you've decided to take up.

The body doesn't care about self, it works perfectly on its own; as a matter of fact it might work better when self is set aside -- restful sleep is an example. This is one way you're making shit up. Don't worry about it.

Hey, breathe and lighten up. You're already you and have always been, whatever that is.

As an alternative shift, focus on moving towards what you want to experience and create. 

ofc the words are interpretation they don’t actually express the direct experience 

 

me doing this is just some way of interacting as myself 
because I know that this tiny sense of self will sink sooner or later maybe day or two I don’t know. It’s this cycle that’s been going on these last weeks
 

I don’t expect anyone to reply, anyone is free to say what they want it doesn’t change anything. 

me writing this post was some desperation to interact as myself with others and express 

but everything I’ve written so far is 100% genuinely an attempt at describing . It sounds extremely crazy because it is extremely rare. But essentially what it boils down to is this center self and its attempts to maintain itself and its relationship to resistance. But the lived experience is indescribable 

the brain tries to preserve self automatically it’s not much choice at all in the matter. 

if I am breaking the rules feel free but I don’t think I am
 

 

 

[Sugarcoat]

11 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

3D is an illusion. Everything is an illusion, even the reactions to orgasm or torture is an illusion, it is possible to reach a state where having a piece of your leg cut off is no different than having an orgasm because ultimately it It's comedy. There is no free will, there is no choice, there is just a film and everything we can perceive in it is a sleight of hand.
 

We can of course see what you have with a scan yes.
You said nothing "outside" (even though the inside/outside dichotomy is also an illusion lol) but that's wrong, you want to try to deplete serotonin and/or antagonize it and/or look for increase Dopamine/catecholamine or even Histamine.

Dominant state in catecholamine is:
-Reactive (euphoric or angry depending on the context)

-Delirious, can give the impression that his vision of life is modeled on imagination. Subject to political extremism, megalomania, paranoia, erotomania…

-Impulsive and expressive, more childish and primitive behavior in general.

-Low appetite, preference for bland/low-calorie things.

-Big libido

-Difficulty gaining weight.

-Not very sensitive to heat.

-Hyperthyroidism

That's what sticks out in my mind.

 

Suffering is still suffering, whether it’s actually real or not. I’m describing direct experience 

I’m talking about the most fundamental thing ever literally you, the experience that you exist and its relationship to resistance. All those things mentioned are extra on the side doesn’t touch the core of what I am describing 

 

 

[Schizophonia]

11 minutes ago, Sugarcoat said:

Suffering is still suffering, whether it’s actually real or not. I’m describing direct experience 

I’m talking about the most fundamental thing ever literally you, the experience that you exist and its relationship to resistance. All those things mentioned are extra on the side doesn’t touch the core of what I am describing 

 

 

What will this change in the experience?

[Sugarcoat]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

What will this change in the experience?

Nothing