Why should I vote Democrat?

[Buck Edwards]

How fair is it to vote for Democrat? 

 

[Sincerity]

8 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

 

A bunch of malarkey 

[DocWatts]

If you value being able to vote in future elections, voting for Democrats is essential since the Republican plan is to essentially install Trump as dictator.

Look into 'Project 2025' if you want details on MAGA's plan to dismantle democracy in America.

https://accountable.us/right-wing-network-plots-to-undermine-democracy-with-project-2025/

“...democracy experts view Project 2025 as an authoritarian attempt to seize power by filling the federal government, including the Department of Justice and the FBI, with unwavering Trump supporters, which could potentially erode the country’s system of checks and balances.”

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by DocWatts

[Buck Edwards]

8 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

If you value being able to vote in future elections,

Err!! You mean to say that I should vote only for the sake of being able to vote. That's a pretty damn low standard for voting. This is like settling for a lesser evil. What if the democrats are full of thugs, race baiters, corrupt politicians, war mongers, and generally don't care about the interests of the average American?

Which brings me to my next point. 

Should I vote based on principle or should I vote based on advantage? 

The Democrats are all sugary when it comes to principles. But no real results in terms of economic growth. 

Trump on the other hand promises economic growth, better foreign relations and lowering medical bills. 

Should I care if Trump is unprincipled as long as he delivers what I want as an average citizen? 

What are principles good for if they are only on paper? 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Buck Edwards

[Buck Edwards]

@DocWatts who's to say that project 2025 is not just another conspiracy to boot off Trump? 

[DocWatts]

16 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Err!! You mean to say that I should vote only for the sake of being able to vote. That's a pretty damn low standard for voting. This is like settling for a lesser evil. What if the democrats are full of thugs, race baiters, corrupt politicians, war mongers, and generally don't care about the interests of the average American?

Which brings me to my next point? 

Should I vote based on principle or should I vote based on advantage? 

The Democrats are all sugary when it comes to principles. But no real results in terms of economic growth. 

Trump on the other hand promises economic growth, better foreign relations and lowering medical bills. 

Should I care if Trump is unprincipled as long as he delivers what I want as an average citizen? 

What are principles good for if they are only on paper? 

If you want to be the modern day equivalent of someone voting to end democracy in 1930s Germany I can't stop you, but I question what you're doing on a conscious politics forum if you're unable to recognize that Trump is an completely unhinged and unprincipled authoritarian con-man.

Edited December 5, 2023 by DocWatts

[Buck Edwards]

11 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

but I question what you're doing on a conscious politics forum if you're unable to recognize that Trump is an completely unhinged and unprincipled authoritarian con-man.

Politics is also about my needs, I shouldn't become a Guinea pig on the slaughter for principles. 

[BlueOak]

All of life is settling for the lesser evil. There is nothing you can tell me that I can't find evil in. I realized that the other day, and it finally eliminated the last of my idealism.

With no hyperbole or idealism at all:
You've got a move toward fascism in Trump, and all the problems that brings.
You've got a move toward corporatism in Biden, and all the problems that brings.

However, reaffirming the general public's trust in law and order, government institutions, and the vote, then removing conspiracy from political discourse. Is certainly worth one narcissist called Trump going to jail. Putting up with a corporate-owned politician, who can barely keep the facade of it called Biden, is worth not electing a dictator. Trump's told everyone what he's going to do, and although I don't believe a word he spews at 5am in his delusional social media posts. I'd rather not see America slide further from democracy and into dictatorship, because you pull the UK with you when you do.

Trump would gut social security and things people need to survive, Trump will be running on 4 years of coming after judges, and prosecutors, and pulling you all closer to civil war, it will just be his personal revenge fantasy. It was ridiculous to have him as the candidate again. Any other conservative or even wannabe fascist would have avoided this problem. He'll probably be in jail before he even gets to the election, and broke. All the term will be him telling everyone how great he is, doing nothing for anyone else except building ineffectual walls people can dig under or climb over, spouting conspiracies every morning. Possibly bombing mexico. Winning his fictional war on Christmas, and ripping up as many safeguards as he can to create a dictatorship. He wants a dictatorship, he keeps saying so.

Project 2025 was created by the same people trying to get him elected, you want a move towards a dystopian nightmare be my guest, I just hope we distance ourselves from America if you go that route, because I don't feel like getting arrested in the streets fighting it.

[universe]

2 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

How fair is it to vote for Democrat? 

If you care about yourself it is fair enough.

If you want to see (very few) rich people profiting from everyone else, voting for trump is a fair deal you should take.

[Tanz]

@universe Both Trump and Biden perpetuated systems for the donor class to profit severely.  I dont think any party is capable of changing that.  The rich participate financially, they want something in return for their donations.  None the less Biden has the misfortune of spending endless money on two wars.  

Trump has the advantage on this coming election.  

Edited December 5, 2023 by Tanz

[BlueOak]

BTW to not imbalance this too much. The Democrats just canceled their primary, so they are no bastions of democracy either. Both parties (corporate owners) just want to select one man they want and have you legitimatize them. Just right now you've got a demagogue with a revenge fantasy, who is so fragile he can't accept a sliver of criticism without attacking the person/institution who gave it, or making up some wild conspiracy about why it happened, and a guy who's mostly asleep reading a script someone gave him, representing his biggest donors interests exclusively. One scenario is substantially better than the other for everyday people in the short to medium term.

Edited December 5, 2023 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

5 hours ago, Tanz said:

@universe Both Trump and Biden perpetuated systems for the donor class to profit severely.  I dont think any party is capable of changing that.  The rich participate financially, they want something in return for their donations.  None the less Biden has the misfortune of spending endless money on two wars.  

Trump has the advantage on this coming election.  

Both sides of this have to vote against their own nature. 

Conservatives to attack institutions, backing a weak man with a victim mentality.
Liberals to stomach an ethnic cleansing, backing a supposed liberal taking a rightwing approach from the 1950's.

Crazy times. 

Trump does have the populist support yes. However, the entire campaign trump will be in a courtroom with breaks being relatively rare. He'll have no money left for campaigning. His entire line will be oh poor me, I'm the victim, which to a rightwinger has to sound pathetic and not a 'winner'.  Then he'll be trying to undermine institutions that he feels personally slighted him, which conservatives should naturally hate. Most of the money people give him will go on his court fees, so he's effectively begging. Further on top of his already two civil cases, and 4 criminal cases, he's just been hit with another wave of potential lawsuits from people who were injured on Jan 6th, and I think the police that were hurt have a good case.

Not to mention people who will be suing him for libel when their professional roles have finished, afterward to not conflict with their current interests, I would with the venom and conspiracy nonsense that comes out of his mouth, if I were the clerk for example, the vote checkers doing their civil duties, or a prosecutor. It's going to be a minor miracle if he personally, not professionally but personally doesn't go bankrupt as well as losing his right to do business in New York. Also he might just lose it and break down entirely under the stress.

*I think Biden is more conservative than Trump at this point on many issues, which is why you hear of actual ideological conservatives switching over. Its not much different for labor in the UK.

Edited December 5, 2023 by BlueOak

[bebotalk]

Politics is philosophical and thus pretty tribal. Most people vote blindly for parties due to an ideological allegiance, or what their family or culture approve of. there's nothing wrong with this. Politics isn't a science and is often based on subjective value judgments of how to run a society or a country. Few people vote on what's the best option in an objective sense. In most democracies, major parties have a large ideological block of voters based on whom they appeal towards via their ideology. Trump still has a very large base, despite losing in 2020, and the following Jan 6th furore and his numerous criminal/civil cases. 

 

[PurpleTree]

10 hours ago, DocWatts said:

If you value being able to vote in future elections, voting for Democrats is essential since the Republican plan is to essentially install Trump as dictator.

Look into 'Project 2025' if you want details on MAGA's plan to dismantle democracy in America.

https://accountable.us/right-wing-network-plots-to-undermine-democracy-with-project-2025/

“...democracy experts view Project 2025 as an authoritarian attempt to seize power by filling the federal government, including the Department of Justice and the FBI, with unwavering Trump supporters, which could potentially erode the country’s system of checks and balances.”

 

 

 

Wow trump as a dictator 

i can see it now

they put the toupee on flags as their swastika

[Danioover9000]

@Buck Edwards

12 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

How fair is it to vote for Democrat? 

 

   Watch this instead, it's informative and Thomas Sowell does a good job explaining the history of them:

 

[Buck Edwards]

3 hours ago, BlueOak said:

BTW to not imbalance this too much. The Democrats just canceled their primary, so they are no bastions of democracy either. Both parties (corporate owners) just want to select one man they want and have you legitimatize them. Just right now you've got a demagogue with a revenge fantasy, who is so fragile he can't accept a sliver of criticism without attacking the person/institution who gave it, or making up some wild conspiracy about why it happened, and a guy who's mostly asleep reading a script someone gave him, representing his biggest donors interests exclusively. One scenario is substantially better than the other for everyday people in the short to medium term.

Well put.

@Danioover9000 I'll watch that. Thanks 

13 hours ago, DocWatts said:

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Buck Edwards  I think best advice is vote based on your beliefs, and your bias. If you are identified as democrat, you vote democratic. If you a conservative/republican, vote republican. It's that easy in America. Don't vote because Biden's cool or Donald Trump's cool, vote on your principles. I wish America evolves to have either a limited democracy, or a third party or more party state as I'd like to vote more than just republican or democrat, I want more options, not just sleepy Biden or orange Trump or whoever the next republican is.

[Parallax Mind]

There's a real chance Trump will find a way to a third term if he wins in 2024. You should understand why that alone should disqualify Trump. 

 

[sholomar]

I have hangups with both political parties. Sometimes it's hard to choose, but leftists in their current state remind me more of a religious cult, which is one reason I tend to shy away from them.  They have these socialist utopian ideals that human beings as a species are not going to be ready for any time soon. You go too soft in crime, and crime goes way up. You give people too many handouts, they just want more of them. This whole coddling of society just doesn't, and won't ever work.  That's not how evolution designed us to operate.

That, and I tend to like to vote for the underdog, just to keep a sense of gridlock in place. Human nature dictates you won't want any herd of people to have too much power. The more checks and balances to keep power distributed, the better. That said, the super rich will always pull society's strings whether you are in a capitalist society, communist, or whatever. Those at the top like power, they like control. In the end, vote for  what you think will be best for the long term growth of the nation, world, and species.

I tend to think that's progressives, but they have a few pet issues they fail spectacularly at, so much so it's hard to support them. In the end I default to supporting "democracy" or rule by voting, over autocracy, rule by dictators. Beyond that, specific issues aren't as important.  You will never please everybody.

I am NOT worried about Trump being a dictator or making himself president for life. As a Trump voter I myself would oppose that and do whatever I could to stop it. The system of checks and balances is important and there for a reason.  People have swallowed the mainstream media narratives, which is why they believe this stuff.  All media, including social media content creators on all "sides" , are sensationalist peddlers looking to extract you of your attention, clicks, and dollars and try to assimilate you into their frame, their narratives, their mindset, their echo chamber. Remember that and increase your peace of mind, and free your mind.

Edited December 5, 2023 by sholomar

[Twentyfirst]

Immature people voted for Biden and his wars because they hated Trump and his tweets. Have you seen grocery, gas, and home prices?