How do we Solve Birthrate crisis?

[Danioover9000]

@Basman

2 hours ago, Basman said:

I don't believe immigration is equal as a solution to actively working to better the birthrate since immigration doesn't tackle the underlying reasons for why people don't have kids. After a generation or two you are back to square one.

Immigration is a quick fix that can introduce its own set of problems in terms of the birthrate crisis. Especially if you import people from cultures that are less developed and you don't handle their integration well (or at all). Cultural identity should also be considered. If people feel like they aren't heard you get backlashes like Brexit.

Immigration is viable if done well but it shouldn't be your only playing card.

   This is a really good post that addresses that immigration crisis:

 

[ted73104]

20 hours ago, BlueOak said:

Further idealization of a handful of traits as being the definition of heroic masculinity will only make this problem worse.
@zazen

That's how people think right now. Rather than taking life as it comes and accepting imperfections or flaws.
People put an image in their head, the top 10% of partners, but ignore the 90% (also known as reality) People try to fake being whatever their preferred image is currently, and thus when imperfections to this ideal are revealed, people are intolerant to them.

If instead there was no ideal partner, just people, as complicated and messy as they are, there would be more acceptance of reality and what is. 

Absolutely brilliant take! The problem with the conservative view is that not only does it sound negative, its ideal can only be actualized by a few while the over 90% majority suffer when they chase this narrow-minded dream. Better to accept reality as it is.

[ted73104]

17 hours ago, Basman said:

I don't believe immigration is equal as a solution to actively working to better the birthrate since immigration doesn't tackle the underlying reasons for why people don't have kids. After a generation or two you are back to square one.

Immigration is a quick fix that can introduce its own set of problems in terms of the birthrate crisis. Especially if you import people from cultures that are less developed and you don't handle their integration well (or at all). Cultural identity should also be considered. If people feel like they aren't heard you get backlashes like Brexit.

Immigration is viable if done well but it shouldn't be your only playing card.

Totally agree, there is just not a viable solution so we can only kick the can down the road till a chance appears.

[martins name]

Sorry for the late reply have been down with a fever.

 

On 12/5/2023 at 4:31 PM, BlueOak said:

Can you explain why you think its incompatible with immigration?

I'm not sure what you mean. Economic immigration fixes the demographics problem but if it's by an undeveloped culture it comes with the cost of degenerating Western culture.

On 12/5/2023 at 4:31 PM, BlueOak said:

Its not just about where people live, its about all the things that go into supporting that, especially food.

The 3 percent that I wrote isn't space that is used for agriculture and resources, but the area that has buildings on them, which shows that buildings and villas aren't the problem when it comes to space even tho it's probably more like 6 percent if we count per habitable land area.  Also, England is 4x as densely populated as the habitable land area at large, making it a bad example.

 

On 12/6/2023 at 0:13 AM, bebotalk said:

So then Muslims have no right to freedom of religion? They'd have no human rights in Western countries, why? 

Not all Muslims are hardline or radical. If Muslims aren't allowed to practice, then neither should Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. 

I'm not saying that. Just that there should be a filter on people coming in. Everyone should be allowed to practice, but building permits for religious buildings shouldn't be granted. Preferably for all religions but maybe the native religion, in this case, Christianity, could maybe be compromised with. However, if people want to rent an office space to use as a mosque I think it should be allowed. 

On 12/6/2023 at 1:41 PM, bebotalk said:

Nearly half of all habitatle land on Earth is used for agriculture. With more people, then more land is required. This puts pressure on habitats and land for other uses. Whilst the urban land use total might be low, people still need food.

Out of the land we use buildings take up a small amount of it, meaning that, specifically, family houses aren't the problem.

[BlueOak]

@martins name
Japan, England, Western Europe etc are perfect examples, because the more developed the country the faster the birthrate is slowing. I did a European link though if you missed it, which will include eastern European states with less infrastructure also. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Land_use_statistics

There isn't near as much space as you are trying to make out there is. But I now acknowledge Agricutlure is a bigger problem, and its somewhat easier to reform farming than housing, and more beneficial also given just how much space is taken up in agriculture. Easy isn't the right word, reforming one of the most traditional industries is anything but easy, possible though.

Here is some very interesting data also showing grazing land being twice the area size of crops. (Then add in crops grown to feed animals also)

https://ourworldindata.org/land-use - This is the most useful land resource i've ever seen.

It also shows things like area per person dropping which is interesting. With things like cereals being the crop type taking up the most land. Lamb/Beef being the worst meat product per area size. With pigs being vastly more efficient. 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

4 hours ago, martins name said:

I'm not sure what you mean. Economic immigration fixes the demographics problem but if it's by an undeveloped culture it comes with the cost of degenerating Western culture.

I don't want to do stage green culture vs culture with you. Then have 5 people arguing one is better than the other. 

If you can refine this to a practical issue, we can discuss it separately.

Also, I hope you feel better.
 

[martins name]

@BlueOak I'm all good now thank you. I'll check out the links. Thanks.

[bebotalk]

On 14/12/2023 at 2:16 PM, martins name said:

Sorry for the late reply have been down with a fever.

 

I'm not sure what you mean. Economic immigration fixes the demographics problem but if it's by an undeveloped culture it comes with the cost of degenerating Western culture.

The 3 percent that I wrote isn't space that is used for agriculture and resources, but the area that has buildings on them, which shows that buildings and villas aren't the problem when it comes to space even tho it's probably more like 6 percent if we count per habitable land area.  Also, England is 4x as densely populated as the habitable land area at large, making it a bad example.

 

I'm not saying that. Just that there should be a filter on people coming in. Everyone should be allowed to practice, but building permits for religious buildings shouldn't be granted. Preferably for all religions but maybe the native religion, in this case, Christianity, could maybe be compromised with. However, if people want to rent an office space to use as a mosque I think it should be allowed. 

Out of the land we use buildings take up a small amount of it, meaning that, specifically, family houses aren't the problem.

Yes, and these people need food. It's just about buildings. Way to ignore facts merely since it doesn't fit your narrative. Whilst most land isn't used directly for urban use, humans still need to eat. 

[martins name]

@bebotalk I was specifically talking about the merits of apartment complexes vs villas. You haven't followed the conversation. I've never underestimated the amount of total land a human uses. Anyways I'm satisfied with what has been said in this thread and feel done with it.