Response To Leo's Rethinking Hallucination

[Juan Cruz Giusto]

Hey guys! First of all I would like to say that I loved Leo's blogpost talking about our understanding of hallucinations, mainstream society and psychedelics. I agree 100% since there is nothing really to say against it since we can prove this with just direct experience. But yes, I'm prone to add some of my insights and questions too. So here we go:

We believe in a world made out of matter. We can define matter as "something that is outside the mind". But, did we ever experienced this phenomena? Ask every human being that existed, or even animals (supposing, obviously, that they can talk) and ask them if they have ever knew something other than mind - perceptions, sensations, thoughts and images. WE NEVER EVER EVER KNEW SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF MIND, and the worst thing is that we believe our mind is made out of something called matter, which we have 0 proof of it  - and we never will. With our direct experience, and the direct experience of other, we can confidently say that there is nothing outside of mind - or consciousness or awareness - because we never encounter that!

Second, the only thing we know about the "external world" is perception - say vision and sounds. For example, we dont know a chair, we know the perception of it. That is what Leo was trying to say, we never knew an outside world independent of us, we only knew perception. And we are not alone here, every living thing on earth just knows perception. Let's take a dog as an illustration. Even though they see a different scale of colors, the only thing that the dog knows about the outside world is, guess what?... YES, PERCEPTION! So, the perception of the chair is not the chair itself; saying that a chair has an independent reality on its own is illusory, because we cannot make that claim. BUT! Even though a mirage is not true as water, is true as being light. As such, perception is not truth as an object but is 100% truth as a perception. I cannot prove that the outside world exist, but I can 100% confirm that perception exists. The question that remains is: "What is the substance of percetion?" And the answer is awareness, but we will have to meditate a couple of years to prove this claim. 

When we meditate, we have faith that, by analyzing our experience deep enough, we will reach a point in which we will be able to understand or know something that was unknown to us until that moment. Where does perception appear and disappear? When I open my eyes, there is the perception of the lamp, but when I close it, where did it go? 

The question that remains for me regarding the nature of hallucinations is: Even though nothing is outside of the mind and doesnt have an independent reality whatsoever, if a psycho sees a tree but me and 100 people don't, what is really happening here. 

This was my rant, Thank you

[Will Bigger]

There's a whole other class of hallucinogens, separate from psychedelics, called "deliriants." On deliriants, hallucinations are often completely mundane, absolutely realistic, suggesting that the mundane world is also hallucinations. Wouldn't reccomend taking them, tho. Unpleasant 

[Nahm]

the hallucinations and reality / matter are equally real or nonreal.  

[jse]

On 17/04/2017 at 9:51 PM, Will Bigger said:

There's a whole other class of hallucinogens, separate from psychedelics, called "deliriants."

Angel's Trumpet and Belladonna are such plants, nasty and dangerously potent deliriants.  Beware of "mushroom shakes" (commonly available in SE Asia) during the shroom off-season (dry weather).