Should you judge people on appearance?

[Carl-Richard]

What is a judgement and when does it become bad?

[StarStruck]

Who says god doesn’t judge? Who do you think you are? 

[Princess Arabia]

1 minute ago, StarStruck said:

Who says god doesn’t judge? Who do you think you are? 

How convenient. God is not a pawn to believe it's you when you choose. Tomorrow you're back to feeling unloved again by God.

[Princess Arabia]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What is a judgement and when does it become bad?

Beauty pageants judge beauty. The winner got judged. It's not about good or bad. Both are still judgements. Be clear of all judgements. Beauty pageants send the wrong message. Not saying I don't Judge, just saying it's something to strive for or at least lessen the frequency of it.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[StarStruck]

32 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

How convenient. God is not a pawn to believe it's you when you choose. Tomorrow you're back to feeling unloved again by God.

It is funny you say that because I’m a chess player. God is not a pawn but the king on the board. 

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What is a judgement and when does it become bad?

Bad can mean many things; not just the traditional negative connotation. You can also see someone being bad by being naughty.

Bad, in this sense, would actually good. The badder the better.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

Be clear of all judgements. Beauty pageants send the wrong message. Not saying I don't Judge, just saying it's something to strive for or at least lessen the frequency of it.

Why?

[Yimpa]

Leo’s type of gal

 

[Princess Arabia]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why?

Not sure what the "why" is referring to, judging pageants or lessening our judgements. There are other call to actions we can choose to make better options for ourselves and making an observation based on our preferences and choosing one thing over another isn't judging. Saying someone is mean, based on their relationship with you isn't judging. Saying you think someone is more beautiful in your eyes than another isn't judging one over the other. What's judging is saying homosexuality is wrong, abortion is wrong, that man cheated on his wife and he's a prick for doing that, is judging. Just saying he cheated on his wife isn't judging, that's just a statement. Pouring on your opinions about his cheating and classing it as wrong or right is judging. Do you see the difference. There is a subtle difference but there is a difference. 

I judge, so I'm not saying I don't. But I'm trying to reduce the times I do judge and trying to eliminate it all together which might not be possible but I'll try. Calling someone out for making judgements isn't judging. Showing someone why their judgements are hurting them and how it might be or is coming from a limited perspective isn't judging. Calling that girl ugly isn't judging. If a mom hits her child and you say that woman just beat her child isn't judging. When it becomes a judgement is when you say that mom is a bad mom for hitting her child. That's just my take on it.

[An young being]

29 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I judge, so I'm not saying I don't. But I'm trying to reduce the times I do judge and trying to eliminate it all together which might not be possible but I'll try. Calling someone out for making judgements isn't judging. Showing someone why their judgements are hurting them and how it might be or is coming from a limited perspective isn't judging. Calling that girl ugly isn't judging. If a mom hits her child and you say that woman just beat her child isn't judging. When it becomes a judgement is when you say that mom is a bad mom for hitting her child. That's just my take on it.

We have to judge people many times in our life if we care about our survival, but before making each statement, we have to be aware of what biases affect our judgement, is it a scientific bias, a religious bias, a psychological bias, an experential bias, an emotional bias, a selfish bias and so on. We have to give more weightage to scientific and experiential biases or similar logical ones more than others since they help us survive better, if we believe science and experiences are better judges and hence researches, of course. 

But if we wish to transcend survival itself, in my opinion, it is necessary to not have any judgement at all.

[Princess Arabia]

14 minutes ago, An young being said:

We have to judge people many times in our life if we care about our survival, but before making each statement, we have to be aware of what biases affect our judgement, is it a scientific bias, a religious bias, a psychological bias, an experential bias, an emotional bias, a selfish bias and so on. We have to give more weightage to scientific and experiential biases or similar logical ones more than others since they help us survive better, if we believe science and experiences are better judges and hence researches, of course. 

But if we wish to transcend survival itself, in my opinion, it is necessary to not have any judgement at all.

That's why I said what I said in my first few sentences that weren't quoted. That was the important part that went with what you're saying here, please go back and re-read it, starting from "there are other call to action....." Furthermore no judgement is needed for survival. Observations, choices, proper discernment, refusals and many more facets are required but not judgement.

Edit: I think I get it now. You guys description of judgement and mine are different. Using better judgement is not the same as judging someone. I think that's where the miscommunication is arising from.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Princess Arabia

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What is a judgement

The question wasn't for me but I still want to write. 

"judgement is an attempt to kill, what we believe has no right to exist" 

Basically it's inability to come to terms with something. A subtle condemnation.

Whereas pure observation is neutral, yet you still see differences. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Salvijus

[gettoefl]

there is bad there is neutral there is good

bad is my incomplete inner work

neutral is lack of attention

good is remembrance of god

[bebotalk]

On 05/12/2023 at 7:03 AM, Salvijus said:

The question wasn't for me but I still want to write. 

"judgement is an attempt to kill, what we believe has no right to exist" 

Basically it's inability to come to terms with something. A subtle condemnation.

Whereas pure observation is neutral, yet you still see differences. 

Judgment doesn't imply a value or moral appraisal. 

[Salvijus]

28 minutes ago, bebotalk said:

Judgment doesn't imply a value

What evaluation means then? 

[StarStruck]

God DOES judge. In fact it is the ultimate supreme judge. 

[Carl-Richard]

On 5.12.2023 at 6:43 AM, Princess Arabia said:

Not sure what the "why" is referring to, judging pageants or lessening our judgements. There are other call to actions we can choose to make better options for ourselves and making an observation based on our preferences and choosing one thing over another isn't judging. Saying someone is mean, based on their relationship with you isn't judging. Saying you think someone is more beautiful in your eyes than another isn't judging one over the other. What's judging is saying homosexuality is wrong, abortion is wrong, that man cheated on his wife and he's a prick for doing that, is judging. Just saying he cheated on his wife isn't judging, that's just a statement. Pouring on your opinions about his cheating and classing it as wrong or right is judging. Do you see the difference. There is a subtle difference but there is a difference.

So according to you, judgement involves an assertion of normativity (of how you should act; e.g. if it's wrong or bad, you shouldn't do it). In that case, saying that someone being fat probably means they lack self-control (the initial claim of the OP) is actually not a judgement. It's just a descriptive statement. You could say there is an implied normative statement in there, as the OP probably believes that a lack of self control is generally something you should avoid, but still, based on what he wrote in the first post, he was actually not judging according to you.

 

On 5.12.2023 at 6:43 AM, Princess Arabia said:

I judge, so I'm not saying I don't. But I'm trying to reduce the times I do judge and trying to eliminate it all together which might not be possible but I'll try. Calling someone out for making judgements isn't judging. Showing someone why their judgements are hurting them and how it might be or is coming from a limited perspective isn't judging. Calling that girl ugly isn't judging. If a mom hits her child and you say that woman just beat her child isn't judging. When it becomes a judgement is when you say that mom is a bad mom for hitting her child. That's just my take on it.

I believe viewing judgement in the way you understand it as something to generally avoid is a wrong or at least an inaccurate way to frame it. It's framed as a quantitative question: less is better. I believe you should strive to judge appropriately, i.e. a qualitative question: better is better. How exactly you go about that is up to you. I believe judgement in the way you've defined it is something we do all the time (like right now), and again, it's not something to avoid, but rather something to do right. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

On 5.12.2023 at 8:03 AM, Salvijus said:

The question wasn't for me but I still want to write. 

"judgement is an attempt to kill, what we believe has no right to exist" 

Basically it's inability to come to terms with something. A subtle condemnation.

Whereas pure observation is neutral, yet you still see differences. 

So your definition is similar to @Princess Arabia in that it has to do with asserting normativity or a "moral condemnation" (a more charged way of putting it). I personally am more flexible with how these words are used: you can make a descriptive judgement, a moral judgement, a judicial judgement, a logical judgement, an intuitive judgement, etc.

Edited December 6, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Princess Arabia]

13 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

So according to you, judgement involves an assertion of normativity (of how you should act; e.g. if it's wrong or bad, you shouldn't do it). In that case, saying that someone being fat probably means they lack self-control (the initial claim of the OP) is actually not a judgement. It's just a descriptive statement. You could say there is an implied normative statement in there, as the OP probably believes that a lack of self control is generally something you should avoid, but still, based on what he wrote in the first post, he was actually not judging according to you

To me, just saying someone is fat, isn't judging. Example 1. She's fat - not judging. Example 2. She's fat and that's disgusting - judging. 1. He said some inappropriate things to me - not judging. 2. He's an asshole for saying some inappropriate things to me - judging. You're adding stories behind your observations. That's observing with judgement. Observing without judgement is observing something for what it is without making condescending remarks about what you're observing. It's hard to explain because of the subtle difference. 

We all put stories and meaning to things we observe, that's what we do as humans but we can observe, analyze compare and explain without being condescending and labelling things without judging them. That's the best way I can describe what I'm trying to say. Making a judgement call about a decision you have to make is not judging, calling someone's decision after them making a judgement call silly or stupid is judging. Saying you think that judgement call you made is not a wise decision isn't judging, that's an opinion. Saying someone is silly and foolish for making a particular decision is also an opinion but it's still judging because you're not calling the decision silly you're calling the person silly. I'm trying to explain the subtle difference very delicately the best I know how, but I can see it in my mind's eye the difference, but it's nit easy to explain on paper.

[Princess Arabia]

48 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

I believe judgement in the way you've defined it is something we do all the time, and again, it's not something to avoid, but rather something to do right. 

I'm not really concerned with what humans do all the time because humanity is in trouble as far as what i've observed and all of us experience emotional pain and a lot have traumas and emotional baggage and so on. We think it's all normal and we try to fix it externally thinking it's something out there that caused it. I'm more in the business of going against the grain and normality of human behavior (including my own) to try to alleviate the amount of suffering we put ourselves through. What causes it and how to reduce it.

I look at normal human behavior and try to put the pieces together to see if those behaviors can be traced back to why we suffer and try to see what we can do differently in the way we think which leads to the actions we take which determines our way of being.