Which (big) religion is holding its members back the most?

[Danioover9000]

@PurpleTree

6 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

I‘ll say Islam.

it seems to me that there’s less creativity coming from islamic countries in the past few hundred years compared to parts of europe, u.s, asia.

also in europe there many people who come from islamic countries and stick too much to their religion 

i‘m open to hear other arguments though

   I'd partly agree, especially the caliphate interpretations of Islam. This could be one exception that I'd say that Islam should become more secularist and humanist in order to be compatible to most modern westernized countries. Islam and it's old testament versions, including the caliphate Islam would have it's followers destroy iconography and buildings in those westernized countries, as well as justify self termination of infidels, but newer interpretations, with some secularism and humanism, and even rationalism and atheism here makes Islam compatible.

   Next would be Christianity and Judaism, not the orthodox versions but the newer secularist interpretations of them, as egalitarianism and feminism, as well as capitalism and neoliberalism, and in this case secularism, humanism and atheism have corrupted the Christian orthodoxy. Westernized countries suffer declining birthrates, from Japan to South Korea, to Canada and the USA, even Russia and China is declining due to legalizing abortions decades earlier than western countries. Higher divorce rates from no fault divorce thanks to feminism ideology making women be more like men and having them be too logical and careers orientated rather than helping them integrate their femininity and embracing womanhood or motherhood but instead pushing them to be hyper sexual liberals, which leads to committment issues to long term relationships, higher divorce rates and broken homes as more single parent and single mom households are increasing. Bigger democracy also is contributing to this toxic dynamic so I posit a limited democracy, in a republican fashion or even an autocratic to democratic switching just like with the Roman empire did with the senate and the emperor rulership system, and to bring it back a bit to patriarchy and some theocracy compatible to modern times.

[Tanz]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

Science becomes the most dangerous one when it is in the hands of religious fanatics.

They don't have access to it because they are often not educated.  When you look at mass shooters and terrorist, they often hardly have a high school education and come from broken families.  

All you have to do is look at the military capabilities of America, Israel vs the poor Arab nations.  For every person the extremist kill on the "good" side, hundreds to thousands of their people die.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Tanz

[Danioover9000]

@Tanz

7 hours ago, Tanz said:

If you are talking about being more conscious and understanding that we are not made of matter, yes.  
The ego manufactured progress so science is the best at it which is why the world is so hung up on it.  

Science creates blind spots and people take what science says at face value.  At least in religion, deep down inside people will question it internally.  

The greatest lies are always unseen and the ego manufactured itself to hide the truth from you.  There is no science that can bring people to the truth

All the criticism you have for religion science has done them better.  I have both a  biological science and technology background and have earned a good living doing so but it doesn't stop me from criticizing it.  Science is a double edge sword.       

   True, based on many developmental factors like stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, ego development, many lines of development in life and societal domains, and ideological differences indoctrinated by culture, states, family upbringing, and information ecology that big companies bmanufacture consent from the common people. I think this whole science versus religion has created at least three views:

   The religious dogmatic, from either theists or atheists. The scientific materialists/moral objectivists, from either side. And the Moral subjectivists/relativists/post modernists, some from either side of the argument of which ethical system is best: Christianity(religious/theocratic) versus humanism/secularism.

1. Main problems with the dogmatic religious worldview, theists to atheists, is blind belief in their worldviews. Obviously pre rational stage religious nationalists or theists will blindly believe in their religion or nation, and follow doctrine to the letter, and have mostly linear and binary cognitive processes of good/bad, right/wrong, with significantly reduced gray areas in between. Santa Claus either does or doesn't exist, and little philosophical thought or open mindedness is entertained to maybe think in metaphors, that maybe Santa Claus does exists but not literally, but metaphorically as a man in disguise, or that Santa Claus doesn't exist literally, but metaphorically as an idea/concept/belief during Christmas time and celebrations to symbolize gifts and presents. People of binay and literal cognition, or pre rational stage struggle with metaphorical thinking.

2. Scientific materialist, either side. Mostly a hardcore rationalist and logician, typically leans to atheism but some are theist and use reasoning and logic, and some metaphorical thinking to justify God's existence, which the opposite ideology of atheists also use logic and reasoning to justify god not existing, justify a non-belief in god. in this rational stage of thinking, the spiritual, the non-duality, the paranormal and supernatural is reduced to stereotypes and misrepresentations as such experiences defy the laws of physics and laws of nature, or rather naturalism, which ironically science and scientism branches from natural philosophy. These, too, dogmatically believe in the physical and material, while downplaying the immaterial like subjectivity and qualia, which is hard to measure and quantify, and what is hard to measure can't discern it's value, and what you can't logically discern is lowered in the hierarchy of values and importance.

3. Post modernist/relativist/moral subjectivist. Typically the trans-rational stage, of which this type of thinking is another order above the rational in that it recognizes and is cognitive of something beyond logic and rationality, and finally other states of consciousness, spirituality, non-duality, the paranormal and supernatural are taken seriously. Categorical thinking, linear thinking is transcended and a type of non-linear, beyond category, intuitional, emotional and holistic thinking starts to happen, and that that person starts to see the big picture of what's going on around them, that systemic thinking now starts to happen genuinely.

   Each of the triad of views here, in regards to this science versus religion and which has a better ethical foundation, has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Each triad of self identifying roles and positions positions itself as the correct path to resolving this issue at the heart of this debate, yet the triads involved also are mostly blind to their weaknesses and sometimes not realize that each triad isn't fixed and the one absolute correct answer, but each triad, if the arguer is flexible, offers different lenses to look at this problem with.

[PurpleTree]

No religion but rap/ gangsta rap can also hold people back quite a bit. Although it’s hard to say.

[Danioover9000]

@PurpleTree

31 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

No religion but rap/ gangsta rap can also hold people back quite a bit. Although it’s hard to say.

   Not limited to gangsta rap and rap culture, but black culture and Ebonics and how as a culture it evolved throughout history, starting from Scotland to then migrate to the southern states where hillbilly and cracker culture permeates, and that machismo and bravado then travels northwards:

 

[PurpleTree]

27 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@PurpleTree

   Not limited to gangsta rap and rap culture, but black culture and Ebonics and how as a culture it evolved throughout history, starting from Scotland to then migrate to the southern states where hillbilly and cracker culture permeates, and that machismo and bravado then travels northwards:

 

Well even in europe.

i’m no german but i understand german and know their rap scene. Most (gangsta) rappers there aren’t black but mostly arabs, some germans, turks, balkans, some russians etc

and for sure it influences kids in a bad way

it’s wild though people like 50 cent who is mostly straight edge and doesn’t do drugs or drinks but he raps about it and then kids listen to it

i do think gansta rap helps to turn kids into materialistic superficial retards

Edited November 30, 2023 by PurpleTree

[Danioover9000]

@PurpleTree

31 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Well even in europe.

i’m no german but i understand german and know their rap scene. Most (gangsta) rappers there aren’t black but mostly arabs, some germans, turks, balkans, some russians etc

and for sure it influences kids in a bad way

it’s wild though people like 50 cent who is mostly straight edge and doesn’t do drugs or drinks but he raps about it and then kids listen to it

i do think gansta rap helps to turn kids into materialistic superficial retards

   Putting aside that you merely said that to piss me off, I'd partly agree that rap culture and rap music has some subliminal effects onto the minds of the listeners. I do still freestyle raps though as a creative outlet. I guess taking 100% responsibility in what you consume and some of the negative effects would be mitigated, like listen to other types of music or consume other types of art besides rap only.