Which (big) religion is holding its members back the most?

[PurpleTree]

Generally in these times?

 

[PurpleTree]

I‘ll say Islam.

it seems to me that there’s less creativity coming from islamic countries in the past few hundred years compared to parts of europe, u.s, asia.

also in europe there many people who come from islamic countries and stick too much to their religion 

i‘m open to hear other arguments though

[Tanz]

Science, its the greatest illusion and the newest of the religions that exist.  People are unaware that it is a religion which makes it the most dangerous.  

[PurpleTree]

Just now, Tanz said:

Science, its the greatest illusion and the newest of the religions that exist.  People are unaware that it is a religion which makes it the most dangerous.  

So you‘re saying science holds people back the most

alright

[Tanz]

If you are talking about being more conscious and understanding that we are not made of matter, yes.  
The ego manufactured progress so science is the best at it which is why the world is so hung up on it.  

Science creates blind spots and people take what science says at face value.  At least in religion, deep down inside people will question it internally.  

The greatest lies are always unseen and the ego manufactured itself to hide the truth from you.  There is no science that can bring people to the truth

All the criticism you have for religion science has done them better.  I have both a  biological science and technology background and have earned a good living doing so but it doesn't stop me from criticizing it.  Science is a double edge sword.       

Edited November 30, 2023 by Tanz

[PurpleTree]

3 minutes ago, Tanz said:

If you are talking about being more conscious and understanding that we are not made of matter, yes.  
The ego manufactured progress so science is the best at it which is why the world is so hung up on it.  

Science creates blind spots and people take what science says at face value.  At least in religion, deep down inside people will question it internally.  

The greatest lies are always unseen and the ego manufactured itself to hide the truth from you.  There is no science that can bring people to the truth

Doesn’t science say we’re made up of weird stuff like atoms/quarks and mostly empty space not just „matter“ and advocates for things like meditation?

[Tanz]

@PurpleTree So does spirituality.  For every terrorist act with a riffle, there is a drone strike with a larger foot print of destruction.  Ultimately it is love that will gather people together.  Something science does have a good history of doing.  Some kind of healthy balance needs to be achieved, the Sam Harris atheist movement has belittled ideas like compassion.  

All it takes is a virus in a lab or an AI that can nuke us all to wipe out all of life.  As far as religion goes, as people start to develop out of survival, the more they will see thru all the bad ideas and concepts of religion.  

[PurpleTree]

8 minutes ago, Tanz said:

@PurpleTree So does spirituality.  For every terrorist act with a riffle, there is a drone strike with a larger foot print of destruction.  Ultimately it is love that will gather people together.  Something science does have a good history of doing.  Some kind of healthy balance needs to be achieved, the Sam Harris atheist movement has belittled ideas like compassion.  

All it takes is a virus in a lab or an AI that can nuke us all to wipe out all of life.  As far as religion goes, as people start to develop out of survival, the more they will see thru all the bad ideas and concepts of religion.  

alright that’s your opinion 

i think islam is holding people back much more generally 

i‘ve seen leos video on „scientism“ though and also heard other people talk about it

Edited November 30, 2023 by PurpleTree

[Tanz]

@PurpleTree Ive lived in a developed country with a very strong Muslim community.  They naturally drift away from radical ideas.

The news is propagating Islamophobia because in their religion is a sin to hoard cash and keep it for yourself in excess.  Their religion is closer to socialism and communism.  That's why the west unknowingly hates Islam. In contrast the Jews are the polar opposite to Islam, this is why they cant start eachother... The irony is they don't even know why.  Both groups do a great job sticking together and have no idea how similar they are from each other.  Despite of the low number of Jews there are in most places their ability to stick together better than any other race, this is why they are so successful in everything.  This makes Jewish people more paranoid because they feel the whole world will gang up against them once people realize how good they are at working together.  

Edited November 30, 2023 by Tanz

[PurpleTree]

12 minutes ago, Tanz said:

@PurpleTree Ive lived in a developed country with a very strong Muslim community.  They naturally drift away from radical ideas.

The news is propagating Islamophobia because in their religion is a sin to hoard cash and keep it for yourself in excess.  Their religion is closer to socialism and communism.  That's why the west unknowingly hates Islam. In contrast the Jews are the polar opposite to Islam, this is why they cant start eachother... The irony is they don't even know why.  Both groups do a great job sticking together and have no idea how similar they are from each other.  Despite of the low number of Jews there are in most places their ability to stick together better than any other race, this is why they are so successful in everything.  This makes Jewish people more paranoid because they feel the whole world will gang up against them once people realize how good they are at working together.  

lol

[BlueOak]

Science tells people they are made of energy. Not matter. @Tanz

It's a required discipline. Like anything else it depends who is using or referencing it. If I were to reference science i'd give you a dose of Dan Winter or Marko Rodin to debate. Both of which use spiritual concepts to pose theories, theories which are required to advance science, even if much of what they say is impractical or not used.

Marko Rodin's Vortex maths for example would be an incredible leap from binary in computing speed. It reduces all equations to 9 inputs, rather than 2, so for receiving large data it'd be at least 5 times as fast even in a simplistic form, probably many more given it can handle incredibly large numbers much more efficiently than binary, taking them in any order at any time.

Vortex Maths can take any number of values and no matter the order they come in, or the order they are calculated, always end up with the same result. For large input that is incredibly time-saving.

If its not obvious what I am doing below is adding the digits together within each value, in any order to reduce them to a single digit. So 11 is 1+1 = 2. 102 is 1+0+2 = 3 but I am doing this in any order.

125 + 612 + 1021 = 35 + 72 + 121 = 8 + 9 + 31 = 17 + 4 = 21 = 2 +1 =  3
125 + 612 + 1021 = 17 + 63 + 103 = 8 + 9 + 13 = 17 + 4 = 21 = 2 + 1 = 3

Take a more wild example to demonstrate sequence makes no difference, the reduction is always the same.
1021 + (612 + 125) = | 6+1+2 = 9 | 1+2+5 = 8 | 8 + 9 = 17 | 1021 + 17 = 1038 = 1 + 0 + 38 = 39 = 3 + 9 = 12 = 1+2 = 3.

I'm not a microchip designer but to say for example this has no application would be short-sighted if you think about 6000 numbers being stored as 1 out 9 results, or maybe a number that is a billion digits, that could be calculated to a smaller one very quickly. Here you could stop maybe at a two-digit result for example and have 1 out of 99 results done in a specific order if that was preferable (the top two options), whatever is required for best practice. On the board itself, you could use 9 switches in a cluster, or perhaps just 1 switch aligning with the correct direction.

Why do I mention this, because that all came from a marriage of science and spirituality. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by BlueOak

[Nivsch]

@Tanz Yes I know it from mental health in how the mainstream thinking is shallow and creates victim mentality, in an excuse of "scientific" facts that are very limited in the best case, and even not really scientific in the worse case.

That is true that many people are in a level of self-awareness that they don't have any other realistic alternative at the level they are at, and there is a place for the mantal health system as a safety net for them.

But overall, this system is so limited in its thinking and in many ways it is also suppresses people from going higher in their self trust and this is a big problem.

I got to reduce significantly my ocd only because I decided to trust myself and my brain's reasons for doing what it does and stopped thinking about things it does as just shallow "malfunctions" and the brain as "stupid" like the toxic mainstream attitude wants us to think.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

All the religions are limited, flawed, delusional, toxic, hypocrite, dangerous and holding back the people to some extent.

But the religion which masters the art of holding people back is Islam. Muslims tend to be rigid and don't respect or honor any rules or law except the Sharia law.

While Christians, Jews, Hindus are more flexible in that regard.

[Sucuk Ekmek]

None, I never seen a single believer. There is no holding back.

[PurpleTree]

31 minutes ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

None, I never seen a single believer. There is no holding back.

That’s good news

[MarkKol]

It depends on the country/continent, these Europeans are really starting to get pissed off at Muslims. I'm sure everyone's heard about the new trump in the Netherlands. 

He views Islam as a terrorist religion pretty much, he wants to ban the Quran, shut down all Mosques, and ban Muslims from entering the Netherlands.

He is also anti-EU and wants to leave the European Union just because his anti-Muslim vision is not possible in it.

Talk about a grudge

I wouldn't be surprised if other countries like Sweden adopt this view too. There are statistics going around the Internet basically saying that Muslims do most of the rape crimes and crimes in general etc...

Did I mention he wants a partnership with Russia is pro-Putin? but that's off-topic.

 

Edited November 30, 2023 by MarkKol

[Tanz]

@BlueOak My point is the problem is the consciousness of the people and not the tool or ideology.  When you give someone something powerful they will abuse it and do more harm.  Science is the most powerful tool right now therefore its the most dangerous.   

Edited November 30, 2023 by Tanz

[Schizophonia]

1 hour ago, MarkKol said:

It depends on the country/continent, these Europeans are really starting to get pissed off at Muslims. I'm sure everyone's heard about the new trump in the Netherlands. 

He views Islam as a terrorist religion pretty much, he wants to ban the Quran, shut down all Mosques, and ban Muslims from entering the Netherlands.

He is also anti-EU and wants to leave the European Union just because his anti-Muslim vision is not possible in it.

Talk about a grudge

I wouldn't be surprised if other countries like Sweden adopt this view too. There are statistics going around the Internet basically saying that Muslims do most of the rape crimes and crimes in general etc...

Did I mention he wants a partnership with Russia is pro-Putin? but that's off-topic.

 

Europeans don't have much against Islam, they just don't like a significant portion of Arabs, nationals of Middle Eastern countries in general. The same goes for blacks, to a lesser extent.
It's not even fundamentally a racial issue, there is a ton of sociological bias but the fact is these individuals are out of step with Western norms and their demographics are strongly linked to an increase in crime.

But since Western Europeans have been harassed by anti-racist propaganda from a very young age, then the debate is naturally diverted towards more tolerable issues like "Islam" or at best "civilizational conflicts".

[An young being]

17 minutes ago, Tanz said:

@BlueOak .  Science is the most powerful tool right now therefore its the most dangerous.   

Science becomes the most dangerous one when it is in the hands of religious fanatics.

[MarkKol]

33 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

Europeans don't have much against Islam, they just don't like a significant portion of Arabs

Isn't that like the same thing?