The Israel Palestine War is not Real

[jaylimix]

This is the only place I can ask this question.

Leo mentioned in one of his videos that "your mother" is not real.

So here is how I can see the war as not real.

Neurons firing in our brains, our minds' features are activated:

Conceptualizing, imagining, deciding what's fact/fiction, deciding what's lies/fakery/propaganda.

Also have a mind-body emotional response, just chemistry, just physical reality.

From what is mentioned above, can we conclude that it's all simply a mind's game, just physiological chemistry?

What do you guys think?

Are we all doomed to be stuck in mental content and body chemistry?

Edited November 28, 2023 by jaylimix

[kenway]

Here's what not real:-

The idea that Israel is trying to root out Hamas in order to defend itself, is not real.

The idea that Israel sees Palestinian civilians on a parallel with Israel civilians, is not real.

The idea that if Hamas didn't exist there would be peace, is not real.

The idea that this recent incursion started on Oct 7th is not real.

The credibility that when Israel does it, they are called prisoners, but when Hamas does it, they are called hostages, is not real.

The credibility that an ethno-state, let alone a genocidal ethno-state, can be a part of an advanced civilisation, is not real.

Anything that comes out of Netanyahu's mouth, is not real.

The premise that the IDF are heros, is not real.

The premise that the IDF are not deliberately targeting hospitals, schools and refugee centers, is not real.

*

Evil maybe theatre, that's true. But if evil did exist, Israel would embody it with artistic perfection.

If not for death and destruction, but for the disrespect and deception.

And that isreal.

 

[Buck Edwards]

It's one chimp against another. 

[Nivsch]

@jaylimix What being Imaged is the simplisticity of things becuase our mind does superhighway shortcuts and what we see are schemes of reality that are partially or mostly false. The more you develop yourself the more you see the complexity and those schemes dissolve and upgrade themselves.

To say that everything is equally imaginary is a simplification I don't agree with.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch

[jaylimix]

@Nivsch But what did @Leo Gura meant when he said "your mother is not real" in one of his videos ?

 

[PurpleTree]

2 minutes ago, jaylimix said:

@Nivsch But what did @Leo Gura meant when he said "your mother is not real" in one of his videos ?

 

Solipsism

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The idea that Israel is trying to root out Hamas in order to defend itself, is not real.

So what is your seggestion to prevent another 7.10?

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The idea that Israel sees Palestinian civilians on a parallel with Israel civilians, is not real.

Sounds logic but thats how the brain works to prefer your tribe this is a deep wiring,

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The idea that if Hamas didn't exist there would be peace, is not real.

Agree. The problem is broader.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The idea that this recent incursion started on Oct 7th is not real.

We left gaza in 2005 providing them every day basic needs they can't provide because they don't have maritime and air ways for good reasons.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The credibility that when Israel does it, they are called prisoners, but when Hamas does it, they are called hostages, is not real.

Israel let its prisoner humane conditions and even the ability to do a degree. This fake symmery is absurd. There is a night and day difference.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The credibility that an ethno-state, let alone a genocidal ethno-state, can be a part of an advanced civilisation, is not real.

What a convincing slogan. Muslims and Christians have 100 countries. Jews have one ethno state and need it to keep deffend their values. The second part is utterly absurd.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

Anything that comes out of Netanyahu's mouth, is not real.

More than 90% I agree.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The premise that the IDF are heros, is not real.

They are in their 20's and risking their lives but it won't convince you because you are emotionally against them anyway.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

The premise that the IDF are not deliberately targeting hospitals, schools and refugee centers, is not real.

You are totally wrong here.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

28 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

So what is your seggestion to prevent another 7.10?

 

Disconnect the life support of religious Zionism. You will quickly find that Hamas disappears soon after.

 

37 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Sounds logic but thats how the brain works to prefer your tribe this is a deep wiring,

 

Only true for some people. The trick is to transcend that.

Family is a low consciousness addiction. In order for there to be loved ones, by relative definition there has to be unloved ones, and that is a spiritual mistake. Remember, the trick is not to perfect the animal mindset, but to transcend it. If you love family and fear death, you're doing it wrong.

 

42 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

We left gaza in 2005 providing them every day basic needs they can't provide because they don't have maritime and air ways for good reasons.

 

You didn't leave anything. You announced to the world you were sacrificing something, but in truth you pulled out the Israeli civilians, maintained control of the borders, and then over the years that followed you terrorised and killed all that remained.

 

45 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Jews have one ethno state and need it to keep deffend their values.

 

I'm still not convinced Israel is even a Jewish state. I'm told there is a hilarious joke told in Chinese villages:-

Q: How do you know Israel isn't a Jewish state?

A: Because the Jews are intelligent.

It's an inappropriate joke for sure, but the fact that it is commonplace in Chinese villages should tell you a lot.

 

48 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

You are totally wrong here.

 

Dahiya doctrine.

 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

but in truth you pulled out the Israeli civilians, maintained control of the borders,

So you are saying that we control any state we have border with, according to your logic.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

Dahiya doctrine.

To destroy entire neigborhoods AFTER their citizens were asked to leave 20 times with variety of means no other country in the world did it in the past.

1 hour ago, kenway said:

Hamas disappears soon after

Like Isis has disappeared by itself after US left Iraq.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

1 minute ago, Nivsch said:

So you are saying that we control any state we have border with, according to your logic.

It's not my logic. Do you think I'm the only one using the term occupied?

Would think a dangerous game to try to minimise my input based on a lexicon understood by the majority.

 

[Danioover9000]

   Locked.

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

It's not my logic. Do you think I'm the only one using the term occupied?

Would think a dangerous game to try to minimise my input based on a lexicon understood by the majority.

 

I understand, so Israel is the occupier from the very reason it exists.

And so every other country in the world which its establishment was on the account of the nearby country which means all countries.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch

[kenway]

13 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

To destroy entire neigborhoods AFTER their citizens were asked to leave 20 times with variety of means no other country in the world did it in the past.

 

What does that mean though? Do you really understand the implications of what you're saying? Correct me by all means if I misunderstand you, but to be clear:-

Israel does not have any right AT ALL to destroy entire Palestinian neighbourhoods. It doesn't matter how many times you asked. Are you sure that this is really your connection to morality on this? That the IDF asked multiple times to leave? You have no right to compel people to leave their homes and then anniihililate them after they refuse to comply to your militarily teenage demands.

 

13 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Like Isis has disappeared by itself after US left Iraq.

 

Financial traders know full well that the markets know best. I'm willing to wager that if you dismantled ultra Zionism, then ISIS and Hamas would fall pretty soon after.

Smart people surely understand this.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by kenway

[Danioover9000]

@jaylimix

2 hours ago, jaylimix said:

This is the only place I can ask this question.

Leo mentioned in one of his videos that "your mother" is not real.

So here is how I can see the war as not real.

Neurons firing in our brains, our minds' features are activated:

Conceptualizing, imagining, deciding what's fact/fiction, deciding what's lies/fakery/propaganda.

Also have a mind-body emotional response, just chemistry, just physical reality.

From what is mentioned above, can we conclude that it's all simply a mind's game, just physiological chemistry?

What do you guys think?

Are we all doomed to be stuck in mental content and body chemistry?

   It depends how you look at this issue based on many developmental factors like Spiral Dynamics stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing/traits, 9 stages of ego development, Integral Theory's other lines of development in life and societal domains, and ideological beliefs indoctrinated by culture and family structure, and self biases and preferences.

   However, if you want to convince and persuade, your argument is faulty because it depends on one internet Guru's post modernist, moral relativist/subjectivist's interpretations of spirituality and non-duality and other religious teachings and self help teachings. Saying that 'your mother is not real' is not going to fly with the majority of the populace, as you'll be left making fallacies and appeals to ethos and pathos way more than logos, and reverse justifying from hidden assumptions that are faulty to begin with from a persuasion view.

   You could argue that it's fundamentally mind games, and it's all illusory, but you'll have to bring up neuroscience and explain through that and how the brain receives information via it's sense organs and through it's neural pathways and so on. However, to then jump to the Israel/Palestinian topic from that is even more damaging to your credibility and persuasion because it's a real life external event effecting lives in that region. To claim moral subjectivity in that case is weaponizing this post modernist thinking to downplay the severity of that conflict. It's not merely moral subjectivity when Israel has been expanding slowly for 80+ years, taking territory from Palestinians, reducing their rights overtime due to the ethnostate and Zionists in charge. That's not moral subjectivity, that's actually happened and happening in conjunction to this HAMAs war. It's not merely mind games when HAMAs launched it's attack past Israel's border, and it's not illusory from Israel's point of view to feel angered and outraged by HAMA's attack and taking hostages.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Danioover9000

[kenway]

10 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

I understand, so Israel is the occupier from the very reason it exists

My word, wake up brother. Let's just cut the mud for a moment.

Israel doesn't want a non-Jewish population to be in the majority. That is akin to a European country not wanting a non-White population to be in the majority.

This is why Zionism = Nazism.

Maybe time for a cold shower and to do some soul searching.

 

[PurpleTree]

4 minutes ago, kenway said:

My word, wake up brother. Let's just cut the mud for a moment.

Israel doesn't want a non-Jewish population to be in the majority. That is akin to a European country not wanting a non-White population to be in the majority.

This is why Zionism = Nazism.

Maybe time for a cold shower and to do some soul searching.

 

Why european, you could say akin to an arab, asian, african country not wanting a white or whatever majority 

[kenway]

2 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Why european, you could say akin to an arab, asian, african country not wanting a white or whatever majority 

For sure.

But Europe is a location where Nazism is understood in it's most classic form. 

[Danioover9000]

@kenway @PurpleTree

28 minutes ago, kenway said:

My word, wake up brother. Let's just cut the mud for a moment.

Israel doesn't want a non-Jewish population to be in the majority. That is akin to a European country not wanting a non-White population to be in the majority.

This is why Zionism = Nazism.

Maybe time for a cold shower and to do some soul searching.

 

   True, seems like that collective trauma still follows them to the present. This is one example of a collective ego shadow from a past stage red/blue society, experiencing the horrors of the holocaust, then Israel being a staunch stage blue society has to survive for itself. It's a case study of both Spiral Dynamics stages of development and Carl Jung's Architypes and shadow aspects just on the collective scale.

22 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Why european, you could say akin to an arab, asian, african country not wanting a white or whatever majority 

   It depends on other developmental factors, and this also involves stage blue societies.

17 minutes ago, kenway said:

For sure.

But Europe is a location where Nazism is understood in it's most classic form. 

   Sure. Just briefly, this whole Israel/Palestinian conflict is very tricky to deal with because if we negotiate with Israel and Israel shows weakness, then Israel would endanger it's own survival agendas to Iran, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and other middle eastern countries that are stages red/blue and some stage purple in that region. It's a literal culture war for Israel as Israel is itself a sovereign nation/country modernized and westernized, which makes it of higher development in comparison. Also, by negotiating with not just Palestine but all the other neighboring societies there of Islam majority, we have to be careful not to make them pacify and compromise too much or else Israel would keep expanding and taking lands from them, not to mention it's other geopolitical enemies could take advantage. It's a tricky issue so far for the past 80+ years resolving this Israel/Palestinian conflict, trying to get both sides to negotiate and compromise enough for peace but not too much that their own agendas and self determination is at risk.

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, kenway said:

srael does not have any right AT ALL to destroy entire Palestinian neighbourhoods. It doesn't matter how many times you asked. Are you sure that this is really your connection to morality on this? That the IDF asked multiple times to leave? You have no right to compel people to leave their homes and then anniihililate them after they refuse to comply to your militarily teenage demands.

This is naiveness because hamas uses many neighborhoods as fortifications to the day IDF will come. This is absolutely critical for them to survive (along with assimilaing behind civilian purposely) because they know IDF is stronger. 

If you think some part of that is a collecitve punishment you will have to explain why you think that and then we can discuss if it does make sense.

2 hours ago, kenway said:

Israel doesn't want a non-Jewish population to be in the majority.

Right because Judaism is not like a physical quality as you say.

This is much more than this.

Judaism is a common character of a large group of people which expresses their unique values that very significantly goes against the values of the nations surrounding. A Jew majority is critical in order to deffent our country character and values.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Nivsch