Blackpill / redpill YouTuber popularizing spiral dynamics and integral theory?

[Twentyfirst]

34 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Twentyfirst

   The main issue with feminism is deep denial that the patriarchy makes and gives rights for women, by men. Feminists don't want to admit they exist because some men chose to enforce their ideology and protect it from other men who don't like feminism. Equal legal standing was made and enforced by men to begin with. Now what if some women don't benefit from Feminism, and femunism as an ideology is increasing women's mental health issues, making them act like men and act with too much rationality? What if we need to regulate feminism in some places?

Even the patriarchy they don't understand. They think that all men are included and benefit in the patriarchy when it's only the top 0.001 percent of men and the rest of us are just as enslaved as the women are

[Danioover9000]

@Twentyfirst

29 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Even the patriarchy they don't understand. They think that all men are included and benefit in the patriarchy when it's only the top 0.001 percent of men and the rest of us are just as enslaved as the women are

   That's also true that other men can create and give/take away rights from other men, as well a give/take away rights from women and even children if some of them harm other people. That doesn't mean Feminism is 100% right, because that plus egalitarianism, secularism, and Neoliberalism is contributing to declining birthrates in Japan, South Korea, Canada, USA, some European countries, Russia and China, and the UK. Most westernized countries have this birthrate issue and high divorce rates, and most westernized countries have to source from other populations with a theocratic religious background, countries that can reproduce itself. How can this be good for this western valued countries in the future if they don't integrate religion and theocratic principles, and just let individualism and liberalism morally bankrupt the country? In fact most humanism and secularism heavily borrows from religion and theocracy.

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Twentyfirst

   That's also true that other men can create and give/take away rights from other men, as well a give/take away rights from women and even children if some of them harm other people. That doesn't mean Feminism is 100% right, because that plus egalitarianism, secularism, and Neoliberalism is contributing to declining birthrates in Japan, South Korea, Canada, USA, some European countries, Russia and China, and the UK. Most westernized countries have this birthrate issue and high divorce rates, and most westernized countries have to source from other populations with a theocratic religious background, countries that can reproduce itself. How can this be good for this western valued countries in the future if they don't integrate religion and theocratic principles, and just let individualism and liberalism morally bankrupt the country? In fact most humanism and secularism heavily borrows from religion and theocracy.

Agree with you 100%. I avoid this new age thinking like the plague and people who adopt it too

[bebotalk]

23 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

The issue with feminism is that men and women already have equal legal standing

Wht's wrong with that? I don't believe anybody should be a second class citizen. 

[bebotalk]

20 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Twentyfirst

   That's also true that other men can create and give/take away rights from other men, as well a give/take away rights from women and even children if some of them harm other people. That doesn't mean Feminism is 100% right, because that plus egalitarianism, secularism, and Neoliberalism is contributing to declining birthrates in Japan, South Korea, Canada, USA, some European countries, Russia and China, and the UK. Most westernized countries have this birthrate issue and high divorce rates, and most westernized countries have to source from other populations with a theocratic religious background, countries that can reproduce itself. How can this be good for this western valued countries in the future if they don't integrate religion and theocratic principles, and just let individualism and liberalism morally bankrupt the country? In fact most humanism and secularism heavily borrows from religion and theocracy.

Isn't this the same with any group that has appealed and achieved rights? 

It seems you're advocating for a return to patriarchy and white supremacy. 

Also, China isn't Western. It may be secular but not in the liberal sense. Marxism is inherently secular. China implemented the one-child policy as population control and even during its growth since Deng hasn't been influenced by Western values. Most countries, whether Western or not, are experiencing falls in birth rates. 

Birth rates have fallen in Iran, which is hardly embracing of feminism and never has been since the Revolution. 

It clearly is a phenomenon that isn't limited to Western countries or those that have contemporary Western liberal values. You also mention neoliberalism. Capitalism today is way more regulatory than it was 50 or a 100 years ago. Many of the staples of contemporary economies such as healthcare, education,, state benefits, etc. didn't exist 100 years ago, yet many countries were still capitalist.  You're confliating your own ideology with actual historical and current realities. 

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

1 hour ago, bebotalk said:

Isn't this the same with any group that has appealed and achieved rights? 

It seems you're advocating for a return to patriarchy and white supremacy. 

Also, China isn't Western. It may be secular but not in the liberal sense. Marxism is inherently secular. China implemented the one-child policy as population control and even during its growth since Deng hasn't been influenced by Western values. Most countries, whether Western or not, are experiencing falls in birth rates. 

Birth rates have fallen in Iran, which is hardly embracing of feminism and never has been since the Revolution. 

It clearly is a phenomenon that isn't limited to Western countries or those that have contemporary Western liberal values. You also mention neoliberalism. Capitalism today is way more regulatory than it was 50 or a 100 years ago. Many of the staples of contemporary economies such as healthcare, education,, state benefits, etc. didn't exist 100 years ago, yet many countries were still capitalist.  You're confliating your own ideology with actual historical and current realities. 

   The same with any group, any native tribe, any colony, any imperialist empire, any civilization, any religious organization, any country/nation, any allied axis, that has appealed and achieved rights, throughout history? Majority of history has mostly been autocratic, with a few like the Roman empire having both democratic/autocratic functions.

   No, I'm positing a limited democracy, with far more senators and congressmen, with higher thresholds into gaining offices and seats, like passing a political test to actually know if you are both knowledgeable and experienced for the senator and congressmen roles, with some form of patriarchy compatible with the modern world.

   Sure, China isn't western it's eastern, yet copies some parts of the west if you look at when Great Britain and the USA got involved with China in the past, and has a communism/autocratic rulership government heavily secular after the Mau party overthrew their monarchy imperialists. Yes, Marxism is inherently secular, yet China learned of it and received the proliferating ideology of Marxism and Leninism from Russia, which inspired Mau to take action. I agree that most countries are experiencing birthrate declines, westernized countries and countries with close or distant ties to the USA, even eastern ones. I did say it's a combinatory problem involving capitalism and neoliberalism, and when both ideologies overwork the workers so much they don't have enough time and energy and attention to date, have relations and marry. It's a combinatory issue that also combines with this growing feminism and egalitarianism. In truth, not every man or woman is equal.

   I don't know enough about Iran to have a take on why their population is decreasing and birthrates are declining.

   About capitalism and neoliberalism, they're both ideologies. Now just because both are ideologies doesn't mean I'm saying they both don't work, you can have ideologies that work very well, like scientism dogma, or other ideologies that are cult like and don't work. I'm saying when capitalism and neoliberalism infects the higher ups to overwork their workers and create this toxic work culture it combines with other issues that decline birthrates. Take for example this video, last 20 minutes is the example, but I suggest watching the whole thing for context:

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Danioover9000

[bebotalk]

Working hours restrictions are modern. They didn't exist in the 19th century, when capitalism was arguably in its purest form. 

[Twentyfirst]

6 hours ago, bebotalk said:

Wht's wrong with that? I don't believe anybody should be a second class citizen. 

You don't get what I am saying. I am saying there is no need for feminism anymore because women are not second class citizens anymore. So what the hell is feminism for then?

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

1 hour ago, bebotalk said:

Working hours restrictions are modern. They didn't exist in the 19th century, when capitalism was arguably in its purest form. 

   So because working hour restrictions are modern, justifies the 9-9-6 work life in Japan, China, South Korea and other Asian countries?(work from 9:00am to 9:00pm, for 6 days a week Monday to Saturday, sometimes Sunday.)

   Also, the indoctrination and grooming of capitalism and neoliberalism ideology, say in Japanese schools, forcing students to get cram schools, mandatory clubs, until they arrive home at 10:00pm, only 30 minutes to 1 hour left for homework, no free time to develop hobbies and interests, and repeat the next day? All to prepare them to serve their corporate masters and capitalist gods?

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Twentyfirst]

57 minutes ago, Squeekytoy said:

Smash patriarchy  🤷‍♂️ 

Idk what that is. But what I do know is you have clean drinking water, toilets, cars, planes, and a smartphone. Don't forget it 

[bebotalk]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@bebotalk

   So because working hour restrictions are modern, justifies the 9-9-6 work life in Japan, China, South Korea and other Asian countries?(work from 9:00am to 9:00pm, for 6 days a week Monday to Saturday, sometimes Sunday.)

   Also, the indoctrination and grooming of capitalism and neoliberalism ideology, say in Japanese schools, forcing students to get cram schools, mandatory clubs, until they arrive home at 10:00pm, only 30 minutes to 1 hour left for homework, no free time to develop hobbies and interests, and repeat the next day? All to prepare them to serve their corporate masters and capitalist gods?

 

Japan has its own cultural norms. 
Capitalism doesn't operate the same in every country. Moreover, Japan whiist being capitalist isn't Western culturally. Well not in the same sense that the USA, Canada, UK, or Germany are. There are still some vestiges of the old Meiji and Edo period ways, especially in terms of working attitudes and practices. Japan's working culture is more due to these long-held traditions and not what modern neoliberalism has taught them. The same attitudes relate to the suicide forest and other toxic parts of Japanese culture. 

It's modern neoliberalism that's taught Western countries to value work/life balance more, including flexible working. Many countries in recent years have mandatory maximum working weeks.