Israel/Palestine brief discussion with Destiny.

[Danioover9000]

   What do you guys think or feel about this conversation?

   To me, it's a solid exchange, but it's simplistic taking into account developmental factors like Spiral Dynamics stages of development(By Clare Graves and Don Beck), cognitive and moral development, personality typing/traits(By Myers Briggs personality modal and Big Five personality traits modal), 9 stages of ego development(by Jane Loevinger), Architypes and shadow work(By Carl Jung), Integral Theory and other lines of development in life and social domains(By Ken Wilbur), ideological beliefs groomed, gaslighted and indoctrinated by culture, family structure, and information ecology like alternative/mainstream news, newspapers, radio, video, TV programs, advertising, social media, community, schooling and peer pressure from peers and teachers to conform to ideology, and many more information intake points that manufactures consent(By Noam Chomsky) which influences your worldview, self biases and preferences.

   What are your thoughts?

[Juan]

Locked

[Danioover9000]

@Juan

22 hours ago, Juan said:

Locked

   If every time I make a post and thread, and all you're thinking is 'locked', then you are low quality consciousness. One example of using and consuming too much Tik Tok and social media, when it makes you think it's fine to harass and insult and stalk another User that has nothing to do with you.

[Juan]

@Danioover9000 The reason I said locked is because I consider this a low quality post. What do you want us to do with it? Critize what we think about what Destiny’s said? So you can debate us? (Looking at past similar threads of yours). You’ve been also critical of him so I find it weird you keep sharing about him, like the way you talk about Lex, so maybe idk you secretly like Destiny too. 

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

One example of using and consuming too much Tik Tok and social media, when it makes you think it's fine to harass and insult and stalk another User that has nothing to do with you.

  You have zero clue of what social media I use or if I even use them. Talking about consuming too much I’ve been in the forum since 2017 and I have less than a 1,000 posts while you been here since 2019 and you have almost 10,000 posts, so you have WAY more posts than posting everyday since you started for 5 years (cuz 5 x 365 days = 1,825). I’m not saying you’re addicted to the forum but rather you spend more time and post more than me on here, something to contemplate.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Juan

[Raze]

I thought you said Destiny is a cult leader or something, why are you still watching and posting him?

He already said that he thinks the only solution is a ethnic cleansing and he wants Jews to win. He challenged Norman Finkelsteinnto a debate but when Norman refused to agree to only debate the aspect of the topic he had time to read on Wikipedia he just didn’t show up. Frankly he should not be taken seriously on this issue and it’s tiring that when an issue pops up he makes inflammatory statements then when people criticize him he starts skimming Wikipedia to validate his preconceived assumptions and “debates” someone who knows as little as him then backtracks and nuances what he says and declares victory. He’s not a serious person and is toxic to discourse.

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

1 hour ago, Raze said:

I thought you said Destiny is a cult leader or something, why are you still watching and posting him?

He already said that he thinks the only solution is a ethnic cleansing and he wants Jews to win. He challenged Norman Finkelsteinnto a debate but when Norman refused to agree to only debate the aspect of the topic he had time to read on Wikipedia he just didn’t show up. Frankly he should not be taken seriously on this issue and it’s tiring that when an issue pops up he makes inflammatory statements then when people criticize him he starts skimming Wikipedia to validate his preconceived assumptions and “debates” someone who knows as little as him then backtracks and nuances what he says and declares victory. He’s not a serious person and is toxic to discourse.

   Not a cult leader, but having a cult personality, and being a sociopathic liar, as I covered him on my body language thread. Yes, while I am now more leaning against him and am biased against him, I don't 100% biased against him. He is a skilled debater himself and can think in neat categories, and has good rhetorical persuasive skills that his fallacies feel natural and reactive against his arguers, as if those fallacies and appeals to logos, ethos and pathos is justified against an oppositional ideology. Again based on many develo0pmental factors like Stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing/traits, 9 stages of ego development, Integral Theory other lines of development in life and societal domains, and other ideological beliefs indoctrinated by society, culture, family upbringing, information intake like newspapers, news from mainstream and alternative, radio, video, tv programs, social media and many more that manufactures consent in the population, I consider Destiny to be many times a polarizing figure.

   Main gripe with Destiny is that he's becoming more popular and has a growing range to spread his ideology to others unaware of his manipulation tactics and dynamics. He's clearly wrong and biased at times, like his take on Mearsheimer which is clearly poisoning the well and trying to slander his credibility to his own fanbase. I don't like that. It's great Destiny has these debate skills and thinks the way he does in many categories and tries to argue from the opposition's side too like arguing for abortion rights or arguing for capitalism or arguing certain topics and skillful in reframing in debates, but he's too poisoned by his own ideology of Neoliberalism and capitalism to be intellectually honest and have integrity when it counts, and people as time goes on will Para socialize onto him, and be swept into his cult like dynamics of his online community. Also, him and other hundreds of online personalities and social media influencers normalizing the internet and social media when it's harmful to a developing mind is another issue I have with him, just sweeping under the rug how social media brain rots a viewer and consumer and increase ADD/ADHD like symptoms, which Destiny also has by his own admission, which should make him advocate more against social media right? Well, due to the format of the platforms that maximizes clicks and views, how the Algorithms and A.I curate content and hook user's attentions and maintains them(like Tik Tok), and this shorts and vines they produces is increasing ADD/ADHD, narcissism, sociopathy and psychopathy in users, further retarding also their social intelligence as face to face communications and interfacing with the 3d world is replaced with more interactions with a screen in front of you.

   I don't post about Destiny all the time, but occassionally like this video that popped in my YouTube feed. I've mostly put Destiny on ignore and unsubscribed. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Juan

1 hour ago, Juan said:

@Danioover9000 The reason I said locked is because I consider this a low quality post. What do you want us to do with it? Critize what we think about what Destiny’s said? So you can debate us? (Looking at past similar threads of yours). You’ve been also critical of him so I find it weird you keep sharing about him, like the way you talk about Lex, so maybe idk you secretly like Destiny too. 

  You have zero clue of what social media I use or if I even use them. Talking about consuming too much I’ve been in the forum since 2017 and I have less than a 1,000 posts while you been here since 2019 and you have almost 10,000 posts, so you have WAY more posts than posting everyday since you started for 5 years (cuz 5 x 365 days = 1,825). I’m not saying you’re addicted to the forum but rather you spend more time and post more than me on here, something to contemplate.

   I want a discussion about Destiny and this AVI guy, and users' thoughts and comments of how they talked about Israel/Palestine conflict in this way. Not just criticize, but review and share what you think they should have communicated.  

   You did say in the past you use Tik Tok for those very short animations and remixes? So that immediately biases you for Tik Tok and social media usage even when there's a growing net negative that social media has for the younger generation and brain development. There's a difference between blindly consuming highly addictive social media cites like Tik Tok versus writing posts here in this forum for my use and for my contemplations of reality. The overall volume is bigger for me, but more important the quality of those posts versus yours is higher for me, and lower for you as you keep on attacking and trolling against me even when I put you on ignore. Your behavior is more immature than my own behavior here in this forum. I have enough interactions and exchanges with you to consider you wholly low quality. Again, participate in this thread or don't. Give and thoughtful post, or don't and leave. Posting this thread would be locked is also low quality.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Juan]

@Danioover9000 I’m not the only one pointing the stuff I’ve been saying bro, even mods has said it and Leo, hell even this guy @Raze pointed out! Again you don’t know what content I consume or if I consume it at all. There is a difference between making content for social media overall and also consume it, so you’re just assuming what I do. 

3 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

Posting this thread would be locked is also low quality.

  Not if what I said is true, if there isn’t any benefits about talking such subject, then we move on and locked it, I’m open to be wrong too. 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Juan

[Danioover9000]

@Juan

44 minutes ago, Juan said:

@Danioover9000 I’m not the only one pointing the stuff I’ve been saying bro, even mods has said it and Leo, hell even this guy @Raze pointed out! Again you don’t know what content I consume or if I consume it at all. There is a difference between making content for social media overall and also consume it, so you’re just assuming what I do. 

  Not if what I said is true, if there isn’t any benefits about talking such subject, then we move on and locked it, I’m open to be wrong too. 

   I find that the level of discourse that these online creators and streamers have is getting lower and lower, as we keep empowering big tech companies to make more addictive online content like with Tik Tok, increasing short attention span, narcissism, self entitlement, and sociopathic/psychopathic traits. The content creators take this neoliberalism/capitalism ideology on blind faith, and participate in this Game A playing field were we over value stage orange materialism, and transactional relationship via digital value of click rate and views meaning more monetization. The more time passes the more fake it feels.

   For example, in Destiny's case, when he's talking about the Israel/Palestinian conflict he doesn't mind being pro Israel as public enemy number 1 is HAMAS and Destiny get's to reframe and deflect, from any valid solid critic and argument in good faith, to bad faith uncharitable takes of Destiny's arguments as just the other side supporting HAMAS, get's to pivot to any refutation of Destiny's argument as terrorist sympathizers. Why? Because in the American culture, and western cultures in general they are a terrorist group. Problem solved, just kill the bad guys in Palestine and Palestine gets saved. No, it's a deeply systemic issue that goes as far as 80 years ago and much more, which started with the Zionists and alt right nationalists within Israel's upper class rule seeking an ethnostate. Even though the region in general had Spiral Dynamics stages purple/red dominant areas with some staunch stage blue countries like Iran and Egypt nearby, with their religious nationalism, Israel's slightly higher development, and the historical conflict between Judaism and Islam over a holy land territory land locks and conflict locks Israel with it's neighboring tribes and societies. Just the same when Destiny poisons the well with John Mearsheimer's argument for why the Ukraine and Russia conflict is the west's fault, instead of looking at his argumentation and deconstructing it, he just slanders and name calls John Mearsheimer via calling one of his sources a Nazi sympathizer, gets the mind slaying tactic, problem solved. This is clearly a deep systemic issue in the online community structures, how the internet is today, and big tech companies monopolizing on people's attention spans whilst reducing the grey matter in their brains with this corrosive social media platforms.

   No, it's not problem solved when your entire career relies on riling up the crowd and indoctrinating into them negative states of being and enforcing this para socialization. Doing so just enforces this echo chamber he has in his community of pursuing bad faith uncharitable and gotcha moments arguments rather than trying to solidly argue or even have a good discourse. 

[Danioover9000]

   It's just such a tricky and nuanced situation. Even if I ignore and blacklist Destiny and people like him, that doesn't stop them from sickening the minds of their followers and fanbase. I tend to think the following scenarios of these consequences:

1. Normalizing dog piling and doxxing, that someone with a good argument or good refutation against Destiny, Destiny doxxes them and some of his fanbase dog piles and cyber bullies that person, even harassing them and sending letters to their work place, asking them to let off this person, therefore reputation damage and endangering their career path or work life. Even if I ignore a person, their followers and them still keep doing these low consciousness takes and continue spreading their ideology. The potential financial wealth from some money spent in donations, to attention and time lost is even more dangerous.

2. Relationships and family get negatively impacted, that some of those followers are spending too much time giving their attention and donations to people with an enclosed ideological echo chamber, and feed into this para socialization more and less time spent with real people relationships in the real world and more time in the digital. Not to mention again the negative personality and psychological effects these carry over into the real world.

   Even in an ideal situation, I ignore these streamers and online personalities and continue my LP avoiding such people perfectly, I will deal with such streamers and their followers in the real world, I have to deal with some people who have normalized immature mindsets from such online communities, normalized toxic behaviors and views of the world. I still have to interact with some people with massive short attention span, self entitlement, and inability to focus or be mature minded when talking or listening.

[bebotalk]

I like Destiny. Compared to most political streamers, he seems the most reasonable. Vaush speaks well but his ideology imho is too cringy (,i.e. market socialism and woke politics). Hasan is a dishonest showman with a hypocritical lifestyle (a wealthy Marxist) and advocates anti-white racism by saying the term cracker is fine to say as it's punching up. I'm biased towards Destiny over other streamers since I share his general ideology of social democracy. 

I don't see much wrong with his Israel/Palestine take. He has condemned both sides for being harsh at times, though acknowledges both sides' rights to the space. And that neither side will go away and will remain as they are, and in the space they occupy.

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk

2 hours ago, bebotalk said:

I like Destiny. Compared to most political streamers, he seems the most reasonable. Vaush speaks well but his ideology imho is too cringy (,i.e. market socialism and woke politics). Hasan is a dishonest showman with a hypocritical lifestyle (a wealthy Marxist) and advocates anti-white racism by saying the term cracker is fine to say as it's punching up. I'm biased towards Destiny over other streamers since I share his general ideology of social democracy. 

I don't see much wrong with his Israel/Palestine take. He has condemned both sides for being harsh at times, though acknowledges both sides' rights to the space. And that neither side will go away and will remain as they are, and in the space they occupy.

 

 

   Fair enough. I did a body language analysis thread about Destiny and Mr. Girl's drama here:

   And found him both defensive and lying about the drama, so I don't trust him. The other guy ain't innocent either, and a narcissist, but after doing a body language analysis in his video on his site, that's genuine stress and defensiveness with lower probability of lying. Destiny's higher on lying, as he's a sociopath. I've outgrown Destiny as well so even though yes Destiny has some solid and reasonable political takes, it's without the gotcha moments and drama farming, hate when he jokes too.

[Danioover9000]

@bebotalk  Speaking about Destiny, there's also Dark Viper who is a decent speed runner gamer, who made some good videos on the reaction community being toxic, and some others. He even had a pseudo debate with destiny 4-3 years ago on ethics. Found a few videos that are interesting and reveals more of Destiny's character:

and especially:

   Because this contradicts the man, the myth, the legendary Destiny, said to DEBATE ANYONE ON ANY TOPIC! That's his marketing and manifesto, to debate anyone with any topic, and talk to everyone willingly...YET DOESN'T DEBATE DARK VIPER ON REACT CONTENT AND COMMUNITY! What are you hiding???GTFO of your room and debate BOI!!