Far-Right Wins Dutch General Election

[ItsNick]

Geert Wilder's his far-right party PVV has won the Dutch national elections by far:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/22/netherlands-dutch-general-election-vote-result-exit-poll-prime-minister-government-live-latest-result

I had not expected this to happen here. In my entire life living in the Netherlands far-right has never won this big.

[Basman]

Right wing politics have been rising in popularity in Europe in general. I believe immigration is a major reason for why.

[BlueOak]

Just sad that corporations have screwed things up so much, and left people with so little, that the economy matters less, than wrecking the economy by removing economic migration to feel like you are 'winning', to then go on and blame the government for not magically filling these new jobs immediately as soon as they appear, in a dynamic marketplace. Training takes time as problems arise, and you can't replace manual jobs with an aging local workforce either. Aka Brexit in Britain. This was achievable because socialism was successfully demonized as the enemy giving corporations no pushback, and all the clowns on TV don't realise (or want to ignore) you can't make a retired person go pick potatoes in a field on mass. So there goes one of many industries the country can no longer staff or run, along with many of the others by leaving the common market to increase bureacratic costs, which is what a lot of these further right governments want.

It's not just immigration, that's the go-to rightwing blame feel good fest, like gay people, the poor, the homeless, other religions, etc. When you go far enough right, the enemy has to be external as well. There has to be a war to justify the external 'threat' that galvanizes an extreme-right government, fear essentially requiring a strong man protector to keep people safe. That's where we are headed on mass, smaller countries can also be used as proxy's for economic war, political influence peddling by Russia for example, or just outright conflict when they are located in the right place.

I am just sorry I resisted Teal Swan telling me WW3 was coming ten years ago. What hyperbole, cooler heads, nobodies that psychotic I said, well we are certainly stacking the deck with people who will shoot first, (and are doing) then not worry about the fallout later. In fact, they'll now not only target civilian populations as a war strategy (Russia) but censor and fire you for talking about it (Israel).

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by BlueOak

[Epikur]

9 hours ago, ItsNick said:

Geert Wilder's his far-right party PVV has won the Dutch national elections by far:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/22/netherlands-dutch-general-election-vote-result-exit-poll-prime-minister-government-live-latest-result

I had not expected this to happen here. In my entire life living in the Netherlands far-right has never won this big.

It was a matter of time. People got lied and gaslighted constanly. Only people living in dreamland could not see that it was coming. That is true for Western Europe


 

[Yimpa]

And, so, the pendulum swings.

[PurpleTree]

So what‘s he planning to change?

[Vrubel]

13 hours ago, ItsNick said:

Geert Wilder's his far-right party PVV has won the Dutch national elections by far:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/nov/22/netherlands-dutch-general-election-vote-result-exit-poll-prime-minister-government-live-latest-result

I had not expected this to happen here. In my entire life living in the Netherlands far-right has never won this big.

He moderated a lot though, and he will be forced to park some of his most extreme ideas if he wants to rule in a coalition. I don't see him as an authoritarian crazy person, he has the right to his opinion about Islam and stopping Islamic immigration is a legitimate standpoint. However, he must assure the  Islamic citizens of the country that he won't harm their basic rights. I think he is able to do that.  

Personally, I voted for Omzigt because I think integrity should be rewarded even though I don't trust him entirely, he seems kinda autistic to me haha.  

[PurpleTree]

I mean he seems like a freak

but i also blame the left for not really addressing the issues with immigration in places like sweden, belgium, france, netherlands etc

[Vrubel]

@PurpleTree Yes left wing gets easily out of touch with the people because they tend to be overly idealistic, politically correct and naive. Though on Social policies Wilders is left wing. He just has a hardline against Muslims which he must moderate if he wants to rule in a coalition.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Vrubel

[PurpleTree]

11 minutes ago, Vrubel said:

@PurpleTree Yes left wing gets easily out of touch with the people because they tend to be overly idealistic, politically correct and naive. Though on Social policies Wilders is left wing. He just has a hardline against Muslims which he must moderate if he wants to rule in a coalition.

I know in the netherlands there is for example the moroccan mafia and generally a lot of immigration

left is idealistic and not in touch with reality and right wing is „offering“ simple solutions for complex issues and doesn’t deliver either. 

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

I know in the netherlands there is for example the moroccan mafia and generally a lot of immigration

It's not the Moroccan mafia that is the issue but the general lack of integration and lack of adherence to Western values that rub many Dutch people the wrong way. 
Though Compared to Sweden and France I think the integration issue is not that bad here. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Vrubel

[Karmadhi]

The issue with the guy is not only his anti muslim views towards immigration but also from what I read he is anti EU expansion, including Ukraine.

Considering the influence of Russia, EU must expand as fast as possible to get all the countries which are not yet members, especially Western Balkans and his racist retoric is a big issue.

 

[PurpleTree]

18 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The issue with the guy is not only his anti muslim views towards immigration but also from what I read he is anti EU expansion, including Ukraine.

Considering the influence of Russia, EU must expand as fast as possible to get all the countries which are not yet members, especially Western Balkans and his racist retoric is a big issue.

 

Don‘t you think Ukraine is still too big, corrupt and poor for EU membership? Especially with freedom of movement

[Jowblob]

He has a lot of good points, and some bad points. I live in the Netherlands for 20 years, and i only see him as being competent enough to be a leader. The left wing in the Netherlands ruined this country, the middle is the way. And because he has to form a coalition in order to rule the country, he will move closer to the middle which is good.

[Karmadhi]

51 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

Don‘t you think Ukraine is still too big, corrupt and poor for EU membership? Especially with freedom of movement

Ukraine maybe. But smaller countries like Macedonia or Montengro are not that big  and therefore not an issue.

Romania also has more population than all of them combined and EU had no issue to let them in 2007 when the country was poorer than any country in Europe in 2023.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

46 minutes ago, Jowblob said:

He has a lot of good points, and some bad points. I live in the Netherlands for 20 years, and i only see him as being competent enough to be a leader

Banning the Quran and equating it with Mein Kampf is an insult to free speech.

Why does he not ban the Bible too?

[Vrubel]

4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Banning the Quran and equating it with Mein Kampf is an insult to free speech.

Why does he not ban the Bible too?

That's definitely a point where he overshoots, it's unconstitutional to ban a religion. I would say Islam itself is not the problem but just the way many immigrants cling to it in extremely conservative ways and don't adopt Western values or integrate the Western worldview. This creates tension with the wider population.
Having said that it's important to be nuanced on this issue and also to point out that integration is successful in many cases and overall immigrants do contribute to the economy. Nobody is going to send them back. Wilders can't harm their basic rights but he will be tough on any anti-western and Islamic sentiment in society but even here his power is limited by the constitution and presumably his coalition partners. 

[meta_male]

9 hours ago, Epikur said:

It was a matter of time. People got lied and gaslighted constanly. Only people living in dreamland could not see that it was coming.

Same here https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/elections-2023--swiss-parliament-looks-set-to-lean-right/48902762

[Schizophonia]

I visited a large part of southern Sweden and was surprised by the number of non-white people, the same for Germany.

2 hours ago, Vrubel said:

It's not the Moroccan mafia that is the issue but the general lack of integration and lack of adherence to Western values that rub many Dutch people the wrong way. 
Though Compared to Sweden and France I think the integration issue is not that bad here. 

 

I visited a large part of southern Sweden and was surprised by the number of non-white people, the same for Germany.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Schizophonia

[Schizophonia]

19 hours ago, Basman said:

Right wing politics have been rising in popularity in Europe in general. I believe immigration is a major reason for why.

This is THE reason, I have almost never seen anyone vote to the right out of conservatism, knowing that the French right is more conservative than that of northern European countries.

People can no longer tolerate increasing insecurity and ethnic replacement.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Schizophonia