Has Biden ruined America's reputation by his illegal support of Israel?

[Lila9]

If you look at the big picture, it's a war between Western and non Western values.

Democracy vs Dictatorship mentality.

North Korea, Iran and Qatar financing Hamas. Syria, China, Russia also support Hamas and Palestine. Why? Because they share the same values and they all have a common enemy which is US, Europe, the West and Western values.

It's a war between Western values such as liberalism, democracy, human rights and between conservatism, dictatorship, violence and human rights violation.

Why would America support Palestine and Hamas if it's supported by countries who hate America and want to eliminate it? 

Kim Jong Un said himself openly that North Korea would like to eliminate US.

He is very passionate about it. I don't know if he is really capable of it alone that's another question.

Also, Israel is the only America's ally in the middle east, which is beneficial strategically to US because Israel serves as proxy if required. 

This is why no US president with minimal brain will ever cease to support Israel. Even Trump supported Israel.

Countries with certain values naturally incline to support countries who share the same values. 

The issue with Western liberals is that they don't see the big picture and easily fall to stupid compassion and manipulation by Hamas who knows how to market themselves and use the western nativity to gain support in order to promote their radical Islamic, anti-american, anti western, antisemitic, homophobic and myogenic ideology. 

They literally believe to everything Hamas says because they assume that Hamas is just like themselves.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Lila9

[BlueOak]

When I say 'not much changed' for America it was a bit dismissive. I think it brought together the Middle East against American interests more, into alignment with BRICS and Iran more. That should be recognized, but as America will be slowly becoming more isolationist, unless something major changes, ultimately the only people that will be affected is Israel. BRICS will by its nature take over the region into its sphere of interest again, like Russia used to. I don't think it'll ever stop someone from selling oil to their customers, just perhaps tipping the balance in economic wars more often. Like Saudia Arabia did in Russia vs Ukraine.

[BlueOak]

15 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If you look at the big picture, it's a war between Western and non Western values.

Democracy vs Dictatorship mentality.

North Korea, Iran and Qatar financing Hamas. Syria, China, Russia also support Hamas and Palestine. Why? Because they share the same values and they all have a common enemy which is US, Europe, the West and Western values.

It's a war between Western values such as liberalism, democracy, human rights and between conservatism, dictatorship, violence and human rights violation.

Why would America support Palestine and Hamas if it's supported by countries who hate America and want to eliminate it? 

Kim Jong Un said himself openly that North Korea would like to eliminate US.

He is very passionate about it. I don't know if he is really capable of it alone that's another question.

Also, Israel is the only America's ally in the middle east, which is beneficial strategically to US because Israel serves as proxy if required. 

This is why no US president with minimal brain will ever cease to support Israel. Even Trump supported Israel.

Countries with certain values naturally incline to support countries who share the same values. 

The issue with Western liberals is that they don't see the big picture and easily fall to stupid compassion and manipulation by Hamas who knows how to market themselves and use the western nativity to gain support in order to promote their radical Islamic, anti-american, anti western, antisemitic, homophobic and myogenic ideology. 

They literally believe to everything Hamas says because they assume that Hamas is just like themselves.

 

 

 

 

Traditional Western values are on the way out everywhere but Europe, and even there it isn't guaranteed anymore it'll hold. I think Russia, and Ukraine's defense of its government, managed to push those values back to the front of people's minds, but whether that will stick I have no idea.

Trump has been praising dictators every other week, if the overton window shifts anymore right (which it has been gradually for 20 years), forget that concept entirely outside of Europe.

Edited November 22, 2023 by BlueOak

[Karmadhi]

On 22/11/2023 at 8:05 PM, Lila9 said:

If you look at the big picture, it's a war between Western and non Western values.

Democracy vs Dictatorship mentality

It is actually about non whites and Muslims being treated as inferior and less human and the world is tired of it.

Which is why liberals are protesting about Palestine so much.

They are tired of white priviledge and only whites lives mattering. They seek Muslim lives to have same value and are tired of Western Governmental hypocrisy.

The fundamental cause of this revolt is non whites are tired of being seen as less worthy and Liberals which are the only people conscious enough to understand and see this, are voicing their hearts.

When Russia does war crimes against Ukranians, all governments condemn it.

When Israel does the same, "its complicated".

This shows you everything.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Karmadhi

[jaylimix]

On 11/23/2023 at 2:42 AM, Nivsch said:

But on the war which its goal is to eliminate hamas completely every one here is agree. Both left and right.

The controversy is only about the day AFTER hamas is gone, and about that the far-right wants to re-settle in Gaza.

The vast majority in Israel doesn't want at all to re-settle there and want only to give the control on Gaza to either the palestinian authority or an international force, probably with IDF help and right to enter into Key points in Gaza in any time to prevent terror cells from growing.

How feasible would it be if all Gazans were to be transported to live in the Westbank ?

[lina]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:35 AM, Karmadhi said:

"USA has lost all credibility"

It's not just the US, and not just on the Israeli war. Western countries have a consistent pattern in voting against UN resolutions that calls for their own promoted values; like that of human rights and cultural equality. 

I understand other non-western countries are not any better, but it's worth acknowledging western governments' hypocrisy.  

A very important video worth watching: 

 

[zazen]

@lina That's what's frustrating, the hypocrisy of the Western elite. It causes cognitive dissonance among Westerners and distrust from non Western allies. Not to say hypocrisy doesn't exist in other parts of the world, but in the West it's magnified at a state level making it visible for those who can see through the propoganda.

The West are supporting Ukraine that's full of neo-Nazis who hate Jews and then go on to support Israel in the name of supporting the Jewish people. Western imperialists don't actually stand for what they claim to stand for, and their framing of where they stand in these conflicts is a cloaked lie. The empire just supports who it supports because that's where its interests happen to be at the time.

Peak hypocrisy is inflicting violence and destruction throughout the world in order to pursue planetary hegemony while lying about your reasons for doing so. The global south knew this from past experience (they paied the blood price for the lesson), but its only become more and more clearer today since the war on terror from 2001 and the advent of social media which debunks main stream narratives. The global south have developed some economic strength are more in a position to speak against and oppose the West now collectively with China in their corner.

Concepts like democracy and human rights are not values they wish to promote as much as they are political sticks used against adversarial nations - these nations are aggressively criticized for human rights violations and lack of democracy. Paying lip service to democracy and human rights is just one tactic in their playbook to create the façade of moral authority, all the while tactfully undermining governments that go against them.

Edited November 27, 2023 by zazen

[Nivsch]

On 22.11.2023 at 9:05 PM, Lila9 said:

If you look at the big picture, it's a war between Western and non Western values.

Democracy vs Dictatorship mentality.

North Korea, Iran and Qatar financing Hamas. Syria, China, Russia also support Hamas and Palestine. Why? Because they share the same values and they all have a common enemy which is US, Europe, the West and Western values.

It's a war between Western values such as liberalism, democracy, human rights and between conservatism, dictatorship, violence and human rights violation.

Why would America support Palestine and Hamas if it's supported by countries who hate America and want to eliminate it? 

Kim Jong Un said himself openly that North Korea would like to eliminate US.

He is very passionate about it. I don't know if he is really capable of it alone that's another question.

Also, Israel is the only America's ally in the middle east, which is beneficial strategically to US because Israel serves as proxy if required. 

This is why no US president with minimal brain will ever cease to support Israel. Even Trump supported Israel.

Countries with certain values naturally incline to support countries who share the same values. 

The issue with Western liberals is that they don't see the big picture and easily fall to stupid compassion and manipulation by Hamas who knows how to market themselves and use the western nativity to gain support in order to promote their radical Islamic, anti-american, anti western, antisemitic, homophobic and myogenic ideology. 

They literally believe to everything Hamas says because they assume that Hamas is just like themselves.

+1 ❤

The fake symmery and the myth of "just two sides of the same coin" (so romantic) must be stopped because it only gives a price and an advantage position to the less developed side, and as we have seen again only 2 days ago in Tulkarem, not in the very healthy zone of the spectrum.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Nivsch

[BlueOak]

12 hours ago, zazen said:

@lina That's what's frustrating, the hypocrisy of the Western elite. It causes cognitive dissonance among Westerners and distrust from non Western allies. Not to say hypocrisy doesn't exist in other parts of the world, but in the West it's magnified at a state level making it visible for those who can see through the propoganda.

The West are supporting Ukraine that's full of neo-Nazis who hate Jews and then go on to support Israel in the name of supporting the Jewish people. Western imperialists don't actually stand for what they claim to stand for, and their framing of where they stand in these conflicts is a cloaked lie. The empire just supports who it supports because that's where its interests happen to be at the time.

Peak hypocrisy is inflicting violence and destruction throughout the world in order to pursue planetary hegemony while lying about your reasons for doing so. The global south knew this from past experience (they paied the blood price for the lesson), but its only become more and more clearer today since the war on terror from 2001 and the advent of social media which debunks main stream narratives. The global south have developed some economic strength are more in a position to speak against and oppose the West now collectively with China in their corner.

Concepts like democracy and human rights are not values they wish to promote as much as they are political sticks used against adversarial nations - these nations are aggressively criticized for human rights violations and lack of democracy. Paying lip service to democracy and human rights is just one tactic in their playbook to create the façade of moral authority, all the while tactfully undermining governments that go against them.

'Full of neo nazi's.'

You mean the few hundred that were in a militia unit, that was reformed before the war into a regular army unit? The leader of which left and got 2% of the vote in the elections? Those few hundred?  I guess that'll be every country then, because EVERY COUNTRY has a far right, and now more than ever. Every country has shifted right and continues to do so unabated.

40 Million people. The far right being 2% was actually a very healthy amount at that time. You can be damn sure invading a country will create a lot more far-right individuals, so good job there Russia, creating what you say you don't want. Oh what's that, several far-right groups marching in your own country? I guess Russia will be invading itself next? 

The reason the world doesn't line up with what you are saying, is because its an ideological fantasy, the very thing you say you hate to see. One of the many bad faith pretexts, because the actual truth was a complicated set of calculations, internal/external pressures, and emotions to arrive at that particular choice. Not an absurd claim that a country of 40 million people, most of whom were minding their own business was overrun with extremists, and Russia just decided to play a moral wet nurse to 'save them' that day in another country.

Most countries try to expand their sphere of influence, because they are playing zero-sum games. The fact you think this is limited to western nations while BRICS is ascendent, is willfully choosing a side and saying their bad, were good. Its okay when they do it, because I like how they operate more. Look down the street, into the nearest city, and tell me all the people there are good people, whatever that means. Because that's your country, not a construct in your head.

BTW in war, the west prosecutes its low-ranking war criminals, most of the time. Because the public demanded they do so. Forget the decision-makers they've always been above the law. Even for the rank and file, I don't think they will care as much going forward, but then Russia promotes its war criminals, and pardons its actual criminals to fight so *shrug*. I guess it's a normalization and what people want or will tolerate these days.

Edited November 28, 2023 by BlueOak

[BlueOak]

One day we'll arrive at the place, where universally people on mass see countries as a collection of people in them. With a framework of laws and institutions over the top. Then one day we'll acknowledge that the concept of a country being bad or good is absurd. All you need do is look at your own city and see the many different people in it to understand this. The many different institutions trying to keep it running as best they can, and all the companies doing well or going broke etc.

Countries are flawed because people, institutions, businesses, and the values in them are flawed and imperfect. This is not an east or west thing, though there is always much to learn from the flaws and solutions others have or do. You are not better than them or worse, you just have different problems, different people etc.

Edited November 28, 2023 by BlueOak

[jaylimix]

5 hours ago, BlueOak said:

One day we'll arrive at the place, where universally people on mass see countries as a collection of people in them. 

En masse