Has Biden ruined America's reputation by his illegal support of Israel?

[Karmadhi]

I see a lot of hate towards Biden and USA recently because of the war in Gaza.

Even though the death toll is still lower than some other nasty wars enabled by other presidents, this is the first war that is documented so well via Instagram and other social medias. It is the first time people see the horrors of war daily on first hand accounts, without filters,  and this triggers their emotional brain a lot more than numbers or political debates do.

And therefore, I see comments like "USA has lost all credibility", "Biden is a genocide enabler" etc etc by many people including liberals.

Biden is at risk at loosing against Trump even before this but now the Arab American support greatly decreased to the point where he can loose key states.

I saw polls with tens of thousands of votes like: "Has West lost their moral high ground" etc with a 97% "Yes" response.

On top of that, his support for Israel is illegal since Israel according to the UN is committing war crimes. Supplying them and supporting them without question makes you complicit and therefore guilty.

You guys think this was an epic failure from a reputation standpoint on his last year of presidence? 

I am asking especially you Americans since I am not from there.

Personally I live in the EU, and I see that most EU citizens, especially young ones are mad at the EU and support Palestine. 

And EU is a lot less supportive of Israel than USA is.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Raze]

The USA and Israel is seen as the biggest threats to world peace when non Americans are polled. While it can be shocking to Americans considering how many countries they have bombed and revolutions and dictators they’ve funded it’s a natural conclusion.

[Nivsch]

What's illegal is the cult Gaza's children were in the last 15 years which in their minds have been poisoned maybe irreversibly to prefer jihad and death with no future waiting for them. Now their chance of healing has started.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Raze]

3 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

What is illegal is the cult Gaza's children were in the last 15 years which in their minds have been poisoned (irreversibly for part of them) to prefer jihad and death with no future waiting for them. Now their healing has started.

It’s “brainwashing” and not the fact that their entire lives Israel keeps them trapped inside, purposefully limits food allowed in to keep them on a diet, forces them to live off of contaminated water supplies to the point where they are slowly being poisoned, and has massacred thousands multiple times when Israel periodically “mows the lawn”.

The “healing” is starting by Israel murdering 10,000, almost half children, and failing to even take out Hamas? Maybe they aren’t the only brainwashed ones here.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Raze

[Nivsch]

2 hours ago, Raze said:

It’s “brainwashing” and not the fact that their entire lives Israel keeps them trapped inside, purposefully limits food allowed in to keep them on a diet, forces them to live off of contaminated water supplies to the point where they are slowly being poisoned, and has massacred thousands multiple times when Israel periodically “mows the lawn”.

The “healing” is starting by Israel murdering 10,000, almost half children, and failing to even take out Hamas? Maybe they aren’t the only brainwashed ones here.

You are wrong.

Israel left Gaza completely in 2005 including all the settlements, all of that gone, except a maritime closure to prevent hamas from weaponising much more seriously. All the other thing including money, food, medicine, electricity, water they got every single day during all these years.

The number is a mixture of hamas and civilians together I added an explanation in another thread. What about the thousands of Israeli children in the south traumatized from 15 years of rockets with 15 seconds(!) warning to go to the shelter together with oct 7th killed, kidnapped, orphans? Silence. Enough is fucking enough.

About the diet and water all of that I won't respond because this is such a joke. How long you will keep turning night into day and saying the sun rises in the west?

Biden doesnt believe your games anymore, neither the majority of the mature population in europe neither europe's leaders.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I see a lot of hate towards Biden and USA recently because of the war in Gaza.

Even though the death toll is still lower than some other nasty wars enabled by other presidents, this is the first war that is documented so well via Instagram and other social medias. It is the first time people see the horrors of war daily on first hand accounts, without filters,  and this triggers their emotional brain a lot more than numbers or political debates do.

And therefore, I see comments like "USA has lost all credibility", "Biden is a genocide enabler" etc etc by many people including liberals.

Biden is at risk at loosing against Trump even before this but now the Arab American support greatly decreased to the point where he can loose key states.

I saw polls with tens of thousands of votes like: "Has West lost their moral high ground" etc with a 97% "Yes" response.

On top of that, his support for Israel is illegal since Israel according to the UN is committing war crimes. Supplying them and supporting them without question makes you complicit and therefore guilty.

You guys think this was an epic failure from a reputation standpoint on his last year of presidence? 

I am asking especially you Americans since I am not from there.

Personally I live in the EU, and I see that most EU citizens, especially young ones are mad at the EU and support Palestine. 

And EU is a lot less supportive of Israel than USA is.

   I think it's getting thag bad that Donald Trump has a higher fhance of winning. Yes rhetorically Biden's support for Israel despite it's territorial exploitation to Gaza, the west bank and mistreatment of Palestinians in Israel, despite it's 2 party ethnostate lead by Zionists wishing to convert or oppress Palestinians, isn't so surprising. Consider that America did very similar to the Apache and Comanche, Native American tribes, because the early settlers needed more land, and buffalo fur and meat which the tribes also needed, and other events such as Neoliberalism and capitalism becomung predatory and proselytising to other countires, sometimes destabilizing them and making the immigration crisis worse. When two collective egos have a shared historical pattern of behaviour, they tend to want to support them.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Raze

3 hours ago, Raze said:

It’s “brainwashing” and not the fact that their entire lives Israel keeps them trapped inside, purposefully limits food allowed in to keep them on a diet, forces them to live off of contaminated water supplies to the point where they are slowly being poisoned, and has massacred thousands multiple times when Israel periodically “mows the lawn”.

The “healing” is starting by Israel murdering 10,000, almost half children, and failing to even take out Hamas? Maybe they aren’t the only brainwashed ones here.

   It's so obvious when you look at 80 years of Israel increasing it's territory and taking more land from Palestinians that ignoring the map and their increasing power is just lame. How anyone blindly supports those Zionists, and silences criticism of them is crazy, it's delusional.

[PurpleTree]

no i would say much of usa‘s reputation was ruined with the iraq war

[Sucuk Ekmek]

I am not American but might makes right. Who cares about lost reputation or morale high ground. Young EU citizens simply don't have might.

 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

I think it's getting thag bad that Donald Trump has a higher fhance of winning

Which is funny because I dont think Trump would have been nicer to Palestinians than Biden is. 

5 hours ago, PurpleTree said:

no i would say much of usa‘s reputation was ruined with the iraq war

That is true but this seems like the final nail in the coffin. Also back then you did not have social media so you did not see the direct effects on ordinary people, especially the kids. When people see kids dying daily via social media it has a psychological effect on them which is much bigger than a news report saying "500 civilians died today" or seeing destroyed buildings.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Karmadhi

15 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

Which is funny because I dont think Trump would have been nicer to Palestinians than Biden is. 

That is true but this seems like the final nail in the coffin. Also back then you did not have social media so you did not see the direct effects on ordinary people, especially the kids. When people see kids dying daily via social media it has a psychological effect on them which is much bigger than a news report saying "500 civilians died today" or seeing destroyed buildings.

 

   Didn't Trump in the past visited the Jerusalem wall? I also think it's likely he'll be able to manipulate and make himself more viable if he took a more proactive stance on the whole Israel Palestine conflict. If Trump choses to be for Israel, he'd use rhetoric to involve more American Troops in that region and flex more of the American might on 'helping Israel' but really to extend more American influence in that region, creating opportunity to be the one in history to try and nation build Palestine and get the credit for it. On the other hand, if he's against Israel and wants to show more support for Palestinians, he'd make up some rhetoric about how inefficient Israel's military is, and that it needs more assistance, which gives him plausible deniability in sending troops there to deal with HAMAs, but also to exert more power against Israel and to increase control in that region. After all, Biden and America showed some interest in that region, so Trump could capitalize on looking good by being the one to spearhead into that region.

   Of course all that is speculative, and will depend on how he gains more votes and wins more confidence and favors from the American people come political time and election season.

[Raze]

9 hours ago, Nivsch said:

You are wrong.

Israel left Gaza completely in 2005 including all the settlements, all of that gone, except a maritime closure to prevent hamas from weaponising much more seriously. All the other thing including money, food, medicine, electricity, water they got every single day during all these years.

The number is a mixture of hamas and civilians together I added an explanation in another thread. What about the thousands of Israeli children in the south traumatized from 15 years of rockets with 15 seconds(!) warning to go to the shelter together with oct 7th killed, kidnapped, orphans? Silence. Enough is fucking enough.

About the diet and water all of that I won't respond because this is such a joke. How long you will keep turning night into day and saying the sun rises in the west?

Biden doesnt believe your games anymore, neither the majority of the mature population in europe neither europe's leaders.

Every relevant humans rights organization concluded Israel still occupied Gaza in 2005. They still locked them inside, still controlled the perimeter.

The things I said about food and water are officially confirmed.

https://imeu.org/article/putting-palestinians-on-a-diet-israels-siege-blockade-of-gaza

”what about Israel kids” yes, Israel shouldn’t have put them in danger by torturing Gazans for decades.

Biden and the “mature population” that supported Israel have given Israel whatever it wanted for decades, the result was Oct 7 and Israel on the brink of civil and three front wars. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Raze

[Karmadhi]

10 hours ago, Nivsch said:

What's illegal is the cult Gaza's children were in the last 15 years which in their minds have been poisoned maybe irreversibly to prefer jihad and death with no future waiting for them. Now their chance of healing has started

According to International Law agencies, Israel has broken it countless times. USA supports Israel, by default they support a criminal. A criminal is someone that breaks the law. Someone that supports a criminal, that support is called "criminal support".

Now, if you want to say Israel has not broken Interntional Laws and everyone is wrong, do not expect people to believe you.

 

[zazen]

The US fled Afghanistan embarrassingly and have lost Ukraine to Russia - both under Bidens term. He also is probably sick of the comments of him being senile and weak from the public and so its not only his ego that wants to assert some dominance but the empire itself. 

''To freeze Ukraine in Europe, the US Hegemon will need an Israeli win in Gaza - perhaps at any and all costs - to maintain even a vestige of its former glory. 

But can Israel achieve victory any more than Ukraine can? Tel Aviv may have already lost the war on 7 October as it can never regain its facade of invincibility. And if this transforms into a regional war that Israel loses, the US will lose its Arab vassals overnight, who today have a Chinese and Russian option waiting in the wings. 

The Roar of the Street is getting louder - demanding that the Biden administration, now seen as complicit with Tel Aviv, halt the Israeli genocide that may lead to a World War. But Washington will not comply. Wars in Europe and West Asia may be its last chance (it will lose) to subvert the emergence of a prosperous, connected, peaceful Eurasia Century.''

[Karmadhi]

@zazen Would you think it is better for Ukraine to give up the annexed territories by Russia and end the war for good or keep fighting and risk loosing even more territory and have more of its people dead. I feel like the war there is just costing Ukraine more and more. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

@Raze Gaza is an independent state that gets humanitarian aid every day from Egypt and Israel they can't provide for themselves because they lack air and marin ways.

I understand you think we needed to give them also these things, but, the problem is that there is a terror organization controls there, and it already proved to use every money it gets for terror goals. What do you think hamas will do if we give him also marin and air capabilities?

So sorry but you are just wrong here. I recommend you to see Jordan Peterson video I putted a link to in my signature.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 The settlements in the west bank are problematic and I also wish they were stop from keep expanding. I agree with you on that point.

Along with that, it is easy to miss out how the palestinians attitude towards the Israelis was quite violent and sometimes radical just like today, way before 1967' and 1948'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

Let alone the terror was even more severe every time right after we fully agreed to let them an indepentent state in the west bank and to go back to 67' lines (with areas exchanges).

Edited November 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[Karmadhi]

@Nivsch You seem like a reasonable person that is not full of hate, unlike some people on this forum pro Israel which are a lot more radical and harsh. But I fear that the ones in power in Israel and in the military are radicals which is causing all this. 

The second step towards peace after Hamas is gone, is for the current ring wing elements in the government of Israel to also go.

I am sure we can agree on that.

[Nivsch]

30 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Nivsch You seem like a reasonable person that is not full of hate, unlike some people on this forum pro Israel which are a lot more radical and harsh. But I fear that the ones in power in Israel and in the military are radicals which is causing all this. 

The second step towards peace after Hamas is gone, is for the current ring wing elements in the government of Israel to also go.

I am sure we can agree on that.

But on the war which its goal is to eliminate hamas completely every one here is agree. Both left and right.

The controversy is only about the day AFTER hamas is gone, and about that the far-right wants to re-settle in Gaza.

The vast majority in Israel doesn't want at all to re-settle there and want only to give the control on Gaza to either the palestinian authority or an international force, probably with IDF help and right to enter into Key points in Gaza in any time to prevent terror cells from growing.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Nivsch

[BlueOak]

Yes. But don't worry it was pretty terrible anyway outside of Europe or the Pacific. As for neutral parties. Those that care about reputation will still care, those that don't won't. Nothing much changed. Biden just made Trumps victory more likely.

Though when trump is in court all next year, he's broke financially from his civil trials, lawyer fees and constant losing, its not going to help him outside of his most infatuated supporters adoring the victim complex or anti-establishment chest beating. Rightwingers traditionally only back winners, and prefer strengthening institutions, especially ones responsible for law and order, but it'll be increasingly clear trumps losing repeatedly and running against these same institutions they want to preserve.

It'll be a battle as to whether:

Leftwing Populists want to support a corporate conservative in Biden, in an eternal cycle that kills all leftwing populism and encourages it on the right. Add to that now the ethnic cleansing guarded and supported by the American military which will deflate the democratic vote.

OR

Conservatives want to continue to burn down American institutions by electing a criminal, via Trumps continued attack on the FBI, the Courts, the Vote, the House, Homeland Security, even the military now, aka everyone who doesn't kiss his narcissistic behind.

It is the epitome of both sides having to vote against their own innate interests, confronted with what they hate. Of course, there are people this serves, people who love corporations or people who love burning institutions down, rightwing anarchists for example, see Argentina for that result. On the extreme, I've heard some leftwing anarchists starting to lean towards Trump's rhetoric or at least to go third party, as don't forget you still have 4 potential people on the presidential ballot even when the primary is over with. If it was done right now, those two alternate candidates would pick up more of the voting share than America has perhaps ever seen happen before.

Why do I care so much? Because England tends to copy America in some fashion, only with more supposed civility and less overt physical violence. That and the descent of America is the rise of the authoritarian replacement BRICS. If in any small way can slow that impending reality and disaster down till I am no longer on this Earth, it'd be useful.

*Its Israel that this occupation will affect more than anyone. As the world becomes further and further right from this point, fewer people will care about what happens to anyone outside of their borders. Israel will be an occupying force entirely surrounded by enemies with a recent ethnic cleansing against Arabs to deal with.

Edited November 22, 2023 by BlueOak