I think Jed McKenna & possibly Leo are wrong about meditation

[r0ckyreed]

So, I do not know about Leo Gura nor Jed Mckenna's current position on meditation, so I am stating this based off of what they have said in the past.

It is my understanding right now that Leo and Jed McKenna think that meditation is a Buddhist game and will not lead to awakening nor enlightenment.

I even wrote an old post about how Jed Mckenna is against the idea of meditation but then advocates for it through his Spiritual Autolysis method for madness.

I remember Leo making an old blog post about saying that meditation will not awaken you. But then I was thinking that meditation is not about the end result but about the process of increasing consciousness throughout the day towards the present moment. It is about witnessing and being aware of the God/Divine within and all around. 

It just seemed from Leo and Jed that meditation will not lead to awakening. But what is awakening if you take psychedelics once a week and then the rest of the week, you are scrolling on TikTok, going to bars, and drinking beer? It seems unrealistic to take psychedelics every day to remain awake in the God-State. It is just another dopamine spike chase. Therefore, I really do not think it matters whether meditation will lead you to the highest peak of all AWAKENING. I think meditation is about bringing more awareness and mindfulness throughout the day.

To me personally, I have changed my definition of meditation. I still think that sitting down and counting breaths is a waste of time. I am reading Osho's book on meditation, and he talks about how there are right and wrong ways to meditate. He states that at the end of the day, meditation is about increasing awareness and is not about concentration. With concentration we focus on 1% of reality and dismiss 99% of it.

I think meditation is important even if it doesn't produce any AWAKENING because what is the alternative? You are going to dissociate and scroll on TikTok after you reach God-Realization on a psychedelic. But I would actually challenge that if you did reach Truth-Realization, you would meditate and remain aware of all the beauty and intelligence around you.

Meditation to me is all about increasing one's consciousness to be aware of God.

In fact, my personal meditation practice is this:

1. I sit down and just focus on quieting my mind and becoming deeply satisfied and aware of the beauty of this present moment. I do this for about a couple minutes.

2. I invoke awe by engaging my mind and becoming deeply existentially curious about the present moment and deeply questioning and contemplating it.

- (one of my main criticisms of Buddhist meditation is that they tell you to keep returning your awareness to the breath even if you are deeply curious and have creative thoughts but this teaches you to dull your mind and not to engage with creativity/curiosity).

3. I write down any insights I have from the contemplation in my journal.

That's it! I start with quieting my mind to focus on creating an awareness of quietude of thought and end it with quietude of thought. In the middle of my meditation practice is when I engage my mind in-between the quietudes and use my mind to contemplate and explore my curiosity. 

If your meditation practice is not increasing your curiosity and connecting you to awe of existence, then you are doing it wrong and are making it monotonous. 

In this case, Leo and Jed are right that no amount of meditation can awaken you because your practice is making you more dull to existence than awake. Just counting your breaths is not going to help you awaken. You have to have a deep understanding that this is true. If all you do is count your breaths and listen to sounds, you are going to miss 90% of reality. You have to learn how to use your mind rather than suppress it. 

My practice helps me to connect my mind to awe. And I believe my practice will help me awaken even deeper than your average person who uses 5-me0 DMT while counting their breaths the whole time.

I am just spewing my thoughts out here.

What do you all think?

[Breakingthewall]

It's strange that Leo says that. If you have realized the reality of now, the depth of what you are, the life and glory that this moment is, you will know that meditating is opening yourself to it, separating yourself from maya, from the mental, and opening yourself to the real, to the alive depth . you would want to do it. In fact, doing psychedelics is really a meditative exercise, and you will want to meditate also without psychedelics, going deeper and deeper into yourself, realizing the beauty. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

Meditate not because it is right or wrong, but because you genuinely enjoy it.

[Yimpa]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's strange that Leo says that.

And becoming cartoon wolf consciousness and shitting all over your carpet isn’t…?!

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Yimpa said:

And becoming cartoon wolf consciousness and shitting all over your carpet isn’t…?!

Just two psychedelic trips right? But thinking that meditation is useless is strange if you have realized what you are, because even you are in a meditative state all time, to sit and do formal meditation makes you going deeper into yourself

[Yimpa]

@Breakingthewall I mean, there was a point in my life where I thought that going to church every Sunday was important… for something *shrugs*

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

@Breakingthewall I mean, there was a point in my life where I thought that going to church every Sunday was important… for something *shrugs*

I always thought it was extremely boring. When I heard: you can go in peace, I answered: hallelujah.

Forcing a 10-year-old to listen to this incomprehensible shit every Sunday is perfect for making him an atheist 😂

Edited November 21, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

18 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

So, I do not know about Leo Gura nor Jed Mckenna's current position on meditation, so I am stating this based off of what they have said in the past.

It is my understanding right now that Leo and Jed McKenna think that meditation is a Buddhist game and will not lead to awakening nor enlightenment.

I even wrote an old post about how Jed Mckenna is against the idea of meditation but then advocates for it through his Spiritual Autolysis method for madness.

I remember Leo making an old blog post about saying that meditation will not awaken you. But then I was thinking that meditation is not about the end result but about the process of increasing consciousness throughout the day towards the present moment. It is about witnessing and being aware of the God/Divine within and all around. 

It just seemed from Leo and Jed that meditation will not lead to awakening. But what is awakening if you take psychedelics once a week and then the rest of the week, you are scrolling on TikTok, going to bars, and drinking beer? It seems unrealistic to take psychedelics every day to remain awake in the God-State. It is just another dopamine spike chase. Therefore, I really do not think it matters whether meditation will lead you to the highest peak of all AWAKENING. I think meditation is about bringing more awareness and mindfulness throughout the day.

To me personally, I have changed my definition of meditation. I still think that sitting down and counting breaths is a waste of time. I am reading Osho's book on meditation, and he talks about how there are right and wrong ways to meditate. He states that at the end of the day, meditation is about increasing awareness and is not about concentration. With concentration we focus on 1% of reality and dismiss 99% of it.

I think meditation is important even if it doesn't produce any AWAKENING because what is the alternative? You are going to dissociate and scroll on TikTok after you reach God-Realization on a psychedelic. But I would actually challenge that if you did reach Truth-Realization, you would meditate and remain aware of all the beauty and intelligence around you.

Meditation to me is all about increasing one's consciousness to be aware of God.

In fact, my personal meditation practice is this:

1. I sit down and just focus on quieting my mind and becoming deeply satisfied and aware of the beauty of this present moment. I do this for about a couple minutes.

2. I invoke awe by engaging my mind and becoming deeply existentially curious about the present moment and deeply questioning and contemplating it.

- (one of my main criticisms of Buddhist meditation is that they tell you to keep returning your awareness to the breath even if you are deeply curious and have creative thoughts but this teaches you to dull your mind and not to engage with creativity/curiosity).

3. I write down any insights I have from the contemplation in my journal.

That's it! I start with quieting my mind to focus on creating an awareness of quietude of thought and end it with quietude of thought. In the middle of my meditation practice is when I engage my mind in-between the quietudes and use my mind to contemplate and explore my curiosity. 

If your meditation practice is not increasing your curiosity and connecting you to awe of existence, then you are doing it wrong and are making it monotonous. 

In this case, Leo and Jed are right that no amount of meditation can awaken you because your practice is making you more dull to existence than awake. Just counting your breaths is not going to help you awaken. You have to have a deep understanding that this is true. If all you do is count your breaths and listen to sounds, you are going to miss 90% of reality. You have to learn how to use your mind rather than suppress it. 

My practice helps me to connect my mind to awe. And I believe my practice will help me awaken even deeper than your average person who uses 5-me0 DMT while counting their breaths the whole time.

I am just spewing my thoughts out here.

What do you all think?

Go ask an serial killer/rapist, who believes that ants are holy deities sent here to save humanity from the coming rat infestation that will destroy humanity to sit and meditate so they can become aware of their true nature. You guys keep creating distinctions. There is no meditation, meditation is an illusion!!! Existence IS MEDITATION!!! The point of what you call meditation, is just to sit still, and observe that you are existence. But technically you are ALWAYS doing that.

When are you NOT observing? When you watch your favorite movie you are meditating on the movie. When you practice shooting a basketball you are meditating on shooting the basketball and becoming aware of how to better place your fingers, and how to better adjust the force you use to perfect the arc of the shot so you can put the ball in the basket at a higher rate.

This is why I have said ^^^^EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUALITY!!! I literally keep giving you guys pointers and you all keep putting yourself back to sleep!!! All of life teaches you how to wake up. ALL OF LIFE. Spiritual practices are POINTERS, you cannot wake up through meditation. If that was the case ANYBODY can wake up if they meditated enough.

Study LIFE!!! And Life will teach you!!! Basketball is spirituality. Video Games is Spirituality. Porn is spirituality. Sitting down and doing nothing is spirituality. EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUALITY you bias characters!!! Yall are bias!!!!! Stop creating distinctions!!! 

The only thing that stop you from awakening is a CLOSED MIND, a CLOSED MIND is a BIASED MIND. A creator.....has NO BIAS!!!! True love, true care, true mastery, true understanding, is devoid of bias. So drop your human perspective. A person can have an awakening while watching porn, while playing video games, or while playing a sport. 

Why do you think people have spontaneous awakenings? Really ask yourself why. It is NOT random. I have already told yall how to do it, and yall ignore. My gosh. All yall biases just blind yall. Yall demonize religion, not realizing that religion teaches the DIRECT PATH!!! Ignore the dogma in religion, look at what religion points to. 

Why does the self-help community exist? What do they point to? They point to mastery. Mastery can lead to awakening.

Why does philosophy and self-inquiry exist? What do they point to? They point to an investigation into the nature of your existence.

Why does Science exist? What does it point to? It points to an investigation into the nature of existence.

Everything...is pointing to the same thing.....figure it out. There is nothing random here. It is all constructed a particular way.

Think like a CREATOR, NOT A CHARACTER THAT IS A PART OF THE CREATION. 

Bias is the resistance of that which feels bad=======The only thing that blocks you from awakening. Can you accept BAD? No matter how BAD it feels? Even if it feels like you are going insane? Losing your mind?

Edited November 22, 2023 by Razard86

[r0ckyreed]

8 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Go ask an serial killer/rapist, who believes that ants are holy deities sent here to save humanity from the coming rat infestation that will destroy humanity to sit and meditate so they can become aware of their true nature. You guys keep creating distinctions. There is no meditation, meditation is an illusion!!! Existence IS MEDITATION!!! The point of what you call meditation, is just to sit still, and observe that you are existence. But technically you are ALWAYS doing that.

When are you NOT observing? When you watch your favorite movie you are meditating on the movie. When you practice shooting a basketball you are meditating on shooting the basketball and becoming aware of how to better place your fingers, and how to better adjust the force you use to perfect the arc of the shot so you can put the ball in the basket at a higher rate.

This is why I have said ^^^^EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUALITY!!! I literally keep giving you guys pointers and you all keep putting yourself back to sleep!!! All of life teaches you how to wake up. ALL OF LIFE. Spiritual practices are POINTERS, you cannot wake up through meditation. If that was the case ANYBODY can wake up if they meditated enough.

Study LIFE!!! And Life will teach you!!! Basketball is spirituality. Video Games is Spirituality. Porn is spirituality. Sitting down and doing nothing is spirituality. EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUALITY you bias characters!!! Yall are bias!!!!! Stop creating distinctions!!! 

The only thing that stop you from awakening is a CLOSED MIND, a CLOSED MIND is a BIASED MIND. A creator.....has NO BIAS!!!! True love, true care, true mastery, true understanding, is devoid of bias. So drop your human perspective. A person can have an awakening while watching porn, while playing video games, or while playing a sport. 

Why do you think people have spontaneous awakenings? Really ask yourself why. It is NOT random. I have already told yall how to do it, and yall ignore. My gosh. All yall biases just blind yall. Yall demonize religion, not realizing that religion teaches the DIRECT PATH!!! Ignore the dogma in religion, look at what religion points to. 

Why does the self-help community exist? What do they point to? They point to mastery. Mastery can lead to awakening.

Why does philosophy and self-inquiry exist? What do they point to? They point to an investigation into the nature of your existence.

Why does Science exist? What does it point to? It points to an investigation into the nature of existence.

Everything...is pointing to the same thing.....figure it out. There is nothing random here. It is all constructed a particular way.

Think like a CREATOR, NOT A CHARACTER THAT IS A PART OF THE CREATION. 

Bias is the resistance of that which feels bad=======The only thing that blocks you from awakening. Can you accept BAD? No matter how BAD it feels? Even if it feels like you are going insane? Losing your mind?

I respectfully disagree. Dissociation is not meditation. There are proper and improper ways to meditate. You can be deeply connected and aware of truth or you are not. Meditation is about open awareness, and I know for a fact that I do not have a meditative awareness throughout my day. You have to create distinctions; otherwise, you are left standing where you are pissing.

Edited November 22, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Razard86]

26 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

I respectfully disagree. Dissociation is not meditation. There are proper and improper ways to meditate. You can be deeply connected and aware of truth or you are not. Meditation is about open awareness, and I know for a fact that I do not have a meditative awareness throughout my day. You have to create distinctions; otherwise, you are left standing where you are pissing.

On 11/21/2023 at 2:00 PM, r0ckyreed said:

So, I do not know about Leo Gura nor Jed Mckenna's current position on meditation, so I am stating this based off of what they have said in the past.

It is my understanding right now that Leo and Jed McKenna think that meditation is a Buddhist game and will not lead to awakening nor enlightenment.

I even wrote an old post about how Jed Mckenna is against the idea of meditation but then advocates for it through his Spiritual Autolysis method for madness.

I remember Leo making an old blog post about saying that meditation will not awaken you. But then I was thinking that meditation is not about the end result but about the process of increasing consciousness throughout the day towards the present moment. It is about witnessing and being aware of the God/Divine within and all around. 

It just seemed from Leo and Jed that meditation will not lead to awakening. But what is awakening if you take psychedelics once a week and then the rest of the week, you are scrolling on TikTok, going to bars, and drinking beer? It seems unrealistic to take psychedelics every day to remain awake in the God-State. It is just another dopamine spike chase. Therefore, I really do not think it matters whether meditation will lead you to the highest peak of all AWAKENING. I think meditation is about bringing more awareness and mindfulness throughout the day.

To me personally, I have changed my definition of meditation. I still think that sitting down and counting breaths is a waste of time. I am reading Osho's book on meditation, and he talks about how there are right and wrong ways to meditate. He states that at the end of the day, meditation is about increasing awareness and is not about concentration. With concentration we focus on 1% of reality and dismiss 99% of it.

I think meditation is important even if it doesn't produce any AWAKENING because what is the alternative? You are going to dissociate and scroll on TikTok after you reach God-Realization on a psychedelic. But I would actually challenge that if you did reach Truth-Realization, you would meditate and remain aware of all the beauty and intelligence around you.

Meditation to me is all about increasing one's consciousness to be aware of God.

In fact, my personal meditation practice is this:

1. I sit down and just focus on quieting my mind and becoming deeply satisfied and aware of the beauty of this present moment. I do this for about a couple minutes.

2. I invoke awe by engaging my mind and becoming deeply existentially curious about the present moment and deeply questioning and contemplating it.

- (one of my main criticisms of Buddhist meditation is that they tell you to keep returning your awareness to the breath even if you are deeply curious and have creative thoughts but this teaches you to dull your mind and not to engage with creativity/curiosity).

3. I write down any insights I have from the contemplation in my journal.

That's it! I start with quieting my mind to focus on creating an awareness of quietude of thought and end it with quietude of thought. In the middle of my meditation practice is when I engage my mind in-between the quietudes and use my mind to contemplate and explore my curiosity. 

If your meditation practice is not increasing your curiosity and connecting you to awe of existence, then you are doing it wrong and are making it monotonous. 

In this case, Leo and Jed are right that no amount of meditation can awaken you because your practice is making you more dull to existence than awake. Just counting your breaths is not going to help you awaken. You have to have a deep understanding that this is true. If all you do is count your breaths and listen to sounds, you are going to miss 90% of reality. You have to learn how to use your mind rather than suppress it. 

My practice helps me to connect my mind to awe. And I believe my practice will help me awaken even deeper than your average person who uses 5-me0 DMT while counting their breaths the whole time.

I am just spewing my thoughts out here.

What do you all think?

You said disassociation is not meditation? *Cough*

Self Inquiry= Not this, Not that, Neti Neti= I disassociate myself from this and that to FIND ME!!!

^^^^Which is meditation. Because you have to be present...WHICH YOU ALWAYS ARE....you are ALWAYS PRESENT. Even lost in thought you are present, you are present in your thought. You are always just shifting your awareness to something. You expand it and you contract it. Concentration is a contraction of awareness to a single point of focus.

This isn't complicated. You are creating stories more and more stories. 

You biased Masculine Minds. You are like a scientist in a dream in a lab trying to find out reality....while IN reality. You will chase your tail...luckily your body can drop otherwise you will chase your tail for infinity.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Razard86

[koops]

On 21/11/2023 at 8:00 PM, r0ckyreed said:

It just seemed from Leo and Jed that meditation will not lead to awakening. But what is awakening if you take psychedelics once a week and then the rest of the week, you are scrolling on TikTok, going to bars, and drinking beer? It seems unrealistic to take psychedelics every day to remain awake in the God-State. It is just another dopamine spike chase. Therefore, I really do not think it matters whether meditation will lead you to the highest peak of all AWAKENING. I think meditation is about bringing more awareness and mindfulness throughout the day.

I think meditation is important even if it doesn't produce any AWAKENING because what is the alternative? You are going to dissociate and scroll on TikTok after you reach God-Realization on a psychedelic. But I would actually challenge that if you did reach Truth-Realization, you would meditate and remain aware of all the beauty and intelligence around you.

My practice helps me to connect my mind to awe. And I believe my practice will help me awaken even deeper than your average person who uses 5-me0 DMT while counting their breaths the whole time.

 

You are mixing 2 different things

-You can take 5-Meo, awaken and then live a shity lifestyle.

-You can meditate 10 hours a day for 50 years, not awaken and live a great lifestyle.

An awakening is a realization, not a lifestyle.

 

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

EVERYTHING IS SPIRITUALITY you bias characters!!! Yall are bias!!!!! Stop creating distinctions!!! 

The only thing that stop you from awakening is a CLOSED MIND, a CLOSED MIND is a BIASED MIND. A creator.....has NO BIAS!!!! True love, true care, true mastery, true understanding, is devoid of bias. So drop your human perspective. A person can have an awakening while watching porn, while playing video games, or while playing a sport. 

Why do you think people have spontaneous awakenings? Really ask yourself why. It is NOT random. I have already told yall how to do it, and yall ignore. My gosh. All yall biases just blind yall. Yall demonize religion, not realizing that religion teaches the DIRECT PATH!!! Ignore the dogma in religion, look at what religion points to. 

.

Think like a CREATOR, NOT A CHARACTER THAT IS A PART OF THE CREATION. 

Bias is the resistance of that which feels bad=======The only thing that blocks you from awakening. Can you accept BAD? No matter how BAD it feels? Even if it feels like you are going insane? Losing your mind?

 

58 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Self Inquiry= Not this, Not that, Neti Neti= I disassociate myself from this and that to FIND ME!!!

This isn't complicated. You are creating stories more and more stories. 

You biased Masculine Minds. You are like a scientist in a dream in a lab trying to find out reality....while IN reality. You will chase your tail...luckily your body can drop otherwise you will chase your tail for infinity.

 

@r0ckyreed read this ^ 

Edited November 22, 2023 by koops

[r0ckyreed]

16 hours ago, koops said:

You are mixing 2 different things

-You can take 5-Meo, awaken and then live a shity lifestyle.

-You can meditate 10 hours a day for 50 years, not awaken and live a great lifestyle.

An awakening is a realization, not a lifestyle.

 

 

@r0ckyreed read this ^ 

Thats where I differ. To me, a realization is not really a realization if it doesn’t change your life. If you say you realize God but then go about being a Devil, then I would argue that you didn’t really realize God. Awakening and lifestyle go together. Awakening isn’t about chasing a dopamine pike experience, it is about deep understanding of what truth is. And a deep understanding will change your life. It is not just chopping wood and carrying water, it is about changing your way of life, which starts with a change in your perspective and understanding.

Edited November 23, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[Carl-Richard]

Meditation for me is literally just to sit and close my eyes.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Yimpa]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Meditation for me is literally just to sit and close my eyes.

Sometimes while I’m meditating with my eyes closed, my eyes will slowly open spontaneously and I start staring into whatever is in front of me.

[koops]

29 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

If you say you realize God but then go about being a Devil, then I would argue that you didn’t really realize God.

Of course they can.

Is what Leo calls Zen devilry

Search for all the scandals of the biggest gurus. There are a lot.

Some of them are manipulative and narcissistic.

 

54 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

Awakening and lifestyle go together

Thats an assumption you are making up.

I agree with you that both are best.

Its something you have to work to, but they don't necessarily go together.

 

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, koops said:

Of course they can.

Is what Leo calls Zen devilry

Search for all the scandals of the biggest gurus. There are a lot.

Some of them are manipulative and narcissistic.

 

Thats an assumption you are making up.

I agree with you that both are best.

Its something you have to work to, but they don't necessarily go together.

 

They didn’t realize no-self. They created an identity out of no-self. 

If what you are saying is true, then I am already enlightened/awakened. But I do not consider myself to be awakened because my lifestyle is not centered around that understanding. Understanding is more than just an insight, it is an entire change to your life. If you don’t live from your own wisdom, then I would suggest that you don’t have it.

Edited November 23, 2023 by r0ckyreed

[koops]

hahah Osho, Pattabhi, Mooji, Balsekar... didn't realize no-self?

[r0ckyreed]

1 hour ago, koops said:

hahah Osho, Pattabhi, Mooji, Balsekar... didn't realize no-self?

Obviously. 

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

Meditation(Spiritual Sodhana) is a practical way to mechanically maintain a higher state of consciousness. It's like taking steroids and not working out is the equivalent of using psychedelics and not doing daily Sodhana. It's a fools game. 

What sodhana does differs per individual based on genetics and requisite variety. You can't place meditation in a box or attribute all of its value to one school of thought. Hope this helps!

There is no definition of meditation. There are a plethora of ways to meditate. Sitting with eyes closed is not meditation. I call it mind training. Applied metaphysics. Becoming a self disciplinarian. 

[MAHAVATAR_-_BABAJI]

2 hours ago, koops said:

hahah Osho, Pattabhi, Mooji, Balsekar... didn't realize no-self?

You have no idea of their attainments. No one does but them. They weren't sages for no reason.