Respectfully disagreeing with Leo about Crypto

[josemar]

You don't have to trade daily, just buy index funds instead of keeping money in the bank where inflation will diminish it away to nothing.

Or what do you recommend to do with the money, buy property, gold, or...?

[Leo Gura]

On 7/11/2024 at 3:29 PM, Chadders said:

@Dodo In my eyes crypto is bullshit. You’re not creating value in the world just making bets on artificial nothingness

I would extend that to stock trading more generally which is mostly bs too. I have a very low approval of the whole trading game. It’s all bullshit. Share prices are at an all time high and it has nothing to do with the actual real world economy but the people fawn over it

Crypto is dumb, but stocks are legit. You just gotta pick solid companies and hold for years. Stocks generate real value, not as trades but from the work and innovation of the people in the companies.

Edited July 13 by Leo Gura

[Dodo]

Stocks massive bubbles too, everything is a bubble, nothing is safe. The only thing safe is having a job and not gambling 

[r0ckyreed]

8 hours ago, Dodo said:

Stocks massive bubbles too, everything is a bubble, nothing is safe. The only thing safe is having a job and not gambling 

Even a job is a gamble. If everything is a gamble, then you might as well make smart gambles. Keeping your money in the bank is a gamble because your money loses value from inflation 3-5% per year. Whereas investing in a mutual fund with a solid track history is a calculated risk. Driving your car to work is a gamble, but there are ways you can do it consciously and unconsciously.

Life is a game a Texas Hold'em. We don't get to choose our cards. All we can do is play our best hand with what we have been dealt with and keep moving forward.

Edited July 13 by r0ckyreed

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

Even a job is a gamble. If everything is a gamble, then you might as well make smart gambles. Keeping your money in the bank is a gamble because your money loses value from inflation 3-5% per year. Whereas investing in a mutual fund with a solid track history is a calculated risk. Driving your car to work is a gamble, but there are ways you can do it consciously and unconsciously.

Life is a game a Texas Hold'em. We don't get to choose our cards. All we can do is play our best hand with what we have been dealt with and keep moving forward.

Thats exactly how gambler rationalizes gambling. You want to be helpful to society in some way. I can make profit playing actual texas holdem, but i know its a game of sharp diamonds, not a game of hearts. If I am winning from it, some poor soul is losing. 

I'd rather get a salary from a job that does something meaningful. Not to be rich because I had right timing on an investment. 

What is your end goal after investing? Is it not to convert it back into dollars? Say your investment goes 10x. Do you take profit? 

What happens to the new silly buyers once old buyers start taking their profits? You go to the bahamas and they go begging on the street, thats what happens.

[FourCrossedWands]

In fact, crypto is actually hurting the economy. There are millions of deluded young people (mostly males) who should be investing time in their careers and spending money on quality food, but instead they live on a bowl of rice and are glued to their monitors thinking they will become millionaires without lifting a finger.

Yes, there will be a couple of millionaires but 99,9% will lose everything once the bubble crashes and crypto becomes obsolete.

[OBEler]

16 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

In fact, crypto is actually hurting the economy. There are millions of deluded young people (mostly males) who should be investing time in their careers and spending money on quality food, but instead they live on a bowl of rice and are glued to their monitors thinking they will become millionaires without lifting a finger.

Yes, there will be a couple of millionaires but 99,9% will lose everything once the bubble crashes and crypto becomes obsolete.

Nah... A bit over exaggerating and you can also say that with regular stocks it's just not so volatile.

[FourCrossedWands]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

Nah... A bit over exaggerating and you can also say that with regular stocks it's just not so volatile.

Yes, but there are not that many young people putting everything they have into stocks in hope of becoming millionaires, are there?

Also, putting money into stock supports the economy whereas putting it into crypto is like buying thousands of overpriced .com domains in the late 90s.

Edited July 13 by FourCrossedWands

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, FourCrossedWands said:

putting it into crypto is like buying thousands of overpriced .com domains in the late 90s.

Excuse me! I made my fortune selling dicks.com

[Wizardking]

On 13/07/2024 at 4:44 AM, Leo Gura said:

Crypto is dumb, but stocks are legit. You just gotta pick solid companies and hold for years. Stocks generate real value, not as trades but from the work and innovation of the people in the companies.

Could you elaborate on why you think that? In my interpretation of crypto that seems like a rather ignorant claim. You should look up the solid projects. Chainlink for example has just partnered up with Swiss. A lot of AI developers are also saying that crypto and blockchain technology will be part of AI. 

[jimwell]

On 7/13/2024 at 10:01 PM, Dodo said:

What is your end goal after investing? Is it not to convert it back into dollars? Say your investment goes 10x. Do you take profit? 

What happens to the new silly buyers once old buyers start taking their profits? You go to the bahamas and they go begging on the street, thats what happens.

You're singing a different tune now.

Yes, it's correct that your profit is somebody else's loss. But you must ask yourself where the money really originates. Don't just believe Leo when he says it's from the company's employees.

Over 90% of money from stock, currency, and other forms of trading originates from banks, central banks, investment institutions, and other financial corporations. Individual traders and investors such as you and me take a very small percentage. So, the vast majority of profits we accomplish from trading originate from those big players, not from other individual traders or company employees' salaries.

Remember, it's the business owners, CEOs, insider shareholders, and top members of the corporate hierarchies who take the money away from their salary slaves (employees, to make it sound more polite) via exploitation and other unfair dealings. These capitalism winners then invest their wealth via banks, investment firms, and other financial corporations which engage in short-term and long-term trades and investments. So, if you win trades or obtain profits, you directly take money away from these capitalism winners, not from their salary slaves.

I'm not advocating for trading. I'm just explaining what I see or perceive. If you don't have big ambitions or can simply obtain money via starting a business, then avoid trading or short-term investments. Or, if you're satisfied being a salary slave, it's best to avoid trading.

But there are situations such as mine which involve trading as a way to materialize a purpose and ambitions. I gamble because it's worth it. I have already lost a few thousand USD. I'm from a third-world country, so a few thousand USD is equivalent to tens of thousands of USD in the USA. So, it hurts very badly. But I never regret it because I knew exactly the reward and the risk involved. It's better to incur a big loss than not do anything. It's better to be scammed than not do anything. Life itself is a gamble. You can't just say, 'I won't travel because I risk being crushed in a car or airplane accident. Or perhaps I'll end up being murdered on the streets.' Staying at home eliminates such risks, but it also incurs other forms of risks and consequences.

I'll take a break from trading for now to recover from the emotional and monetary damage. But I'll hone my trading skills and then trade again. This might sound foolish, but I know my path and what needs to be accomplished.   

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Wizardking said:

Could you elaborate on why you think that? In my interpretation of crypto that seems like a rather ignorant claim. You should look up the solid projects.

I'm not saying there won't be a few solid projects. But overall, on the whole, the crypto hype community is built on immature values, the values of libertarian man-children, theives, con-artists, and the lust for easy money. Investing your money with such people is a fool's game.

Again, full disclosure: I own some Bitcoin. But if you want to do proper investing crypto ain't it.

I say this because a lot of young people have gotten fooled by the hype machine that crypto is how to do proper investing.

Edited July 14 by Leo Gura

[BlessedLion]

Crypto is the shit and is one of the easiest ways to get rich right now. Stocks , real estate are okay, I’ve done well in those fields as well and I’m not shitting on them. But crypto is going to absolutely pop. End of year, 100- 150K 

[FourCrossedWands]

34 minutes ago, BlessedLion said:

But crypto is going to absolutely pop. End of year, 100- 150K 

Wasn't it supposed to be 150k like 5 years ago?

[Wizardking]

11 hours ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Wasn't it supposed to be 150k like 5 years ago?

Damn you're right... It didn't reach 150k last cycle... It only did a 10x. What a foolish investment 😂

[FourCrossedWands]

1 hour ago, Wizardking said:

Damn you're right... It didn't reach 150k last cycle... It only did a 10x. What a foolish investment 😂

It is a bad investment compared to AMD or Nvidia.

[Wizardking]

@FourCrossedWands That I do agree on

[Leo Gura]

On 7/15/2024 at 4:07 PM, BlessedLion said:

Crypto is the shit and is one of the easiest ways to get rich right now. Stocks , real estate are okay, I’ve done well in those fields as well and I’m not shitting on them. But crypto is going to absolutely pop. End of year, 100- 150K 

Keep in mind that the markets right now are overheated and due for a crash. And if this happens, Bitcoin will be the first to crash as everyone pulls out of speculative investments.

The problem for crypto-optimists is that crypto has been the first to crash when markets crash, and crypto does not perform well when inflation is high. This contradicts the whole crypto hype narrative. Crypto doesn't do what it is said to do.

I expect a market crash within a year or two and crypto will crash right beforehand. If you buy today's hype like a fool you will be beaten over the head with a club.

Money ain't free. The beating is about to come.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura

[Greatnestwithin]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Keep in mind that the markets right now are overheated and due for a crash. And if this happens, Bitcoin will be the first to crash as everyone pulls out of speculative investments.

The problem for crypto-optimists is that crypto has been the first to crash when markets crash, and crypto does not perform well when inflation is high. This contradicts the whole crypto hype narrative. Crypto doesn't do what it is said to do.

I expect a market crash within a year or two and crypto will crash right beforehand. If you buy today's hype like a fool you will be beaten over the head with a club.

Money ain't free. The beating is about to come.

@Leo GuraI imagine outside of crypto you keep on investing even if the market crashes¿

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Greatnestwithin said:

@Leo GuraI imagine outside of crypto you keep on investing even if the market crashes.

No way. You don't want to endure the next crash. You will be bleeding money. You would be crazy to invest in stocks right now.

I expect a 50% market crash within 2 years or so and if that happens an 80% crash in crypto. All this AI hype has got to pop.

Edited July 17 by Leo Gura