Respectfully disagreeing with Leo about Crypto

[bebotalk]

4 hours ago, josemar said:

The title of the thread is about crypto, and posts discuss crypto in general.

Satoshi was wrong about the currency part, but that doesn't matter... There are other examples in history when new products are used in different ways than intended by the inventor/original, doesn't make it any less useful. 

You could use bitcoin to pay for small stuff, but the transaction prices are prohibitive... because of the price of bitcoin.

Now, you can take advantage of the properties of bitcoin as a much better store of value than real estate, gold, stocks etc, or you can crib and moan about how it's not fulfilling Satoshi's vision.

As a currency, it seems Solana is much better suited, it has much higher speed (with final settlement at level 1 in milliseconds), very low fees (pennies), with the disadvantage that it is more centralized. Decentralization is not much of an advantage for day to day purchases.

And I'm sure there are others.

Even the crypto equivalent of the USD, Tether, is much faster for transfers around the globe with much lower fees.

 

No, the stated point of crypto is a rival to fiat currencies. it hasn't become that.

i love it when arrogant Hispanic dudes get the huff over petty nonsense. Stop boasting about being such a "master" socially when you're anything but! i know me calling you out vexes you to your core. 

Normal person - "meh, whatever! screw you!!"

You and people like you "HOW DARE YOU!! I WILL F YOU UP!!!" 

I was never told I had to "always" look up to anybody; it's your brain/mind at play, not mine.

[Dodo]

15 hours ago, josemar said:

Not if you shorted the ATH, happened live on Jayson's stream...

What's the original and true purpose, whatever Satoshi wrote in his whitepaper?

Presumably you're talking specifically about bitcoin? It's a store of value, like real estate, gold, stocks etc. You can't pay  for a coffee with most of these directly.

 

bro  the guy has no job, i was at work when it happened, and its also pretty hindsight to say this, what if he got immediately liquidated lol. You cant know what will happen before you place the trade. I do not respect shorters, only long bottoms. What short m8! Thats full blown gambling. I thought you were bullish and you now saying "not if you shorted" lmao ok so we not bullish are we 

Edited March 6 by Dodo

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, bebotalk said:

No, the stated point of crypto is a rival to fiat currencies. it hasn't become that.

i love it when arrogant Hispanic dudes get the huff over petty nonsense. Stop boasting about being such a "master" socially when you're anything but! i know me calling you out vexes you to your core. 

Normal person - "meh, whatever! screw you!!"

You and people like you "HOW DARE YOU!! I WILL F YOU UP!!!" 

I was never told I had to "always" look up to anybody; it's your brain/mind at play, not mine.

Jose is a bit drunk with power at the moment, he is definitely not experienced, but has a lot of dough and skin in the game, so a bit of dunning kruger is at play. 

One of the cryptos that most resembles Fiat currencies is Doge, because it is inflationary. The best friend of the human is Doge, right? Hehe. 

Ethereum and Solana are smart chains, they are not designed to be currency, their chains are for creating dapps (decentralised applications) and smart contracts .

We actually dont want crypto to be like fiat, we dont like inflation, and thats one of the strong points of Bitcoin, not only you cant make more, but the current supply goes down, making it scarce. 

If you want to send money you use xrp or xlm. I'd like to see you transfer your money offshore by sending gold. Or you can just use the current system SWIFT which is slow and heavy.

There's a crypto for everything. Metaverse is coming. Internet of things is coming. I invest. 

Edited March 6 by Dodo

[josemar]

 

2 hours ago, bebotalk said:

No, the stated point of crypto is a rival to fiat currencies. it hasn't become that.

i love it when arrogant Hispanic dudes get the huff over petty nonsense. Stop boasting about being such a "master" socially when you're anything but! i know me calling you out vexes you to your core. 

Normal person - "meh, whatever! screw you!!"

You and people like you "HOW DARE YOU!! I WILL F YOU UP!!!" 

I was never told I had to "always" look up to anybody; it's your brain/mind at play, not mine.

Apologies, are you replying to someone else? I don't see the link between your reply to my comment...

1 hour ago, Dodo said:

bro  the guy has no job, i was at work when it happened, and its also pretty hindsight to say this, what if he got immediately liquidated lol. You cant know what will happen before you place the trade. I do not respect shorters, only long bottoms. What short m8! Thats full blown gambling. I thought you were bullish and you now saying "not if you shorted" lmao ok so we not bullish are we 

Just because you make some extra money shorting, doesn't mean you're not bullish long term... I haven't even taken profits at the ATH on my longs, that's how bullish I am.

If he (and I) got immediately liquidated, we would have lost 1% max of our respective accounts, using proper risk management, that I keep talking about but people seem to ignore. Instead I've made 15% of my account profit. Sure, I could have left money on the table, but how many times are we presented with such a perfect short opportunity? Once every 4 years? 

Because a lot of people and traders placed their sell orders at the ATH, it was 99.9% guaranteed we would reject from there on the first (few?) tries, until the supply is chewed up. And if not, again, I would have lost 1%, which is absolutely acceptable and the whole point of trading.

[Dodo]

3 hours ago, josemar said:

 

Apologies, are you replying to someone else? I don't see the link between your reply to my comment...

Just because you make some extra money shorting, doesn't mean you're not bullish long term... I haven't even taken profits at the ATH on my longs, that's how bullish I am.

If he (and I) got immediately liquidated, we would have lost 1% max of our respective accounts, using proper risk management, that I keep talking about but people seem to ignore. Instead I've made 15% of my account profit. Sure, I could have left money on the table, but how many times are we presented with such a perfect short opportunity? Once every 4 years? 

Because a lot of people and traders placed their sell orders at the ATH, it was 99.9% guaranteed we would reject from there on the first (few?) tries, until the supply is chewed up. And if not, again, I would have lost 1%, which is absolutely acceptable and the whole point of trading.

99.9percent gimme a break. Ofcourse u dont sell your long at ath, its dumb to sell there, only rich dudes like you holding longs with big money spot and opening shorts on leverage easy mode for a quick buck sell there, if lose the short you're still set right?

But when i said the day was nasty, you said "not if you shorted". Not everybody has 100k to stick in spot and then gamble on shorts, essentially scamming the rest of the market, because for you if you lost the short is no biggie, but if you actually sold your 100k spot position and missed out it would be a biggie. 

The dump was a nasty nasty scummy leverage hunt. There is no "Not if you shorted". It is always about my low entry lever positions surviving, you are playing spot from 50k, which btw is a very late entry, if I had your type of money I wouldve bought way way way lower, no question about it, but because I am a small fish with big brains, I have to play on extreme leverage and sometimes get scammed by moves like these. 

 

 

You were literally asleep when it was really time to buy low risk, come in at 50k with a large sum of money from elsewhere, dont have to worry about liquidation and then all of a sudden you are a genius trader? You are playing pay to win at the moment, so I am really triggered by your "not if you shorted" comment, you would never have the balls or skill to buy bottom on big leverage, but when it comes to shorting the top it was 99.9percent, absolutely (was 99.9percent because in hindsight it happened and if it didnt you were perfectly happy due to spot, as i explained earlier)

Pay to win player trying to pretend the game is easy, when you missed so many great spots to buy before 50k. Astounding. You were not bullish when going was tough, only once the fomo kicked in right??

Edited March 6 by Dodo

[Leo Gura]

Bitcoin is not a currency. It is a high integrity store of value.

[Unlimited]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Bitcoin is not a currency. It is a high integrity store of value.

Are you against investing in crypto?

[wellbranding]

Well crypto is a very tough topic... I myself practice meditation, had few awakenings (thank you Leo, again ♥️), psychedelics trips.

Yet, co-founded a web3 company (DeFi), we have bootstrapped ourselves and now making 20-30k per month in profits. 

I would agree that majority of people are in crypto for profits. Greed. If you check VCs moves, you will see that they are picking up crypto because new web3 companies can quickly build up the necessary MOAT to generate cash flow. Largest stablecoin (Tether) generated 2.85B in profits in 2023. 

Also, majority have this emotional anger against the current capitalist structure and think that rich basically screw everyone other, so they don't have a choice - and build their skills in crypto to take over their share & drag everyone.

With mine situation - it is not that we earn money by trading. We've built a legitimate dApp with smart contracts. As a programmer, it is indeed enjoyable activity. I can't predict where the market will go & whether all cryptos crash (BTC, ETH probably already have a place as store of value) and web3 becomes useless, but the trend of VCs money flowing will continue. Majority of money also comes from saudi, asia, USA.

 

Also I disagree with Leo, that crypto is useless. By this logic we can tell that some of the "real" companies are even worse (tobacco, junk food). Labeling something as low/high consciousness is very difficult. We could say crypto is high consciousness because even if people lose money they learn about fraud in finance and banking, which exists in many places and in traditional finance. Also, they come in crypto for greed.

If you have some questions - I am open to answer 👌

 

 

Edited March 7 by wellbranding

[josemar]

 

8 hours ago, Dodo said:

99.9percent gimme a break. Ofcourse u dont sell your long at ath, its dumb to sell there, only rich dudes like you holding longs with big money spot and opening shorts on leverage easy mode for a quick buck sell there, if lose the short you're still set right?

But when i said the day was nasty, you said "not if you shorted". Not everybody has 100k to stick in spot and then gamble on shorts, essentially scamming the rest of the market, because for you if you lost the short is no biggie, but if you actually sold your 100k spot position and missed out it would be a biggie. 

The dump was a nasty nasty scummy leverage hunt. There is no "Not if you shorted". It is always about my low entry lever positions surviving, you are playing spot from 50k, which btw is a very late entry, if I had your type of money I wouldve bought way way way lower, no question about it, but because I am a small fish with big brains, I have to play on extreme leverage and sometimes get scammed by moves like these. 

 

 

You were literally asleep when it was really time to buy low risk, come in at 50k with a large sum of money from elsewhere, dont have to worry about liquidation and then all of a sudden you are a genius trader? You are playing pay to win at the moment, so I am really triggered by your "not if you shorted" comment, you would never have the balls or skill to buy bottom on big leverage, but when it comes to shorting the top it was 99.9percent, absolutely (was 99.9percent because in hindsight it happened and if it didnt you were perfectly happy due to spot, as i explained earlier)

Pay to win player trying to pretend the game is easy, when you missed so many great spots to buy before 50k. Astounding. You were not bullish when going was tough, only once the fomo kicked in right??

Dude... Do you think that me shorting the ATH moved the price down, is that why you're triggered ?? Well I'm happy you think I have this power, but in reality, the market makers do whatever they want with the price, the tricky thing is us as small fish to play with the whales and not get eaten, that is, swim in the same direction with them.

Sounds like you're trying to time major bottoms, enter high leverage there, then hope for the best, holding the positions for years... That's great, but funding fees will eat a lot of your profits (seen it as high as 0.08% every 8 hours). There are many types of trading, swing trading (what you appear to be doing) is just one, day and scalp trading are also valid strategies. They require more time and knowledge investment, but usually produce lots more profits, since you're taking lots more trades, each with a high potential.

I'm in spot BTC since 21k, it's just when I started being interested in crypto at the beginning of last year. My long leveraged positions, like I mentioned a few times before, now are probably at an average entry price of 50-54k, I didn't initially enter there, but kept taking partial profits, and adding to the positions on dips, that's why my entry price keeps going up.

8 hours ago, Dodo said:

if lose the short you're still set right?

OF COURSE!!! because I only risk 1% on any given trade!!! If you're worried about any particular trade, that means you're RISKING TOO MUCH !!! Lower your leverage, decrease position size, adjust your stop loss, until you don't care if you lose 1 trade. I don't think I can make it clearer that this !!!

8 hours ago, Dodo said:

The dump was a nasty nasty scummy leverage hunt. There is no "Not if you shorted". It is always about my low entry lever positions surviving, you are playing spot from 50k, which btw is a very late entry, if I had your type of money I wouldve bought way way way lower, no question about it, but because I am a small fish with big brains, I have to play on extreme leverage and sometimes get scammed by moves like these. 

Of course, when the market moves against you, it is the market's fault. And if the market moves with you, you're the genius small fish with a big brain. That's cool if that is what you have to tell yourself... Or, how about you learn how to trade, and stop blaming "the market"

 

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Bitcoin is not a currency. It is a high integrity store of value.

Yes!! 

Edited March 7 by josemar

[Dodo]

@josemar try turning small capital into big with risking 1 percent. Again I say you dont see small fish struggle, you think and say that you are a small fish, but you are not. If i could even put 5k in spot, i would be happy. I cant  afford that, so my only option to turn small money into big is to take that extra risk at strategic locations. 

Not just you moved the market, its the collection of big fish like you who open shorts against their own spot trades that do this. Maybe you are not a whale, but you are not a small fish .

[josemar]

If you have less than $10k to trade, I'd recommend working your normal job until you can afford it.

It's not impossible to turn small amounts into millions, but it is much riskier, since you're not using proper risk management.

Market makers liquidate tens of millions $ positions daily, I don't think my 100k makes much of a difference. That's how they make their money, by liquidating people. You learn how the market makers think by learning to trade (in the proper groups, not everybody with a youtube channel and a course to sell is good), and don't have to rely on 1 or 2 lucky entries.

At the ATH, there is a special level - because like I said, lots more people had their sell orders there, so even market makers probably couldn't have pushed through that sell wall, at least at the first try. This is why it was such a high probability trade. I didn't have limit orders set there, I waited for the reaction, and entered when we SFPd the ATH.

[Davino]

15 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Are you against investing in crypto?

I am against investing in crypto. Have you ever invested in the euro €? or in the dollar $ ?

Or do you use them as money because it is easier than bartering?

Cryptocoins are inevitably the money of the future and it can't be otherwise. This is obvious to anyone with a tech background and a bit of economic vision. Is it still cooking? Surely... give it some decades or centuries but it will be the case, no doubt about it.

[Leo Gura]

16 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Are you against investing in crypto?

Mostly against, as it is speculation.

I have an investment in Bitcoin. But my financial sitauation is different than most of you. If you don't have lots of extra money then I would not place it in crypto. Stocks are a much better investment.

Edited March 7 by Leo Gura

[Unlimited]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mostly against, as it is speculation.

I have an investment in Bitcoin. But my financial sitauation is different than most of you. If you don't have lots of extra money then I would not place it in crypto. Stocks are a much better investment.

I agree with you that it is all speculation.
Although this year it was pretty obvious that Bitcoin and Altcoins will go up.

If you don't have a lot of money it is not the best to invest in crypto.
I know some people tho that went from $10k to 7 figures this year just with memecoins but this is of course very risky and you also need to be kinda lucky to buy to the right time.

In the end everything is kind of a scam anyways and the only reason why some people win is because many people lose.

[Dodo]

5 hours ago, josemar said:

If you have less than $10k to trade, I'd recommend working your normal job until you can afford it.

It's not impossible to turn small amounts into millions, but it is much riskier, since you're not using proper risk management.

Market makers liquidate tens of millions $ positions daily, I don't think my 100k makes much of a difference. That's how they make their money, by liquidating people. You learn how the market makers think by learning to trade (in the proper groups, not everybody with a youtube channel and a course to sell is good), and don't have to rely on 1 or 2 lucky entries.

At the ATH, there is a special level - because like I said, lots more people had their sell orders there, so even market makers probably couldn't have pushed through that sell wall, at least at the first try. This is why it was such a high probability trade. I didn't have limit orders set there, I waited for the reaction, and entered when we SFPd the ATH.

Yea bro thanks for the recommendation, but that means i will miss out the bull run i predicted, so no thanks. 

I will try my best to destroy the bears and play with the market maker, i know a few of their tricks and how to spot them and their direction. 

Ive destroyed one or 2 bears along the way, meaning their money got transferred to me. Big time. Not one time. Im still in the game.

I do infact have decent risk management, in that my risk to reward is nutty, the possible reward massively outways the risk and I open my positions when they actually have a great chance to survive even on high leverage. Thats why I made bigger percent gain than you so far, it wasnt blind luck, all I have to say. 

Edited March 7 by Dodo

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Unlimited said:

Although this year it was pretty obvious that Bitcoin and Altcoins will go up.

No it wasn't.

[Unlimited]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No it wasn't.

Why not?

Many people told me last year that this year everything will go up.
The market always acted in cycles and also the halving is coming soon.

In my opinion it was clear that sooner or later everything will go up.

Edited March 8 by Unlimited

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, Unlimited said:

Many people told me last year that this year everything will go up.

This is just hindsight bias.

Many people were predicting a recession and market collapse.

When you guys are accidently right, you act as though you knew the market. And then one day the market will wipe you out. Because you're not actually predicting anything, you are reading tea leaves and BSing yourselves.

Edited March 8 by Leo Gura

[Unlimited]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This is just hindsight bias.

Many people were predicting a recession and market collapse.

When you guys are accidently right, you act as though you knew the market. And then one day the market will wipe you out. Because you're not actually predicting anything, you are reading tea leaves and BSing yourselves.

I get what you are trying to say.

[Emerald]

My view on this is that it's wisest to make money only off of things that provide real value to society at that is what money/wealth is meant to be a symbol of.

And trading Crypto back and forth is mostly just pushing numbers back and forth and playing a game that doesn't really lead to any value-based outcomes.