Respectfully disagreeing with Leo about Crypto

[josemar]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It may be valuable. But you did nothing to create that value. You are a value-parasite in this case.

By the same logic, people that invested in Google in the 2000's or Tesla in 2019-2020 did nothing to create their value. Still, the stock value increased many times fold. In the same vein, Bitcoin offers such a different technology to what has come before, that 'early adopters' will be rewarded. And I'm not talking about the buyers in 2012-2016, many have already sold their bitcoin, or lost the keys to it. Everybody gets their bitcoin at the price they deserve. You can wait to buy at 120k, that is what you deserve . Still a good investment, since it'll probably be 1 mil in 10 years time.

The people who invest in indices like S&P 500 or Nasdaq are the people that cannot identify  companies that will outperform those indices over many years. That's cool, but returns from indices barely cover inflation.

I think most crypto, with the exception of Bitcoin is a security, only Bitcoin is a commodity like gold, oil etc. Only Bitcoin passes the Howey test for not being a security. Being securities, Most crypto will have to file all kinds of disclosure documents with the SEC, which will cut some of their hype. There is still value in them, just maybe not what the market currently thinks.

[FourCrossedWands]

Leo is right and you guys should stop promoting Bitcoin like if anyone who doesn't buy it will be doomed in 10 years.

[josemar]

4 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Leo is right and you guys should stop promoting Bitcoin like if anyone who doesn't buy it will be doomed in 10 years.

Leo can afford to not invest in Bitcoin. Can you? 

Not doomed. just poorer.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, josemar said:

By the same logic, people that invested in Google in the 2000's or Tesla in 2019-2020 did nothing to create their value.

That's right. The value was created by the employees of those companies, not you.

[something_else]

6 hours ago, Dodo said:

Who told you I am a beginner?

Did you not say somewhere you’ve only made 3k?

My main point was just that the energy you give off here is very similar to the energy I’ve seen from gamblers and people in doomed-to-fail get rich quick schemes 

 

[josemar]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's right. The value was created by the employees of those companies, not you.

Sure, but you don't classify investing in stocks as gambling.

It's akin to doing research, and finding a revolutionary technology that is in its beginning stages of adoption, and investing in it how you see fit. Like buying stocks in the company if that avenue is available, or hodling bitcoin.

Because bitcoin is so new, relatively speaking, most people are reticent. Which is fine, but speaking out of ignorance with such conviction about how it's doomed to fail or investing in it is gambling after watching 1 clickbait video on youtube... you get it at the price you deserve

Maybe the Bitcoin ETFs being approved next year (possibly in 2 weeks' time) will convince you (it will surely bring billions of $$ into the space), once Blackrock and other TradFi heavyweights give you the green light that it's alright to invest in it. Hint: the higher the price, and the market cap, the more tradfi institutions will start investing in it.

Or maybe 2025 will convince you, when central banks will be allowed to hold bitcoin on their balance sheets. You didn't like it at 16k earlier this year? you  don't like it at 43k now? you'll probably lap it up at 120k in Fall 2025 or 500k+ in 2029...

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

Did you not say somewhere you’ve only made 3k?

My main point was just that the energy you give off here is very similar to the energy I’ve seen from gamblers and people in doomed-to-fail get rich quick schemes 

 

Ive made 3k from a 200 dollar trade that i waited a year to make. I am not a rich guy, but my skills here are my ticket. I am awake. 

The market was not in a condition for me to make money until recently. Before that I was still learning and the past bull run I was just backing the wrong altcoin- xrp. But I did call the last bull run for btc too, from 3k, 200 moving average bottom.

I was a complete noob back then but still knew some things that work, and 200ma was an amazing buy opportunity. I did not even touch leverage back then, now I am a new breed. 

I am not a daytrader and I do not short, so the market only recently flipped to the conditions needed for me to take a long trade.

No problem, you're getting these vibes from me and ignoring the hard evidence I provide in chart format. I can sound like an oompa loompa, if i give you the correct mathematical solution, you have to give up and admit defeat. 

Edited December 25, 2023 by Dodo

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, josemar said:

Sure, but you don't classify investing in stocks as gambling.

I do, unless you're doing long term investing.

Many of you here are not really investing, you are trading. You are trying to buy low and sell high, over and over again.

Edited December 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I do, unless you're doing long term investing.

Many of you here are not really investing, you are trading. You are trying to buy low and sell high, over and over again.

Buying low and selling high would happen even in long-term investing, right? 

[FourCrossedWands]

2 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Buying low and selling high would happen even in long-term investing, right? 

Yes, but you don't have to spend your life watching charts and praying for the best.

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Yes, but you don't have to spend your life watching charts and praying for the best.

If you dont analyse the chart you will just make uninformed decisions. Whats wrong with an informed decision? 

Just yolo buy at any price and hodl? Thats the gambling. You end up holding through entire predictable bear market and call it sophisticated investment. Gve me a break!

[FourCrossedWands]

17 minutes ago, Dodo said:

If you dont analyse the chart you will just make uninformed decisions. Whats wrong with an informed decision? 

Just yolo buy at any price and hodl? Thats the gambling. You end up holding through entire predictable bear market and call it sophisticated investment. Gve me a break!

 

[Dodo]

59 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

 

Im not talking about stocks which are artificially held higher. Those will get their deserts when the recession comes around, and crypto will be the safe haven with a healthy market structure. 

Im talking about crypto and its mathematical nature, on manipulated stocks they will halt trading and pull levers, plunge protection teams to protect their fat cats. Its a freak show and it will end badly. 

The dumps are just as needed as the pumps for a healthy market. McDonald's is overbought af. That market i will not invest in. 

If btc never dropped to 16k and complete its bearish pattern target, i would be calling it a scam brother, because it did not play the perfect technical move that was suggested by the chart.

 

In stocks I cant trust the chart because they will close the market they wll not let you buy lower, they will halt trading under pretence of protecting investors. They are protecting only the fat cats and those who dont have a brain of their own to read the chart and screwing over those who do read it. I dont touch stocks for this reason. Absolute scam  if you ask me. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Dodo

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, FourCrossedWands said:

 

How about dont listen to me, but to Warren Buffet. His most famous saying : buy when there's blood in the streets. Your last chance to buy on that advice was 2004 2005 judging by the chart. After that it gave no chance to buy blood. If you are buying it now, you are buying the opposite of blood, and are not doing what the legendary investor Warren Buffet advises. 

On crypto there was just recently blood, and predictable one too. Absolutely perfect Warren Buffet style buy. 

What you're essentially telling me is to buy and pray with no strategy whatsoever at any price, while you claim that what im doing is watch chart and pray. I dont have to pray, its maths.

If i buy mcdonalds and make profit, those who bought at the right time in 2004 2005 will be compounding while I make 1 dollar dude. 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Dodo

[jimwell]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:18 PM, Leo Gura said:

I'm not making a moral case against you, but rather a business case. Doing business that is not grounded in providing massive value to people is just bad business and leads to more failure than not.

Yes, that's generally true, and it's suitable if you're in your 20s. But there are situations when you can't wait 10 years to generate the profit you need to escape wage slavery. Unfortunately, my situation is one of those.

 

On 12/24/2023 at 11:18 PM, Leo Gura said:

If you are stuck in a bad place, doing solid business is all the more important because you can't afford to screw around with flimsy money schemes.

All the money you made trading you could lose tomorrow. So be careful.

The problem with corruption is that it often leads to failure.

I could lose all or almost all my money via day trading. But I could also gain massive profits in a very short time. I need and want to escape wage slavery as soon as possible.

Just look at this risk-taking Japanese guy in the video.

 

[FourCrossedWands]

A shiny sports car and millions of dollars will never make you happy. In fact it will make you miserable.

[Dodo]

26 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

A shiny sports car and millions of dollars will never make you happy. In fact it will make you miserable.

whether you do meditation in sports car or in a room, it dont matter, why would it make him miserable

[josemar]

On 14/12/2023 at 11:54 AM, josemar said:

That's what hodling bitcoin is for. Not to be crass, but to give you a concrete example, I "made" 110k USD since March 2023 doing just that.

Then, there's trading, like anything that has price going up and down, it can be traded for gains, just like trading gold, stocks, indices, oil etc. Why is trading bitcoin gambling, but trading the other categories not gambling? If anything, due to the 4 year halving cycle, the bitcoin price can be more predictable than other things.

3.5 weeks later, 156k in profit only holding bitcoin.

Wanna bet how much it's going to be worth Aug-Nov 2025?

[Leo Gura]

On 1/9/2024 at 5:59 AM, josemar said:

Wanna bet how much it's going to be worth Aug-Nov 2025?

No.

Cause betting is for fools.

[jimwell]

Cryptocurrency is probably not worth investing in long term. I won’t even do day trading with it.