Respectfully disagreeing with Leo about Crypto

[Francis777]

Have you actually made any genuine sum of money investing in crypto? @Leo Gura

[josemar]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

What you guys are doing is gambling, not investing, and eventually you'll end up losing your pants.

A proper investment is something you buy and hold for 5-10 years.

If you don't believe in a coin enough to hold it for 10 years, you shouldn't be buying it.

That's what hodling bitcoin is for. Not to be crass, but to give you a concrete example, I "made" 110k USD since March 2023 doing just that.

Then, there's trading, like anything that has price going up and down, it can be traded for gains, just like trading gold, stocks, indices, oil etc. Why is trading bitcoin gambling, but trading the other categories not gambling? If anything, due to the 4 year halving cycle, the bitcoin price can be more predictable than other things.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Francis777 said:

Have you actually made any genuine sum of money investing in crypto? @Leo Gura

No

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Dodo said:

Here is the projection, just market cycles 

This is gambling, not investing.

[Francis777]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No

Well then is it not accurate that maybe you don’t understand how the nature of crypto can allow for strategies using much shorter term investments? - In regard to your comment about not buying coins unless you would keep them for 5-10 years.

Surely such strategies would require nuanced understanding from people that have actually been consistently successful with crypto before giving advice the advice that all short term in crypto is just gambling?

I’m not inferring on what people are doing with crypto on this thread btw, just your comment.

[Dodo]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is gambling, not investing.

Investing is gambling too. 5-10 years from now the potential quantum computer could crack the encryption and crypto could go to 0. If my method gets me some profit in the bag, I dont see a problem. 

Crossing the street is gambling - your reward  is getting to the other side, your risk a car can run you over. But with the right strategy you will cross the road successfully. If you dont know the risks and go to cross the street blindly, you would be in trouble.

Yes what im doing can better be categorised as swing trading, not investing. Both swing trading and investing are gambling, however. 

I can bet that your bitcoin position, allegedly you have one, is a bigger gamble than my ada position, because you have a bigger capital to play with. I am here to make it to where you are. You are already there, you dont need to take the opportunities I need to take. Basically, you have something to lose, I dont. I am already a bottom feeder. 

Right now I have open a risk free trade with potential of insane rewards. I have passed the gamble zone, my position is now the casino. From now on I can only win money, or lose profit, not my own money - if this is gambling sign me up. 

Up to now my position has grown 1700٪ in 3 months thanks to correct analysis, and if something crazy happens, i exit my position at 0 percent / break even, or if i wish i can even set to exit in profit. I dont see the gamble in that. I have a job and dont rely on this position for my survival, I can let it run.   

I planted a seed,and now im going to let it grow and when it gives fruit i will harvest them before they go bad. That's what im doing. All im risking is losing the tiny seed i entered, while what I stand to win is a massive apple tree that will keep on giving, if I have the patience and water it well.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Dodo

[FourCrossedWands]

Time is your biggest investment here.

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Francis777 said:

Well then is it not accurate that maybe you don’t understand how the nature of crypto can allow for strategies using much shorter term investments? - In regard to your comment about not buying coins unless you would keep them for 5-10 years.

The crypto trading done in this thread is no different than daytrading. I am well aware of how daytrading works. It is gambling. Just because some people make some money at it doesn't change the fact that it's foolish and dangerous gambling.

This kind of gambling has been going on on Wall Street for over 100 years. Nothing new here. Except crypto is even more dangerous because it is an unregulated security and has zero inherent value, unlike a company.

Nobody knows what any crypto is actually worth. Anyone who tells you they do is self-deceived.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Juan]

I used to make NFT Art and I was involved in Twitter spaces about the subject. They y’all focused too much on “this is the future!”, “this is only the beginning!” and all that rambling and nothing TO THIS DAY I’ve seen something of substance or results out of that. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Juan

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Time is your biggest investment here.

Are you talking to me? I invest more time in writing on this forum than in the trade. The trade goes on in the background no matter what I do now. I can play games all day or go to work, which I am doing. No time wasted. 

[Rabentola]

Day trading requires a lot of skill and risk management. Its hard to recommend somebody to day trading. But investing in Crypto I would recommend. Crypto is indeed volatile. But so was investing during the dot-com bubble. Imagine people talking negatively about the internet back then. The same thing is happening with crypto right now.

[Dodo]

59 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The crypto trading done in this thread is no different than daytrading. I am well aware of how daytrading works. It is gambling. Just because some people make some money at it doesn't change the fact that it's foolish and dangerous gambling.

This kind of gambling has been going on on Wall Street for over 100 years. Nothing new here. Except crypto is even more dangerous because it is an unregulated security and has zero inherent value, unlike a company.

Nobody knows what any crypto is actually worth. Anyone who tells you they do is self-deceived.

Thats the same for anything. 

What is gold worth? Its worth what the price is. If we find a planet full of gold, its price will plummet, yet its the same thing. So in reality gold's price is highly subjective and dependent on supply and demand. Its the SAME with crypto and anything else.

I can tell you what any crypto is actually worth- its worth the current market price. And when that changes, the new price is what its worth. Its the same with tesla stock, its the same with gold, same with silver, same with anything. 

And no, Leo, you cant say anything other than what you're doing is daytrading. That's incredibly close minded to say. Daytrading means you trade day by day and take profits/losses every day. I am taking a trade that I am looking to hold for 2 years. That's no daytrade, come on! Which daytrader opens a trade in 2023 and closes (half of it) in 2025? 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Dodo

[Leo Gura]

25 minutes ago, Dodo said:

Thats the same for anything. 

What is gold worth? Its worth what the price is.

No! These are very different.

Companies and gold have something tangible behind them. Crypto does not. Gold is an inherently useful material and it has been valuable for 5000 years.

And anyway, if you were daytrading gold I would also call that foolish. You have no idea what gold will be worth in 2 years.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura @Dodo

On 22.11.2023 at 6:03 PM, Dodo said:

Do you know how many jobs crypto created? Just see how many programmers there are on Ethereum alone.

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Dodo

Leo you were once a bitcoin fan and now you dont invest in it. Dont you believe in the future of bitcoin? 

Bitcoin has it's value in it's network effect. 

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Leo Gura @Dodo

Leo you were once a bitcoin fan

I was never a Bitcoin fan.

Quote

and now you dont invest in it. Dont you believe in the future of bitcoin?

I have some long-term investments in Bitcoin to balance out my portfolio and hedge against hyper inflation. I don't trade it.

Quote

Bitcoin has it's value in it's network effect. 

It's anyone's guess what that value will be in 2 years.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Dodo]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No! These are very different.

Companies and gold have something tangible behind them. Crypto does not. Gold is an inherently useful material and it has been valuable for 5000 years.

And anyway, if you were daytrading gold I would also call that foolish. You have no idea what gold will be worth in 2 years.

As guys that "dabble" in the spiritual, i am surprised you take the boomer stance of "if you cant see it it aint there". Tangible? I thought even brain doesnt exist, but gold does? 

Crypto is like 13 years old. Gold has been valuable for 5000 years? Well crypto and blockchain has been valuable for 13 years.

Building dapps, exchanging money quickly and cheaply cross borders,  servicing a specific task, crypto is at work as we speak and some predict by 2030 we will have the internet of things and blockchain will play a key role there. 

Imagine Gold was 13 year old discovery. There is not the 5000 year argument, yet i would argue if it was only 13 yr old it is infinitely a better investment - less people know about it, its not fully understood yet, you have the chance to get in early. The boomers will be advising you to stick to rocks, because those have stood the test of time and you dont know if this new Gold discovery is even worth it, maybe it melts

 

[Leo Gura]

@Dodo Your shitcoins have the shelf-life of a Furby.

[Dodo]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@Dodo Your shitcoins have the shelf-life of a Furby.

Hehe, but furbies are not decentralised 🤔 

[FourCrossedWands]

This discussion is getting ridiculous. Would you rather own all cryptocurencies or McDonald's, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Starbucks, and Walmart all combined. Both have market cap of around 1,5T dollars.

[Dodo]

2 hours ago, FourCrossedWands said:

This discussion is getting ridiculous. Would you rather own all cryptocurencies or McDonald's, Coca Cola, Pepsi, Starbucks, and Walmart all combined. Both have market cap of around 1,5T dollars.

Absolutely and is what I'm doing and I stand by my decisions, I prefer crypto to stocks. Sue me (dont)