Respectfully disagreeing with Leo about Crypto

[josemar]

14 minutes ago, flowboy said:

You guys do realize that the only reason these "assets" can be traded, even though most of them have no legitimate companies behind them, with profits that don't come from selling their self-created virtual coin, is because they created their own exchange which is currently a free-for-all for anyone who can tell a half decent story?

These companies behind most of these altcoins are not qualified to be listed on a regular stock exchange.

Because stock exchanges have standards.

You're buying penny stocks.

It's like no one here watched Wolf Of Wall Street or learnt anything from it.

Even if these charts follow predictable patterns, there's still no legit companies with actual profits behind them (not factoring in the money from selling their self-created coin to naive dreamers), so at some point the house of cards is going to come crashing down.

 

There is some financial innovation being made based on blockchains, which of course would replace some or all services offered by traditional banks, so they are not taking it lying down.

Then, there's bitcoin ... Penny stocks for 35k+ a piece? 

Not sure what you mean by crypto companies creating their own exchanges... Crypto exchanges are trading all/most crypto.

In saying that, most altcoins based on the Howey test should be classified as  securities, so much more regulation would be needed. Bitcoin is a commodity based on the Howey test, just like gold, oil etc. Whether the political environment will tend to more or less regulation, remains to be seen.

For exposure to crypto on the traditional stock exchanges, there is MSTR (Microstrategy) that has around 150k bitcoin, or more volatile and riskier bitcoin miners like RIOT, MARA, HIVE etc.

Ps. I hope bitcoin gets one more pullback to 25k before the next bullrun 🤞🏾

Edited November 22, 2023 by josemar

[flowboy]

12 minutes ago, josemar said:

There is some financial inovation being made based on blockchains, which of course would replace some or all services offered by traditional banks, so they are not taking it lying down.

Then, there's bitcoin ... Penny stocks for 35k+ a piece? 

I'm not including bitcoin in what I said.

It has been adopted as a common payment method, so there's value in it now.

The rest of the coins is just based on hopes and dreams and good storytelling. No critical mass reached, no evidence for widespread adoption, no profitability, no value.

Just a vehicle for suckers and gamblers who would in a different time put all their money on red in Roulette, or buy Aerotyne.

12 minutes ago, josemar said:

Not sure what you mean by crypto companies creating their own exchanges... Crypto exchanges are trading all/most crypto.

I'm referring to the fact that crypto exchanges have no standards or regulations, so anyone who can create an altcoin and a half decent website with some visionary sounding technical mumbo jumbo can put their crap on there, and collect sucker money.

No earnings need to be reported, there's no government body scrutinizing them.

One has to ask oneself, if these altcoin companies were half decent, why are angel investors, VC's and private equity companies not buying into them?

Because they're the equivalent of a PowerPoint with a buy button. Nothing behind it.

Their charts are only going up sometimes because some rich people have gambling addictions just like the rest of us.

Edited November 22, 2023 by flowboy

[josemar]

7 minutes ago, flowboy said:

The rest of the coins is just based on hopes and dreams and good storytelling. No critical mass reached, no evidence for widespread adoption, no profitability, no value.

Sure, but by the time widespread adoption is here, the profits would be much less. Early adopters get much more gains. Will there be turkeys in the early adopter phase? Yes.

 

9 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I'm referring to the fact that crypto exchanges have no standards, so anyone who can create an altcoin and a half decent website with some visionary sounding technical mumbo jumbo can put their crap on there, and collect sucker money.

Yep, exit liquidity has to come from somewhere 

Kidding, I'm only dealing with / trading bitcoin myself.

[flowboy]

9 minutes ago, josemar said:

Sure, but by the time widespread adoption is here, the profits would be much less. Early adopters get much more gains. Will there be turkeys in the early adopter phase? Yes.

Circular reasoning.

But if it were true, then the early adopters would be right.

You can buy into anything with that rationale.

I've got some dog poop I can sell them. Got a really cool website about how it could be used for payments in the future. Maybe.

This is what I'll put on the landing page:

Quote

Introducing a revolutionary concept: DoggieCoin – the future of payments powered by the unexpected yet invaluable resource, dog poop! In a world where innovation knows no bounds, DoggieCoin takes the lead in sustainable, eco-friendly, and downright unique financial transactions.

🌱 **Green and Sustainable:** DoggieCoin embraces the green revolution by turning an everyday inconvenience into an eco-friendly solution. With an ever-growing pet population, we can harness the power of dog waste to create a renewable resource that benefits both the environment and your wallet.

💰 **Economic Benefits:** DoggieCoin is not just about being environmentally conscious; it's also a sound financial investment. As the demand for sustainable solutions rises, the value of DoggieCoin will follow suit. Get ahead of the curve and invest in a currency that not only holds its value but contributes to a cleaner planet.

🐾 **Community Engagement:** Imagine a community brought together by a shared commitment to cleaner streets and a healthier environment. DoggieCoin fosters a sense of responsibility among pet owners, encouraging everyone to actively participate in waste management while simultaneously earning a currency that powers local economies.

🛍️ **Retail Integration:** DoggieCoin is not just a concept; it's a practical solution for everyday transactions. Participating retailers and service providers are already gearing up to accept DoggieCoin as a legitimate form of payment. Join the movement, and experience the convenience of using a currency that aligns with your values.

🚀 **Cutting-Edge Technology:** Behind DoggieCoin is a cutting-edge blockchain infrastructure that ensures secure, transparent, and efficient transactions. Say goodbye to traditional payment methods and embrace the future of finance with a cryptocurrency that's as innovative as it is eco-friendly.

🌍 **Global Impact:** DoggieCoin isn't just limited to your local community; it has the potential to make a global impact. As more and more regions adopt this revolutionary currency, we collectively contribute to a cleaner planet and a brighter future for generations to come.

Join us on this exciting journey towards a greener, more sustainable future. DoggieCoin isn't just a currency; it's a movement, a lifestyle, and a commitment to a cleaner, healthier planet. Invest in the future – the DoggieCoin future!

 

(source: ChatGPT)

Now to actually create the coin.

The technology of course has to be real, that's how we know it's legit.

Oh, wait...

Quote

Creating a token that uses an existing blockchain can require some technical expertise, but anyone with moderate computer knowledge can probably create their own token without too much difficulty. Let’s run through the basic steps to create a new token on an existing blockchain platform:

Choose the blockchain platform: Your first step is to decide which blockchain should host your token. You have many options, with the Ethereum platform and Binance Smart Chain being among the most popular.

Create the token: The process required to create your token varies based on how much you wish to customize the token. Creating a highly customized token generally requires advanced technical knowledge, but free online tools such as WalletBuilders can facilitate the token-creating process in just a few clicks.

Mint your new cryptocurrency: After creating the cryptocurrency, you are ready to mint the new tokens. Using a trusted platform like Binance Smart Chain or Ethereum means that you may not need the services of a professional auditor or lawyer before issuing a batch of tokens.

 

(source: https://www.investopedia.com/how-to-make-a-cryptocurrency-5215343)

Guess I'm about to be a DoggieCoin millionaire

Thanks for your belief in the future, early adopters! You are so smart!

Edited November 22, 2023 by flowboy

[flowboy]

13 minutes ago, josemar said:

Yep, exit liquidity has to come from somewhere 

Kidding, I'm only dealing with / trading bitcoin myself.

Hehehe.

Smart guy.

[FourCrossedWands]

Wow, the doggie poop coin sounds nice. I'm all in! 💩

[josemar]

12 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Circular reasoning.

But if it were true, then the early adopters would be right.

You can buy into anything with that rationale.

I've got some dog poop I can sell them. Got a really cool website about how it could be used for payments in the future. Maybe.

This is what I'll put on the landing page:

Now to actually create the coin.

The technology of course has to be real, that's how we know it's legit.

Oh, wait...

Guess I'm about to be a DoggieCoin millionaire

Thanks for your belief in the future, early adopters! You are so smart!

I actually agree with you for 99.9% of all crypto tokens.

But, outside of bitcoin, there are 2-3 that might be worth an investment for the next bullrun. 

And they are SOL, RNDR and INJ. They will be riskier than bitcoin, but the returns are greater. Only spend money you can afford to lose.

Do your own research etc etc.

 

[josemar]

 

2 minutes ago, josemar said:

I actually agree with you for 99.9% of all crypto tokens.

But, outside of bitcoin, there are 2-3 that might be worth an investment for the next bullrun. 

And they are SOL, RNDR and INJ. They will be riskier than bitcoin, but the returns are greater. Only spend money you can afford to lose.

Do your own research etc etc.

 

Some say ETH as well, personally I don't like Vitalik Buterin, he might be brilliant, but my gambling money won't go to ETH

[FourCrossedWands]

1 minute ago, josemar said:

 

Some say ETH as well, personally I don't like Vitalik Buterin, he might be brilliant, but my gambling money won't go to ETH

Have you ever consider you have a gambling addiction?

[josemar]

 

6 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Have you ever consider you have a gambling addiction?

Not gambling, when you make profit in  85% of the trades, based on technical analysis.

If you have the correct psychology and risk management, you shouldn't lose more than 1% per losing trade. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by josemar

[FourCrossedWands]

21 minutes ago, josemar said:

 

Not gambling, when you make profit in  85% of the trades, based on technical analysis.

If you have the correct psychology and risk management, you shouldn't lose more than 1% per losing trade. 

Impressive. I agree that's it's possible if you have the discipline. Just be careful to not lose all your money.

Is there any reason you chose crypto specifically for this?

[josemar]

 

13 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Impressive. I agree that's it's possible if you have the discipline. Just be careful to not lose all your money.

Is there any reason you chose crypto specifically for this?

More volatility = more $$$

[josemar]

 

18 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Just be careful to not lose all your money.

Trading 101, risk management

18 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

I agree that's it's possible if you have the discipline

It's not even difficult, it's more fun than my 9 to 5 job, new information, new things to learn...

 

[FourCrossedWands]

It's nice that you can make money and have fun. However, it still doesn't change the fact that charts don't bring any value to crypto itself.

People say that cryptocurencies have value based on the charts. The only reason why they invest in crypto is because the charts say so. There are (almost) zero fundamentals behind crypto.

[Dodo]

3 hours ago, FourCrossedWands said:

It's nice that you can make money and have fun. However, it still doesn't change the fact that charts don't bring any value to crypto itself.

People say that cryptocurencies have value based on the charts. The only reason why they invest in crypto is because the charts say so. There are (almost) zero fundamentals behind crypto.

People dont say that, I say that as my main skill is technical analysis. Fundamentally crypto is insanely strong.  You sound like the guys on the news that were joking about the email or internet when it was first introduced. 

[FourCrossedWands]

19 minutes ago, Dodo said:

You sound like the guys on the news that were joking about the email or internet when it was first introduced. 

Internet became very useful within the first couple of years it went public. How long has crypto been around?

I have just checked my Wise app (currency exchange) and guess what? There's no cryptocurrency offered for exchange. Checked my PayPal app, can't find any crypto there. Nothing in my internet banking and stock investment app either. I can't even buy any crypto if I don't want to risk sending money to some crypto exchange.

[Dodo]

6 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Internet became very useful within the first couple of years it went public. How long has crypto been around?

I have just checked my Wise app (currency exchange) and guess what? There's no cryptocurrency offered for exchange. Checked my PayPal app, can't find any crypto there. Nothing in my internet banking and stock investment app either. I can't even buy any crypto if I don't want to risk sending money to some crypto exchange.

Have you tried Wirex or Revolut?

Crypto is in fact useful and used as we speak. Mainstream adoption has not happened yet and they are in process of regulating this wild west. 

An investor should LIKE that its not mainstream yet. 

Do you know how many jobs crypto created? Just see how many programmers there are on Ethereum alone.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Dodo

[FourCrossedWands]

Revolut offers crypto, but Wirex seems like just another crypto exchange. Ethereum seems like the only crypto that has some potential, but it is still extremely niche product. 99% of people will never use it.

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Revolut offers crypto, but Wirex seems like just another crypto exchange. Ethereum seems like the only crypto that has some potential, but it is still extremely niche product. 99% of people will never use it.

Oook! Sounds like you have your own stick figure idea of crypto if thats the case! You have a lot more to learn about the space and then we talk

[Leo Gura]

The key is not to fool yourself into thinking that you know what these coins will do in the future. Much of crypto investment is based on self-deception. The deception that you know what is gonna happen in the future. The truth is that you do not know, no one knows, and you are just guessing. You could guess right but most likely you will guess wrong.

I see many crypto people decieve themselves that they are doing something more than guessing. That is what makes this so dangerous and unsound as an investment. With crypto you are engaging in wild speculation but you rationalize it to yourself as something more than that.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Leo Gura