Respectfully disagreeing with Leo about Crypto

[Dodo]

The thread is old and it advised starting a new one rather than reviving it. 

 

Leo said that only bitcoin is perhaps worth it and even that is a gamble. He put all other coins under th bus, and that is my main disagreement. 

Bitcoin with its first mover advantage has obviously eaten up the most marketcap out of all, and is considered the main store of value, resembling digital gold. However, there are so many different types of crypto that are designed to do different things, solve problems that old and slow bitcoin cannot solve. 

In any of those new types of cryptos there are first movers as well. Ethereum is the first mover of smart chain blockchain solutions and it is quickly catching up to bitcoin as the two of them are by far the biggest by marketcap. You can build dapps and smart contracts on the ethereum network which you can't do on bitcoin. 

There are other types of blockchain such as Oracles, the first mover there is Link and it is seeing some intense gains recently. I am investing currently in Cardano, which is a smart chain like Ethereum and plans to build their own oracle, rather than using others. 

There are payment blockchains, the ones that are best used for money transfers - they are quick and cheap to transfer, unlike Bitcoin, that would be a horrible idea for money transfers. XRP is the main leader there.

There are other types but lets keep it shorter. My point is, bitcoin is bitcoin, but the rest of the market is very intriguing and in my opinion worth the research and eventual investment in the long term. 

 

The other point Leo said was not to mix art with investing, but as a guy who has been learning technical analysis for a long time, I can see the chart and patterns within it as art, a mathematical kind of art. The numbers are dancing and if you have an eye for what painting to look at and know how the patterns created behave, you can enjoy some really high reward-low risk setups which someone who doesnt look at chart will miss. 

Another common similarty between art and charts is that charts are using fibonacci, the golden ratio, which is the same ratio used in the Mona Lisa itself, used by many famous artists, as it makes things more beautiful. The golden ratio is found everywhere in nature too, so by seeing the charts following the golden ratio is to see they are perhaps a natural phenomenon rather than a man made scam manipulated and controlled by scheming individuals who want your money. 

 

In conclusion, cryptocurrency is not a scam, it behaves very technically accurate on the charts. It is there to solve a miriad of problems and there are more options than the one Bitcoin to research and invest in. Altcoins are all forms of different vehicles designed for different purpose and without them, crypto is just not useful at all. 

[FourCrossedWands]

Sarcasm?

[Dodo]

@FourCrossedWands Explain 

[FourCrossedWands]

Comparing crypto to art? Come on...

[Dodo]

26 minutes ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Comparing crypto to art? Come on...

Come on? Which of the 2 points you disagree with - pattern recognition or fibonacci? Or both? Not crypto, charts in general. Did you read or just skim

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dodo

[FourCrossedWands]

Sorry I just read the part about charts and art. You have some good points, but charts are just charts, they don't bring any value to anything, not even crypto.

[Leo Gura]

My point about art was in reference to NFTs, which tried to combine art with crypto and it was a stupid disaster.

The chances that you will predict which one of the 100s of alt-coins will become truly useful and mainstream is so low that you're better of just gambling with your money in Vegas.

It is much wiser to invest your money in stocks, which represent companies which actually generate value and new useful technology.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Sorry I just read the part about charts and art. You have some good points, but charts are just charts, they don't bring any value to anything, not even crypto.

I've attached some charts which show Fibonacci in action and some "pattern" recognition, in this case a fractal formed eerily similar to price action before last massive bull run. Bears did not survive back then, I dont think they will this time too. The horizontal line in each case shows what happened after the analysis was posted. As a technical trader chart is all that gives value to crypto for me. I enter on the fibonacci retracement and have a low risk buy opportunity with insanely high reward. 

If the chart says buy I buy, if the chart says sell, I sell, you will need some experience in reading charts though, it doesn't actually tell you, you need to know what to look for. 

 

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My point about art was in reference to NFTs, which tried to combine art with crypto and it was a stupid disaster.

The chances that you will predict which one of the 100s of alt-coins will become truly useful and mainstream is so low that you're better of just gambling with your money in Vegas.

It is much wiser to invest your money in stocks, which represent companies which actually generate value and new useful technology.

Ok I guess I misunderstood the Art bit, but NFTs altho i wouldnt buy one ever, have a specific nieche of customers, I would not buy the Mona Lisa either. I am not an NFT fan myself. 

You don't need to predict which one, because you can research many, find any good projects and invest in those, you don't need to find THE best one, they all move in tandem most of the times anyway.

 

 

 

Below are examples of fibonacci and fractal buy signal, this is art to me  

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dodo

[FourCrossedWands]

Yes, charts are cool but there is just no value in them. You just cannot make money forever based on fibonacci golden ratio. Do you really think it is so easy? Don't you think you can use your time better? Learn a new skill or start a business etc.?

[Dabidoe]

I think a lot of nuance is lost to the "when moon" crowd of crypto. If you're looking for a slot machine then you rightfully should be mocked and derided. The 10,000 mutant douchebag apes are not what crypto art is all about. They are worthless as shitcoins and I completely agree you might as well buy stocks. They are a bastardized slot machines and any idiot who just throws in 5000$ into them hoping to get rich off the next idiot putting in 10000 deserve to lose money. It's a fucking nasty game and fuck all those pump and dump douchebags. 

@Leo Gura I will push back that actual NFT artists exist and provide value intrinsic to the technology platform that they are creating on.

There are real artists who put their heart and soul into creating art digitally and deserve to be respected and earn money just like anyone else. They are doing it on a new platform that allows them to make $ directly instead of money going to the platforms that control and exploit them.

The artists making unique digital artwork the same as any other artist chosing to mint their artwork on the blockchain providing a public  way to display and share artwork is not stupid. They are creating things that are of value to the world as same as any artist making something on paper.

What people don't understand is the digital artist has been brutally exploited by these centralized platforms. What's a way for an artist to make money besides putting out thousands of hours of free art on centralized platform like IG and hoping that someone might buy a fucking t-shirt and maybe make 10$ after dropshipping fees or hope that an overpriced gallery will pay attention them and take 50% of their prints.

Crypto has value but the whole community-social aspect is fucked. I don't know the realistic value of a token but the realistic value of currency isn't as real as people think either. It's a very dicey game to put $ into crypto because the entire valuation is socially derived and thus pegged to the idiotic pump and dumpers who bring in the masses who bring in the dollars.

I believe that crypto as a techonology platform has value but beyond that the price of a token is up to the masses and that is a ridiculously complicated game where the biggest winners are those that cash in on the people looking to get rich who don't know what the fuck they're doing.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dabidoe

[Dodo]

1 hour ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Yes, charts are cool but there is just no value in them. You just cannot make money forever based on fibonacci golden ratio. Do you really think it is so easy? Don't you think you can use your time better? Learn a new skill or start a business etc.?

I do not think it's easy, but you have to be there and willing to risk losing when the time is right, because you know where to buy, thanks to Fibonacci. I have a special chart for you here on Bitcoin's recent bottom, yet another example of what I'm saying.

 

1 hour ago, Dabidoe said:

I think a lot of nuance is lost to the "when moon" crowd of crypto. If you're looking for a slot machine then you rightfully should be mocked and derided.

@Leo Gura I will push back that actual NFT artists exist and provide value intrinsic to the technology platform that they are creating on. The 10,000 mutant douchebag apes are not what crypto art is all about. They are worthless as shitcoins and I completely agree you might as well buy stocks. They are a bastardized slot machines and any idiot who just throws in 5000$ into them hoping to get rich off the next idiot putting in 10000 deserve to lose money. It's a fucking nasty game and fuck all those pump and dump douchebags. 

There are real artists who put their heart and soul into creating art digitally and deserve to be respected and earn money just like anyone else. They are doing it on a new platform that allows them to make $ directly instead of money going to the platforms that control and exploit them.

There are thousands of people who are making unique digital artwork the same as any other artist only they are doing so on a platform where they get paid for their digital creations. They are creating things that are of value to the world as same as any artist making something on paper.

What people don't understand is the digital artist has been brutally exploited by these centralized platforms. What's a way for an artist to make money besides putting out thousands of hours of free art on centralized platform like IG and hoping that someone might buy a fucking t-shirt and maybe make 10$ after dropshipping fees or hope that an overpriced gallery will pay attention them and take 50% of their prints.

Crypto has value but the whole community-social aspect is fucked. I don't know the realistic value of a token but the realistic value of currency isn't as real as people think either. It's a very dicey game to put $ into crypto because the entire valuation is socially derived and thus pegged to the idiotic pump and dumpers who bring in the masses who bring in the dollars.

I believe that crypto as a techonology platform has value but beyond that the price of a token is up to the masses and that is a ridiculously complicated game where the biggest winners are those that cash in on the people looking to get rich who don't know what the fuck they're doing.

If you put in 5k at this fibonacci retrace, you would by now more than doubled your investment... That's silly! How long you gotta wait on Gold for this? Stocks? SMH. The only scamming going on is those who are asleep scamming themselves

Edited November 21, 2023 by Dodo

[Dabidoe]

@Dodo I've seen the movie Pi, I get the whole fibonaci shit but realistically when you put $ down you're putting energy ($, time, power) into something. If I buy Ethereum it's because I believe in the idea that digital money can be put to work. If I buy Cardano it's because I believe that logic and governance and future governments could be founded with crypto currency.

If I buy whatever the fuck shit coin I have no idea who I am giving money to.

[ici]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My point about art was in reference to NFTs, which tried to combine art with crypto and it was a stupid disaster.

The chances that you will predict which one of the 100s of alt-coins will become truly useful and mainstream is so low that you're better of just gambling with your money in Vegas.

It is much wiser to invest your money in stocks, which represent companies which actually generate value and new useful technology.

Hi Leo,

Do you have any favourite resources (books/videos/sites) you could recommend when it comes to stocks?

I make trades but they are not backed by any research. Right now I just follow my gut feeling by looking at the charts and reading the news.

I would like to learn how to become a better trader, how to make better judgements, how to do research and understand if a company is undervalued or overvalued. I don't feel confident because I lack the knowledge and experience. It feels more like gambling to me at the moment and I don't want that to be the case.

If you were my mentor, where would you point me to?

[Twentyfirst]

You would be a fool not to invest in BTC. When to buy and when to sell is a different matter. Like Satoshi said "If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry."

[OBEler]

@Twentyfirst exactly. Btc wont go away. It's here to stay. In 5 to 10 years the prices will be probably x times higher. 

Btc has the best risk value ratio of everything. 

Edited November 22, 2023 by OBEler

[Twentyfirst]

14 minutes ago, OBEler said:

@Twentyfirst exactly. Btc wont go away. It's here to stay. In 5 to 10 years the prices will be probably x times higher. 

Btc has the best risk value ratio of everything. 

It's not even about making money. Its about freedom 

I would rather have BTC that is worth zero than millions in fiat. Seriously 

[FourCrossedWands]

There is a possible perfect financial system. Crypto backed by gold. It is possible some governments might actually start using it.

[josemar]

14 hours ago, FourCrossedWands said:

Yes, charts are cool but there is just no value in them. You just cannot make money forever based on fibonacci golden ratio. Do you really think it is so easy? Don't you think you can use your time better? Learn a new skill or start a business etc.?

Hahaha ignorance talking. So trading is just luck?

I quit my IT job of 25 years 2 months ago and do bitcoin trading full time. To replicate my 9 to 5 wage, I can trade 2 days a month.

Then there's the bull run 💎🐂.

Have fun being poor.

[flowboy]

You guys do realize that the only reason these "assets" can be traded, even though most of them have no legitimate companies behind them, with profits that don't come from selling their self-created virtual coin, is because they created their own exchange which is currently a free-for-all for anyone who can tell a half decent story?

These companies behind most of these altcoins are not qualified to be listed on a regular stock exchange.

Because stock exchanges have standards.

You're buying penny stocks.

It's like no one here watched Wolf Of Wall Street or learnt anything from it.

Even if these charts follow predictable patterns, there's still no legit companies with actual profits behind them (not factoring in the money from selling their self-created coin to naive dreamers), so at some point the house of cards is going to come crashing down.

The way history repeats itself is hilarious.

Edited November 22, 2023 by flowboy

[josemar]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My point about art was in reference to NFTs, which tried to combine art with crypto and it was a stupid disaster.

The chances that you will predict which one of the 100s of alt-coins will become truly useful and mainstream is so low that you're better of just gambling with your money in Vegas.

It is much wiser to invest your money in stocks, which represent companies which actually generate value and new useful technology.

How is  someone who invested in tech companies in the 2000-2001 dip and are now millionaires different from someone that invests early in the future of money (a revolutionary technology)? 

Are the former more entitled to becoming rich than the latter ?

And I'm solely talking about bitcoin, altcoins are for speculation, just like Vegas, but with some extra knowledge, and less based on luck.