Hamas-ISIS crimes against women

[Buck Edwards]

1 minute ago, Karmadhi said:

The IDF and Israeli government should also be cleansed by their racist animals like Ben Gavir and Netanyau. They are as toxic for Israel as Hamas is for Palestine. A war crime trial where they go to jail for life would be a good outcome from this.

The Israeli government is backed by powerful forces, you already know who. This will never happen. Israel has been given too much funding. Even Trump hasn't been indicted, forget Netanyahu. 

We live in the age of war now. Hold your bags tight. We never know what 2024 will look like. Maybe more wars throughout the world, more killings, more suffering, more madness. It's the end of the good times. Global economy is already a slump. And new cold wars to top it off. You never know what to expect. Just be grateful that this day is yours and you get to live. Bad times are ahead. The world is powerless in stopping wars. It's sad but we're on the brink of  major catastrophic events in coming years, probably 5-10 years from now. Before the storm comes the siren.

[Twentyfirst]

You do know that western women are statistically way more depressed than eastern women right? And that they are sexual objects?

[Jacob Morres]

@Twentyfirst a possibility, but also in a lot of places outside the West, people often don't really acknowledge mental illness. Like, even if someone's dealing with depression, it's kind of brushed off or delegitimized. It's like mental health just isn't seen as a real thing in many cultures (even the most developed eastern countries like korea + japan it's taboo and in the rest of the eastern world it's significantly worse)

this was actually common in america too. like the movement that made mental health issues socially acceptable here started like 15 years ago. id say that plays a big part in it, as people are much more open, honest and educated about it here

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[Twentyfirst]

38 minutes ago, Jacob Morres said:

@Twentyfirst a possibility, but also in a lot of places outside the West, people often don't really acknowledge mental illness. Like, even if someone's dealing with depression, it's kind of brushed off or delegitimized. It's like mental health just isn't seen as a real thing in many cultures (even the most developed eastern countries like korea + japan it's taboo and in the rest of the eastern world it's significantly worse)

this was actually common in america too. like the movement that made mental health issues socially acceptable here started like 15 years ago. id say that plays a big part in it, as people are much more open, honest and educated about it here

Theres a reason its called having first world problems 

[Vrubel]

8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

The IDF and Israeli government should also be cleansed by their racist animals like Ben Gavir and Netanyau. They are as toxic for Israel as Hamas is for Palestine. A war crime trial where they go to jail for life would be a good outcome from this.

Netanyahu on himself is a pretty reasonable and pragmatic guy, he is definitely a tier above guys like Erdogan, Bolsenaro and Trump. Though he viciously clings to power in toxic self-serving ways doing damage to the country. He has no qualms about going into coalition with a guy like Ben Gvir who is absolutely not fit for a role of responsibility. That's a problem. Though still there is nothing really unique about extremist parties in Western democracies. Every Western country has a least one party with fringe extreme right-wing views.
(In the Netherlands, we have a relatively popular party that supports Russia, is against vaccination en flirts with all kinds of crazy conspiracies.)
Netanyahu's poll numbers are now extremely low while Beny Gantz soars in popularity. Ben Gvir was already hated by much of the population but now lost even more credibility.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Vrubel

[AerisVahnEphelia]

11 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@AerisVahnEphelia

   I explained my views on Japan in this thread here a bit so I won't derail this thread:

   From what I know, Japan's government is much more conformist and collective orientated than the USA government. Culturally speaking it's a mix of hyper modern to ancient, which makes it interesting. Plus anime and manga too.

thanks I m gonna read it

[Nivsch]

10 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Gantz seems like a good and moderate option. I hope he wouldn't be eaten alive by the radicals though, they seem dangerous.

@Nivsch What SD stage Gantz is in your opinion? 

Yes he seems to me like the best option for the election that probably will come after the war I think I will vote to him.

Even when the two camps (liberal vs pro yariv levin's plan to reform the court) were fighting each other to hell, Gantz although was very liberal and anti the reform, still tried all the time to promote a communication with all the sides and thats why I think he is green but also slightly above.

After october 7th everything has changed and this internal fighting is an history. Our society has changed forever and I hope that to the better.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

11 hours ago, Buck Edwards said:

@Nivsch I hope you aren't offended by any of my takes. I respect everyone. 

Thanks its ok

[PurpleTree]

11 hours ago, Vrubel said:

For now, the only solution is cleansing Gaza of Hamas.
 

that just seems like an impossible goal without much much more “collateral damage” 

like another 25k kids or something 

[Vrubel]

1 hour ago, PurpleTree said:

that just seems like an impossible goal without much much more “collateral damage” 

like another 25k kids or something 

If hostages are not released many more will die, that much is obvious. I think Israel is doing pretty decent in this operation. The soldiers seem to be comfortable in Gaza, I even heard reports that they play soccer games and swim in the sea (against military discipline guidelines). May God protect those beautiful soldiers.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Vrubel

[Yimpa]

17 hours ago, Lila9 said:

That's wonderful what you say but can you elaborate on how it's related to the topic?

We tend to ignore or deny when our mind and body is in a constant alert state. By doing so, we severely limit our capacity towards holistic understanding and clarity. Our communication also becomes predominantly judgmental and biased.

Now imagine that almost everyone is doing this. This should give you an idea of why these issues never get resolved at a deep, fundamental level.

Constantly being in survival mode will not solve complex problem in the long-term, rather, it keeps us stuck in that cycle.

[zazen]

11 hours ago, Twentyfirst said:

Theres a reason its called having first world problems 

A lot of the reasons for poor mental health are also due to urbanisation and the atomisation and sedentary lifestyle that brings. Urban centres are more pricey so financial stress and longer work hours to keep up is another. Additionally the sex and the city lifestyle that freedom brings. 
 

A article on Feminism:

“Feminism always oversteps its bounds and unravels the society in which it presents itself. It tilts towards seeking independence from men failing to see their interdependence with them. In the absence of men, women must become men to handle life’s harsher realities.

 

First generation feminism is a honeymoon phase, the best of both, because you see increased liberty, but haven’t undone the institutions of tradition you rally against but continue to benefit from.

 

In the 1st gen female workforce participation increases, but isn’t saturated. The average man can still take care of his family on a single wage. Men are still chivalrous. You’re less religious, but you haven’t forgone it entirely yet. You’re less chaste, but still possess shame.

 

You don’t come from broken families, and your birth rate isn’t depressed yet. So you have a present mother, father and many siblings. But it will be your generation that deprives your kids of the stability your parents gave you, because you will ignore their wisdom to be modern and free.

 

Things they endured and tolerated and stayed together through and didn’t divorce over, you will divorce over. The familial social ties that regulate and serve to preserve marriages will disintegrate, as everybody becomes less religious, more promiscuous, and more materialistic.

 

The west has shown the path of feminism not once, but twice.

 

First with Rome, and today, with the cultural state of Europe and the Anglosphere. It always leads to ruin. No sufficiently advanced society can elevate women at the expense of men without declining + destroying itself.

 

The path of your society will not be any different. You will not stop at the first wave. You will not learn from our mistakes. You will make the same mistakes and follow the same process. It's only in your foolish hubris you believe you're special and it'll be different for you.

 

I see feminism as women selling their granddaughters down the line. So that she may choose to work, her granddaughter will be forced to work. So that she may choose to study out of vanity, her granddaughter will be required to study to survive.

 

Today's women's choices are tomorrow's women's obligations.

 

I always cringe when they talk about "the women that paved the way" as if they built something rather than dismantled something.

 

They tell you they gave you freedoms, but the real freedom was theirs, you have no choice.

 

Older women have sold younger women down the line, so they could have it all in their youths, then packaged it to younger women as freeing them from the oppressive yokes they lived under.

 

Even though women in their time were happier, less stressed and didn't work as much/at all.

 

Feminism doesn’t remove obligation from women, it simply changes the set of obligations to ones which are less equitable.

 

This isn’t to say I don’t understand female resentment towards poor male leadership and excessive tyranny. But feminism is a false panacea for such ailments. In truth, most issues of tyranny are issues of low development.

 

Less developed men tend to govern more with violence. They are less interested in your opinion or leveraging your feelings to get you to cooperate. They would simply command you, and scare you into compliance.

 

It’s this you resent. Some patriarchies are excessive, but the alternative is worse. Limiting women's freedom and sexuality is the price of civilization. No regulation = no civilization.

 

What we really need is a better answer to leas developed male tyranny than feminism, because feminism is too destructive. The answer to bad men or ‘patriarchy’ isn’t the absence of men but the presence of good men.”

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by zazen

[zazen]

Part of spiral dynamics growth is integrating lower stages in a healthy manner - not to dismiss lower stage truths of reality and frame fact as purely mythic fiction to be tossed to the bin.

We can critique other societies that practice tyrannical forms of patriarchy but dismissing patriarchy completely can prove to be an error.

People who have an allergic reaction to religion and tradition as archaic backward domains  because their stage green liberal can often overlook the very freedom and value they provide.

Present society liberals deconstruct the construct they feel failed them - modernity. People feel disillusioned and will either drop all constructs for anarchic post modernism or revert back to tradition in a regressive way for some semblance of order and as a shortcut to thinking due to the over thinking moral relativism brings about. Exhaustion.

Part of integrating the past stages is to see the value in them. The following is interesting in showing some value healthy patriarchy can provide women:

 

“The absence of patriarchal protection is more barbaric than its presence as it allows immoral, dangerous and unviable long-term prospects to plunder women at the peak of their beauty and fertility, sometimes even monetising them.

In matters of women you have to ask yourself: does this practice make it easier or harder for sociopaths to access and exploit them? It's a net good if it makes it harder, and a net evil if it makes easier - even if that comes at the price of some of the woman's freedom.

Feminism maximises female liberty thereby minimising her security - it's much harder to take advantage of women, sexually use them and monetise them in a patriarchal conservative society where daughters have less autonomy but are more protected, than in one where fathers are stripped of all authority and the woman makes her own choices. If the feminist experiment has taught us anything, it's that women being more emotionally inclined fall prey to the predatory few amongst men.

The major recurring theme of clown world, as is true of all spiritual battles between good and evil, is that of inversion. Just as a demon would turn the holy cross upside down to mock the trinity, these unholy ideologies reframe protectiveness as oppressiveness in the battle to reframe vice as virtue and virtue as vice, because if all forms of control can be destroyed - even those which are benevolent and protective and act as a check and balance on destructive behaviour, then chaos can reign, and when chaos reigns civilization comes undone.”

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by zazen

[Lila9]

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Yes he seems to me like the best option for the election that probably will come after the war I think I will vote to him.

Even when the two camps (liberal vs pro yariv levin's plan to reform the court) were fighting each other to hell, Gantz although was very liberal and anti the reform, still tried all the time to promote a communication with all the sides and thats why I think he is green but also slightly above.

Interesting, thank you.

7 hours ago, Nivsch said:

After october 7th everything has changed and this internal fighting is an history. Our society has changed forever and I hope that to the better.

Hopefully 🙏

 

2 hours ago, Yimpa said:

We tend to ignore or deny when our mind and body is in a constant alert state. By doing so, we severely limit our capacity towards holistic understanding and clarity. Our communication also becomes predominantly judgmental and biased.

Now imagine that almost everyone is doing this. This should give you an idea of why these issues never get resolved at a deep, fundamental level.

Constantly being in survival mode will not solve complex problem in the long-term, rather, it keeps us stuck in that cycle.

I agree, our understanding tends to be limited to our survival bias and it's not enough to resolve complex issues.

[Lila9]

23 minutes ago, zazen said:

Part of spiral dynamics growth is integrating lower stages in a healthy manner - not to dismiss lower stage truths of reality and frame fact as purely mythic fiction to be tossed to the bin.

We can critique other societies that practice tyrannical forms of patriarchy but dismissing patriarchy completely can prove to be an error.

People who have an allergic reaction to religion and tradition as archaic backward domains  because their stage green liberal can often overlook the very freedom and value they provide.

Present society liberals deconstruct the construct they feel failed them - modernity. People feel disillusioned and will either drop all constructs for anarchic post modernism or revert back to tradition in a regressive way for some semblance of order and as a shortcut to thinking due to the over thinking moral relativism brings about. Exhaustion.

Part of integrating the past stages is to see the value in them. The following is interesting in showing some value healthy patriarchy can provide women:

 

“The absence of patriarchal protection is more barbaric than its presence as it allows immoral, dangerous and unviable long-term prospects to plunder women at the peak of their beauty and fertility, sometimes even monetising them.

In matters of women you have to ask yourself: does this practice make it easier or harder for sociopaths to access and exploit them? It's a net good if it makes it harder, and a net evil if it makes easier - even if that comes at the price of some of the woman's freedom.

Feminism maximises female liberty thereby minimising her security - it's much harder to take advantage of women, sexually use them and monetise them in a patriarchal conservative society where daughters have less autonomy but are more protected, than in one where fathers are stripped of all authority and the woman makes her own choices. If the feminist experiment has taught us anything, it's that women being more emotionally inclined fall prey to the predatory few amongst men.

The major recurring theme of clown world, as is true of all spiritual battles between good and evil, is that of inversion. Just as a demon would turn the holy cross upside down to mock the trinity, these unholy ideologies reframe protectiveness as oppressiveness in the battle to reframe vice as virtue and virtue as vice, because if all forms of control can be destroyed - even those which are benevolent and protective and act as a check and balance on destructive behaviour, then chaos can reign, and when chaos reigns civilization comes undone.”

 

 

The thing is that patriarchy is based on society not being safe for women, of men not being safe for women, and in a society that isn't safe for women, women should be protected by men from other men. They must be dependent on men and be at their mercy to be saved from other men. Also, if something bad happens to a women by a man, it doesn't grantee that she will be saved and justice will be made and the agressor will pay the price. In patriarchal society, mostly women are those who pay the price of men hurting them, for example, if a man rapes a woman, she usually would be the one to blame.

But when society is safe for women, and men are safe for women, there is no need for this unhealthy dependence on men for survival which also limits the woman's personal and spiritual growth.

In fact, the fact that men as a collective relatively safe for women and women are given rights and the protection from the law, it's the ultimate protection, thus, patriarchal society in particular isn't required.

When a woman isn't dependent on a man for basic survival, she has the power to choose a man she wants and not the one she needs, the choice is made by a free will and not because of necessity, which opens the possibilty of higher and more authentic form of love. 

However, there is a need for compassionate yet strong form of masculinity in the society, healthy masculinity. Not compassionate but weak and not strong but lack in compassion. There is a need for a healthy balance between the masculine and the feminine, a society which honors both.

This is not to demonize patriarchy as it is a step in the human collective evolutionary development, a step we are stepping on altogether. But it's not and shouldn't be the ultimate goal.

 

[Twentyfirst]

2 hours ago, zazen said:

Part of spiral dynamics growth is integrating lower stages in a healthy manner - not to dismiss lower stage truths of reality and frame fact as purely mythic fiction to be tossed to the bin.

We can critique other societies that practice tyrannical forms of patriarchy but dismissing patriarchy completely can prove to be an error.

People who have an allergic reaction to religion and tradition as archaic backward domains  because their stage green liberal can often overlook the very freedom and value they provide.

Present society liberals deconstruct the construct they feel failed them - modernity. People feel disillusioned and will either drop all constructs for anarchic post modernism or revert back to tradition in a regressive way for some semblance of order and as a shortcut to thinking due to the over thinking moral relativism brings about. Exhaustion.

Part of integrating the past stages is to see the value in them. The following is interesting in showing some value healthy patriarchy can provide women:

 

“The absence of patriarchal protection is more barbaric than its presence as it allows immoral, dangerous and unviable long-term prospects to plunder women at the peak of their beauty and fertility, sometimes even monetising them.

In matters of women you have to ask yourself: does this practice make it easier or harder for sociopaths to access and exploit them? It's a net good if it makes it harder, and a net evil if it makes easier - even if that comes at the price of some of the woman's freedom.

Feminism maximises female liberty thereby minimising her security - it's much harder to take advantage of women, sexually use them and monetise them in a patriarchal conservative society where daughters have less autonomy but are more protected, than in one where fathers are stripped of all authority and the woman makes her own choices. If the feminist experiment has taught us anything, it's that women being more emotionally inclined fall prey to the predatory few amongst men.

The major recurring theme of clown world, as is true of all spiritual battles between good and evil, is that of inversion. Just as a demon would turn the holy cross upside down to mock the trinity, these unholy ideologies reframe protectiveness as oppressiveness in the battle to reframe vice as virtue and virtue as vice, because if all forms of control can be destroyed - even those which are benevolent and protective and act as a check and balance on destructive behaviour, then chaos can reign, and when chaos reigns civilization comes undone.”

 

Its crazy how much better arranged marriages are 

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

6 hours ago, zazen said:

A lot of the reasons for poor mental health are also due to urbanisation and the atomisation and sedentary lifestyle that brings. Urban centres are more pricey so financial stress and longer work hours to keep up is another. Additionally the sex and the city lifestyle that freedom brings. 
 

A article on Feminism:

“Feminism always oversteps its bounds and unravels the society in which it presents itself. It tilts towards seeking independence from men failing to see their interdependence with them. In the absence of men, women must become men to handle life’s harsher realities.

 

First generation feminism is a honeymoon phase, the best of both, because you see increased liberty, but haven’t undone the institutions of tradition you rally against but continue to benefit from.

 

In the 1st gen female workforce participation increases, but isn’t saturated. The average man can still take care of his family on a single wage. Men are still chivalrous. You’re less religious, but you haven’t forgone it entirely yet. You’re less chaste, but still possess shame.

 

You don’t come from broken families, and your birth rate isn’t depressed yet. So you have a present mother, father and many siblings. But it will be your generation that deprives your kids of the stability your parents gave you, because you will ignore their wisdom to be modern and free.

 

Things they endured and tolerated and stayed together through and didn’t divorce over, you will divorce over. The familial social ties that regulate and serve to preserve marriages will disintegrate, as everybody becomes less religious, more promiscuous, and more materialistic.

 

The west has shown the path of feminism not once, but twice.

 

First with Rome, and today, with the cultural state of Europe and the Anglosphere. It always leads to ruin. No sufficiently advanced society can elevate women at the expense of men without declining + destroying itself.

 

The path of your society will not be any different. You will not stop at the first wave. You will not learn from our mistakes. You will make the same mistakes and follow the same process. It's only in your foolish hubris you believe you're special and it'll be different for you.

 

I see feminism as women selling their granddaughters down the line. So that she may choose to work, her granddaughter will be forced to work. So that she may choose to study out of vanity, her granddaughter will be required to study to survive.

 

Today's women's choices are tomorrow's women's obligations.

 

I always cringe when they talk about "the women that paved the way" as if they built something rather than dismantled something.

 

They tell you they gave you freedoms, but the real freedom was theirs, you have no choice.

 

Older women have sold younger women down the line, so they could have it all in their youths, then packaged it to younger women as freeing them from the oppressive yokes they lived under.

 

Even though women in their time were happier, less stressed and didn't work as much/at all.

 

Feminism doesn’t remove obligation from women, it simply changes the set of obligations to ones which are less equitable.

 

This isn’t to say I don’t understand female resentment towards poor male leadership and excessive tyranny. But feminism is a false panacea for such ailments. In truth, most issues of tyranny are issues of low development.

 

Less developed men tend to govern more with violence. They are less interested in your opinion or leveraging your feelings to get you to cooperate. They would simply command you, and scare you into compliance.

 

It’s this you resent. Some patriarchies are excessive, but the alternative is worse. Limiting women's freedom and sexuality is the price of civilization. No regulation = no civilization.

 

What we really need is a better answer to leas developed male tyranny than feminism, because feminism is too destructive. The answer to bad men or ‘patriarchy’ isn’t the absence of men but the presence of good men.”

 

 

6 hours ago, zazen said:

Part of spiral dynamics growth is integrating lower stages in a healthy manner - not to dismiss lower stage truths of reality and frame fact as purely mythic fiction to be tossed to the bin.

We can critique other societies that practice tyrannical forms of patriarchy but dismissing patriarchy completely can prove to be an error.

People who have an allergic reaction to religion and tradition as archaic backward domains  because their stage green liberal can often overlook the very freedom and value they provide.

Present society liberals deconstruct the construct they feel failed them - modernity. People feel disillusioned and will either drop all constructs for anarchic post modernism or revert back to tradition in a regressive way for some semblance of order and as a shortcut to thinking due to the over thinking moral relativism brings about. Exhaustion.

Part of integrating the past stages is to see the value in them. The following is interesting in showing some value healthy patriarchy can provide women:

 

“The absence of patriarchal protection is more barbaric than its presence as it allows immoral, dangerous and unviable long-term prospects to plunder women at the peak of their beauty and fertility, sometimes even monetising them.

In matters of women you have to ask yourself: does this practice make it easier or harder for sociopaths to access and exploit them? It's a net good if it makes it harder, and a net evil if it makes easier - even if that comes at the price of some of the woman's freedom.

Feminism maximises female liberty thereby minimising her security - it's much harder to take advantage of women, sexually use them and monetise them in a patriarchal conservative society where daughters have less autonomy but are more protected, than in one where fathers are stripped of all authority and the woman makes her own choices. If the feminist experiment has taught us anything, it's that women being more emotionally inclined fall prey to the predatory few amongst men.

The major recurring theme of clown world, as is true of all spiritual battles between good and evil, is that of inversion. Just as a demon would turn the holy cross upside down to mock the trinity, these unholy ideologies reframe protectiveness as oppressiveness in the battle to reframe vice as virtue and virtue as vice, because if all forms of control can be destroyed - even those which are benevolent and protective and act as a check and balance on destructive behaviour, then chaos can reign, and when chaos reigns civilization comes undone.”

 

   Well written posts, very nice and good laying of context.

[Lila9]

 

 

[Yimpa]

Ideologies form when misunderstandings are taken to an extremely detailed level.

[Karmadhi]

On 11/18/2023 at 10:55 AM, Vrubel said:

Netanyahu on himself is a pretty reasonable and pragmatic guy, he is definitely a tier above guys like Erdogan, Bolsenaro and Trump

He is as ruthless if not more than Putin. He does not value human life more than Putin does.

He undermines democracy and rule of law for his personal power.

He is very corrupt and had trials for corruption ongoing.

He makes Israel weak, hated by the world and kills thousands of kids.

Terrible leader.