Why do spiritual teachers evolve to Turquoise?

[Happy Lizard]

We know that there is no relationship between waking up and growing up, otherwise every spiritual teacher would have been Turquoise which is not the reality.

What drive current and last century spiritual teachers to grow up to Turquoise?

Sadhguru, Osho, Mooji, Shinzen Young
Osho can definitely pass as yellow seeing his personal library, truly inspiring.
Shinzen Young too.

But what about Mooji ? He was a typical green before his awakening. Sadhguru the way he tells his awaking story he seems like he was a typical business owner stage Orange guy "me and tears were impossible" - Sadhguru. 

Anyone sees/have any insight on this? 

[Leo Gura]

Turquoise requires a sophisticated sort of thinking, not just spiritual experiences.

[Happy Lizard]

@Leo Gura This is exactly what I’m wondering, how come these spiritual teachers at Orange and Green grew so fast to Turquoise? Why would that be thing for them?
 

It makes no sense to me expect for Osho since he was book worm and university professor I think who was possibly at Yellow and also into spirituality. 
 

 

 

[Raze]

My personal theory is the ego has a natural expansion than dissolution cycle but it gets interrupted by micro or major traumas and solidifies, spiral dynamic stages are general principles of how people in the states behave collectively, and classical enlightenment is actually just parts / chunks of the ego dissolving rapidly and unevenly. I think this explains why later spiral stages or stages from the ego development model sound similar to certain enlightened people even though the enlightened people didn’t go through the stages.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Raze

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Happy Lizard said:

how come these spiritual teachers at Orange and Green grew so fast to Turquoise?

Basically, don't assume anyone is Turquoise. The vast majority here don't know what Turquoise is.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Danioover9000]

@Happy Lizard

1 hour ago, Happy Lizard said:

@Leo Gura This is exactly what I’m wondering, how come these spiritual teachers at Orange and Green grew so fast to Turquoise? Why would that be thing for them?
 

It makes no sense to me expect for Osho since he was book worm and university professor I think who was possibly at Yellow and also into spirituality. 
 

 

 

   Book worm Osho?😂

[Happy Lizard]

21 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Happy Lizard

   Book worm Osho?😂

Umm .. yeah

 

[Happy Lizard]

53 minutes ago, Raze said:

I think this explains why later spiral stages or stages from the ego development model sound similar to certain enlightened people even though the enlightened people didn’t go through the stages.

Idk Osho and Sadhguru have comments that definitely puts them beyond green, not just spiritual talk but comments that show their level of development.

 

My theory is that they just go through the growing up process faster than most people.

[Raze]

40 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

Idk Osho and Sadhguru have comments that definitely puts them beyond green, not just spiritual talk but comments that show their level of development.

That’s what I mean, neither of them have record of spending time in solid green or yellow, yet they have insights similar to stage turquoise and beyond.

[Girzo]

9 hours ago, Happy Lizard said:

Sadhguru the way he tells his awaking story he seems like he was a typical business owner stage Orange guy "me and tears were impossible" - Sadhguru. 

You are not completely correct. He was a business man, but he also had read a shit-ton of books while doing his English degree, spent all days in the library, and only attended college so his family doesn't interrupt him sitting in the library without getting a degree. 

He had been also some kind of a socialist activist as a student, something like that.

And then... he became Enlightened, yes, but mastered his public persona and yoga workshop skills for decades before hitting the mainstream.

[Twentyfirst]

I accidentally reached Turquoise at like age 20 hahahaha

I didn't like it so I purposely reverted back 

Y'all take this shit way too seriously and it holds you back 

[Twentyfirst]

10 minutes ago, Francis777 said:

Honestly, some of the waffle that gets posted on this forum dumbfounds me. 
 

“accidentally bumped into some turquoise stage thinking, wasn’t quite my swagger, yall need to chill out”

LiStEn To YoUrSeLf FaM, WhAt ArE YoU bABbLiNg AbOuT

Keep "working up the spirals" then. Let me know in 20 years when you finally get where want to be 

[Salvijus]

14 hours ago, Happy Lizard said:

We know that there is no relationship between waking up and growing up

I would question this. 

All ignorance, immaturity, toxic behavior, close mindedness, self-deception, compulsiveness, animalistic tendencies. I would argue all that is just lack of self-awareness. It is only an unconcious person that can do stupid things. These two words stupidness and unconcious are literally sinonimous. 

And All the qualities of broadthinking, honesty, insightfulness, inclusiveness, compassion, wholesome living, are a result of high self-awareness and high ego transendence. All wisdom comes from awareness. And those who embody high awareness are bound to live in alignment with those qualities that reflect truthfulness

This applies only if you’re following a sober path tho. On psychedelics it's a different story. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

I'm kinda fired up to say more. 

All behavior hinges on your perception of reality. If your perception of reality is inacurrate it will make you behave a certain way that often gets labaled as uninteligent. 

If your perception of reality is truthful. Then your behavior and response to every situation will be in alignment with truth. And that behavior will be labeled as wisdom and intelligence. 

In conclusion, your behavior is a reflection of your level of awareness.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Salvijus

[Ash55]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Basically, don't assume anyone is Turquoise. The vast majority here don't know what Turquoise is.

I start to understand what do you mean by that

i noticed that spiral dynamics mostly map the mind also doesn't really map the emotional body or any other aspect of a human being

 

16 hours ago, Happy Lizard said:

was a typical business owner stage Orange guy "me and tears were impossible" - Sadhguru. 

Well you can have red purple blue orange and green in you at higher stages for sure and yellow literally think of success not as a way to make his net worth bigger but to solve systemic problem and create bushiness in alignment with the environment sadhguru have a saying we need a marriage between ecology and economy that is tier 2 thinking

you can have business on all the stages starting from red probably it wont be long lasting i assume, business at stage yellow could be vastly better than at stage orange its goal wont be making as much money as possible tho

well at tier 2 instead doing business in the dysfunctional manner that exist with things like fight or flight response, it could manifest in a way that is in alignment with earth the universe the environments other countries win win win win situation

 

[UnbornTao]

On 18/11/2023 at 9:33 AM, Salvijus said:

I would question this. 

All ignorance, immaturity, toxic behavior, close mindedness, self-deception, compulsiveness, animalistic tendencies. I would argue all that is just lack of self-awareness. It is only an unconcious person that can do stupid things. These two words stupidness and unconcious are literally sinonimous. 

And All the qualities of broadthinking, honesty, insightfulness, inclusiveness, compassion, wholesome living, are a result of high self-awareness and high ego transendence. All wisdom comes from awareness. And those who embody high awareness are bound to live in alignment with those qualities that reflect truthfulness

This applies only if you’re following a sober path tho. On psychedelics it's a different story. 

They're still humans.

For example, Jesus was known to be irascible according to legend. Maybe the Buddha did some despicable things. Similar cases abound. Problematic gurus in certain areas of life have always existed.

Individuals can do all kinds of things, even when profoundly conscious.

Edited November 19, 2023 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

@Twentyfirst @Francis777 I'd ease up on the model as you seem to be taking it too seriously. It's a tool to be taken lightly. 

Easy to confuse the real work with an abstract progression that you do with the model.

I say this because you're talking as if it were true. Transcending a model, being turquoise, etc. are simplistic notions. What's essential is experiencing things for themselves.

This bears repeating.

Edited November 18, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Salvijus]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

There're always exceptions

I don’t think there is an exception that only out of unawareness can someone perform an action that is out of alignment with truth and wholeness. I also believe how you respond to things define you and your level of awareness at that moment, without exception. 

I would rather question how accurate and credible are the stories of those supposed evil actions of a guru. And how correct was the judgement of the one who was interpreting a guru's behavior. Because a tainted eye tend to see evil when there is none. Or I would question their level of enlightenment. Maybe an example that is being scrutinized is not of a legit enlightened being to begin with. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Salvijus

[Francis777]

4 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

@Twentyfirst @Francis777 I'd ease up on the model as you seem to be taking it too seriously. It isn't true, but perhaps a useful tool depending on what's being talked about. 

I say this because you're talking as if it were. Transcending a model, being turquoise, etc are simplistic notions. The matter of experiencing things is paramount. 

This bears repeating.

Just a reminder.

I mean this goes without saying doesn't it?

[UnbornTao]

20 hours ago, Francis777 said:

I mean this goes without saying doesn't it?

Not necessarily.

Easy to think you're making progress when you're actually "abstracting" (making abstractions) based on the model.

Edited November 19, 2023 by UnbornTao