The Andromeda Test

[kenway]

Consider the following theoretical exercise:-

You have a 5-year old daughter of whom you know very well, and who has recently been kidnapped by gangsters. At the same time, these gangsters have also kidnapped a random homeless man, of whom you know nothing.

The gangsters have informed you that they are planning on killing one of these people and letting the other go, and that you are the one that has to decide who dies and who is released.

To be clear, they are either going to kill your 5-year old daughter and let the homeless person go, or they are going to kill the homeless person and let your 5-year old daughter go.

This is a theoretical exercise, so there are no other options available to you. You cannot abstain, nor can you kill yourself, nor can you suddenly turn into an action hero and attempt to take on the gangsters. You only available options are:-

1. 5-year old daughter dies and the homeless person is freed.

2. Homeless person dies and the 5-year old daughter is freed.

3. Flip a coin.

What do you do, and how do you reason your decision?

 

 

[Osaid]

Homeless person dies. Daughter lives.

I don't know anything about the homeless person, I know everything about my daughter. It is the safest option with the knowledge I have.

[numbersinarow]

38 minutes ago, Osaid said:

Homeless person dies. Daughter lives.

I don't know anything about the homeless person, I know everything about my daughter. It is the safest option with the knowledge I have.

How much do you value this? Would you rather save an 80 "IQ" [Hypothetically speaking if IQ was real or accurate.] person who is a close 5 year friend, or a 200 "IQ" person who is a complete stranger? I'd save the stranger.

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, numbersinarow said:

How much do you value this? Would you rather save an 80 "IQ" [Hypothetically speaking if IQ was real or accurate.] person who is a close 5 year friend, or a 200 "IQ" person who is a complete stranger? I'd save the stranger.

I would save the friend for the same reason as saving the daughter. So my answer wouldn't change.

[The Renaissance Man]

I'd do the same as @Osaid, sorry. If there was a third, more risky option for myself to try and save both, maybe it would be different. But with 50-50 I'm picking my daughter, of course.

[Leo Gura]

How is this even an interesting choice?

It would be a lot more interesting if you had to choose between your daughter and 10 homeless strangers.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[josemar]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How is this even an interesting choice?

It would be a lot more interesting if you had to choose between your daughter and 10 homeless strangers.

In most movies, the protagonists choose 1 relative, sometimes sick, old or otherwise impaired over millions and billions of people.

Can't remember the name of the movie, but a French/Swiss scientist, with the possibility to find the weapon to fight some generic alien invasion driven by Boston dynamics robot dogs, escaped from  military protection for the chance to 'save' her drug addicted, possibly dead, sister.

[josemar]

8 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

How much do you value this? Would you rather save an 80 "IQ" [Hypothetically speaking if IQ was real or accurate.] person who is a close 5 year friend, or a 200 "IQ" person who is a complete stranger? I'd save the stranger.

Only person with a claimed 200 IQ i know of is Chris Langan and I find him insufferable, so I'd choose to save anyone over him ☠️

You'd have to ve very disconnected from your humanness to choose any one person instead of your daughter, in the relative world you gave her life and are supposed to be her protector.

[kenway]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How is this even an interesting choice?

It would be a lot more interesting if you had to choose between your daughter and 10 homeless strangers.

 

Well... because for me, I'd flip a coin, even between my daughter and one homeless stranger. I wouldn't even think twice about it.

The premise being that I am my daughter, and I am the homeless person.

For me, there's no space here for group preference at all, and given that there is no such thing as death, it makes no difference (to me) either way.

But I was just wondering how others viewed it.

[josemar]

4 minutes ago, kenway said:

 

Well... because for me, I'd flip a coin, even between my daughter and one homeless stranger. I wouldn't even think twice about it.

The premise being that I am my daughter, and I am the homeless person.

For me, there's no space here for group preference at all, and given that there is no such thing as death, it makes no difference (to me) either way.

But I was just wondering how others viewed it.

What would your wife think about that ... Would you still have a wife?

[Ayham]

@kenway all spirituality gets thrown out of the window when it is a matter of survival

 

Whether it's your survival or your children

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

 

Well... because for me, I'd flip a coin, even between my daughter and one homeless stranger. I wouldn't even think twice about it.

The premise being that I am my daughter, and I am the homeless person.

That's only cause you obviously don't have children.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

I’d save my daughter, that’s obvious. 

[Vrubel]

To save my daughter I would kill all homeless people and solve the homelessness crisis, thank me later.

How is that a real dilemma? For me, it only becomes a dilemma when I have to choose between killing my daughter or two other girls of the same age that I know. That's a situation I'd rather kill myself in. 

[Thought Art]

@Bandman it’s not trolling. But likely arm chair spirituality 

[kenway]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's only cause you obviously don't have children.

That's true, I don't.

But I can't see how that would add any extra spiritual or ontological information.

It would be akin to saying that the animal instinct is greater than the angel instinct, which is not necessarily the case.

To me, not doing anything other than flipping a coin represents a failure to transcend the animal instinct in an area that matters the most.

Edited November 18, 2023 by kenway

[kenway]

8 hours ago, josemar said:

What would your wife think about that ... ?

Probably the same thoughts as the daughter of the homeless guy.... who loves her father very much and wants nothing else than him to return home where it's warm and safe.

[An young being]

21 minutes ago, kenway said:

To me, not doing anything other than flipping a coin represents a failure to transcend the animal instinct in an area that matters the most.

What about not saving both? Saving one is also an animal instinct.

[kenway]

1 hour ago, An young being said:

What about not saving both? Saving one is also an animal instinct.

Because that's not one of the options available as laid out in the exercise.

The point of the exercise is to bring to the fore the reality of how you identify with yourself, and your loyalties and priorities that expand out of that identity. Do you identify as human, or do you identify as God? By forcing to make a choice in who lives and dies, you are exposing the extent to which your animalistic programmings are a significant force relative to your angelic instincts or spiritual understandings.

In addition to preference, it also exposes the ontologically meaningless instinct to survive, relative to the greater understanding that you are eternal by default.

[Girzo]

Haha, meaningless instinct... man. This whole life is the Meaning. You write the great cosmic story to enjoy. I would enjoy a story where I rescue my daughter more than some random from the streets.