To All Members

[LSD-Rumi]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

reading Leo's letter, every 5 words, a limit, a barrier, a concept. It is painful to read it, for me it is complete self-deception. probes Ralston with the dogma of actualized, do you know you are god? Do you know that you are creating reality? do you know that reality is love? all concrete, conceptual, lines, planes and angles.

If I read that letter without knowing who it is from, I think it is from a guy who takes drugs and believes what he sees when he is drugged, and divides reality into truth (drugged state) and lies (sober state). All knowledge, such as that others do not exist, as opposed to the lie of the sober state, that others exist. Attachment to know things, to the mental grips. The opposite of awakening.

For me, someone who thinks like that is on the path to depression and psychosis. It's funny to see the actualized believers, who think they are a superior caste for having adopted Leo's ideas. 

Could you elaborate on what self-deceptions you think Leo is engaging in?

[Breakingthewall]

16 hours ago, Osaid said:

you want to see the difference between Leo and an actual enlightened person, it is perfectly exemplified in the exchange between Leo and Ralston in his newsletter:

https://mcusercontent.com/8a146e2bfe98efdd8c326d97a/files/08332a98-370d-44da-86ff-2c04a3ff1858/CHNL_Summer_2020.pdf?mc_cid=f12b90ff1c&mc_eid=3667cfd58d

16 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

15 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

15 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

I don't know if Ralston is enlightened or not, but I see clearly how leo is attached to the mental grips, to the structures. That surely leads to deception.

It is also a sad to see what this forum has become, religious people, believers, who have adopted Leo's ideas and who defend them against non-believers.

True spirituality is breaking all structures, not adopting others based on your insights in psychedelic trips, or worse, on the insights of another.

[LSD-Rumi]

16 hours ago, Osaid said:

He is philosophizing all of his experiences and creating some kind of metaphysical framework out of it. Very hard to see, I only noticed when I myself became enlightened. Any person who is enlightened will see it immediately, as did Ralston. He will probably deny it if you ask him because that is what he has to tell himself to keep that game going, now he says there is such thing as "Absolute Concepts." (paraphrasing from what I remember)

If you want to see the difference between Leo and an actual enlightened person, it is perfectly exemplified in the exchange between Leo and Ralston in his newsletter:

https://mcusercontent.com/8a146e2bfe98efdd8c326d97a/files/08332a98-370d-44da-86ff-2c04a3ff1858/CHNL_Summer_2020.pdf?mc_cid=f12b90ff1c&mc_eid=3667cfd58d

16 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Lol. I think You are doing a lot of absolutely ungrounded projections here. The facts say, Leo derives all his philosophies from direct experience of very radical states of consciousness.

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Could you elaborate on what self-deceptions you think Leo is engaging in?

16 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

15 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

15 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

15 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

First, his addiction to knowing things. He is glorifying the concept, enclosing reality in words. To be awake is to know that you are God, you are creating reality and others are not real. All of these are constructions of the mind, structures that the rational mind creates, that are within reality, and it wants to enclose reality within them. He does this because he cannot let go of the center of experience, the self, the creator of structures. To do so, you have to abandon all structures, open yourself to the infinite that you are.

If you are creating structures, then the opening is not real, it is just a psychedelic trip where there is a partial opening mixed with structures twisted by the substance. To become infinite you must let go of everything, and everything means letting go of yourself completely, so let go all the definitions. 

How could you ask to someone: are you aware that you are god, and you are love? What means god for that person? And love? They are just words. But one thing is sure, when you say "you are god" you are deceived. God isn't"you" . You, the self, is the center of the experience, created by the experience, the one who thinks. Is inside of the reality, but he thinks that is the center of the infinity, the one who is always there, creating the experience, inventing the others and playing a game. So, a subject. The infinity is not a subject, a subject is created in the infinity. That way of thinking, I'm god, I'm imagining, etc, is greed. Everything for me, for the center, to make the ego immortal and powerful. 

Awakening is the opposite, that's why almost nobody likes, is generosity, drop yourself in the void, give up your need to understand, to be a center, to remain, to know, to exist, and infinite reality, the limitless ocean of existence, is revealed. You are that, and by realizing that, you see clearly that everything you think means absolutely nothing, because the you who thinks means nothing. 

[LSD-Rumi]

39 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

First, his addiction to knowing things. He is glorifying the concept, enclosing reality in words. To be awake is to know that you are God, you are creating reality and others are not real. All of these are constructions of the mind, structures that the rational mind creates, that are within reality, and it wants to enclose reality within them. He does this because he cannot let go of the center of experience, the self, the creator of structures. To do so, you have to abandon all structures, open yourself to the infinite that you are.

Creating concepts and deriving insights is a very fundamental aspect of the spiritual work. If you reach very high states of consciousness without generating some solid insights then your trip is near worthless.

On the contrary, I started to notice that streamlined spiritual teachers have some real deficiencies when it comes to this point. Their understanding of reality is somewhat chaotic and not organized in ground rules while Leo excels in doing this.

Quote

If you are creating structures, then the opening is not real, it is just a psychedelic trip where there is a partial opening mixed with structures twisted by the substance. To become infinite you must let go of everything, and everything means letting go of yourself completely, so let go all the definitions. 

I think raising consciousness doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of the mind. It means starting to create a different kind of mind. No mind philosophy is deeply flawed. God is not no mind, God is a radically different kind of mind.

Edited November 18, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Creating concepts and deriving insights is a very fundamental aspect of the spiritual work. If you reach very high states of consciousness without generating some solid insights then your trip is near worthless.

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

 

19 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

18 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

 

18 hours ago, Osaid said:

 

The goal of this is not to know things, it is to open yourself to the infinite. The mental structures, the insights, are within the infinite, they cannot contain it. Its only usefulness is to promote openness. Ultimately, the mind must be empty of content, of structure, since all of that is limiting. Once you open yourself to infinity, there is nothing you can bring from there to the conceptual world, since the conceptual world is a construction within infinity.

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Their understanding of reality is somewhat chaotic and not organized in ground rules while Leo excels in doing this.

Yes but what he says means anything? Meaning is an illusion, in fact, when it's said that reality is illusion means that meaning is illusion. 

1 hour ago, LSD-Rumi said:

think raising consciousness doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of the mind. It means starting to create a different kind of mind. No mind philosophy is deeply flawed. God is not no mind, God is a radically different kind of mind.

Reality is existence, life, creation. You are a creation of existence and same time the existence. If you want to position yourself as a creation, then use the structured mind. If you want to open yourself to total existence, then you must let it go. Everything you think about existence is irrelevant, except if it helps you open to the state of pure existence.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Javfly33]

2 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Creating concepts and deriving insights is a very fundamental aspect of the spiritual work. If you reach very high states of consciousness without generating some solid insights then your trip is near worthless.

lol

Edited November 18, 2023 by Javfly33

[Breakingthewall]

6 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

If you reach very high states of consciousness without generating some solid insights then your trip is near worthless.

The objective of spirituality is not to understand things, it is to open yourself to the source, to the infinite, to joy, to life. For that it can be useful to understand things, but the objective is openness. Understanding things is nonsense if you can't understand all things. Why do you want to understand some, if there are infinitely more that you don't understand? With your finite mind you can understand finite things, so zero in comparison with infinity. If you open to infinity, you understand everything, because understanding=being. Understanding is infinite joy, infinite life. That's it. 

So at the end you can do two things: 

One, be in a limited state, where you use the conceptual mind to understand limited things. .

Two, be in unlimited state, open to infinity. Then you don't use the mind, because you are unlimited, so being is mixed with knowing, and with everything else. There is just openess to infinity, the real thing, the joy. This joy is total understanding. 

In the state 1, you can't bring the total joy. The state 1 closes the total joy with it's structures. In. The state 2 you can't bring the structures, because the state 2 break all of them. 

In short, the obvious: all that you think in the limited state, is limited, so the unlimited can't be here. And all that you are in the unlimited state is unlimited. In the exactly moment that is limited, you are in the limited state.

Could be said that reality is unlimited, so the limited state is just an appearance, so all the structured understanding is just an appearance. The limited mind doesn't like to admit this, doesn't like to admit that is just a shape without any meaning. 

Is it possible to have unlimited understanding? Yes, totally, but what I see for now is that it's impossible to bring to the limited, to the structured mind, because if you do, it's not the unlimited, its false by definition. 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[LSD-Rumi]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The objective of spirituality is not to understand things, it is to open yourself to the source, to the infinite, to joy, to life. For that it can be useful to understand things, but the objective is openness. Understanding things is nonsense if you can't understand all things. Why do you want to understand some, if there are infinitely more that you don't understand? With your finite mind you can understand finite things, so zero in comparison with infinity. If you open to infinity, you understand everything, because understanding=being. Understanding is infinite joy, infinite life. That's it. 

So at the end you can do two things: 

One, be in a limited state, where you use the conceptual mind to understand limited things. .

Two, be in unlimited state, open to infinity. Then you don't use the mind, because you are unlimited, so being is mixed with knowing, and with everything else. There is just openess to infinity, the real thing, the joy. This joy is total understanding. 

In the state 1, you can't bring the total joy. The state 1 closes the total joy with it's structures. In. The state 2 you can't bring the structures, because the state 2 break all of them. 

In short, the obvious: all that you think in the limited state, is limited, so the unlimited can't be here. And all that you are in the unlimited state is unlimited. In the exactly moment that is limited, you are in the limited state.

Could be said that reality is unlimited, so the limited state is just an appearance, so all the structured understanding is just an appearance. The limited mind doesn't like to admit this, doesn't like to admit that is just a shape without any meaning. 

Is it possible to have unlimited understanding? Yes, totally, but what I see for now is that it's impossible to bring to the limited, to the structured mind, because if you do, it's not the unlimited, its false by definition. 

 

The premise that I cannot have fun while thinking is obnoxious 

[Breakingthewall]

31 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

The premise that I cannot have fun while thinking is obnoxious 

I think we can have limited fun. But in my experience, everything limited never is enough.  

And let's see, maybe if we could be in unlimited state , mystical total perfection, for days, not just for 5 minutes, some deep understanding that I can't imagine could happen. 

Something is totally clear to me, I'm going to the unlimited, the limited is shit for me, I'm not interested in that mental frequency, it's always frustrating, like you are searching something without pause . What you are searching is the unlimited.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think we can have limited fun. But in my experience, everything limited never is enough.  

And let's see, maybe if we could be in unlimited state , mystical total perfection, for days, not just for 5 minutes, some deep understanding that I can't imagine could happen. 

Something is totally clear to me, I'm going to the unlimited, the limited is shit for me, I'm not interested in that mental frequency, it's always frustrating, like you are searching something without pause . What you are searching is the unlimited.

The limited=unlimited. You just created a concept. There is no where to go. I can enter bliss states with my will. All I have to do is surrender my self whenever I feel like it. Enlightenment is the fusion of self and no self. So I can experience duality and surrender it at will. The funny thing is every human is doing it, they are just not AWARE they are because they are lost in concepts that hide what is happening in plain site. 

But you all don't realize that concepts are tied to your biology. Until your very gene expression is rewritten you will not be fully awake.

[Osaid]

8 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

The facts say, Leo derives all his philosophies from direct experience of very radical states of consciousness.

They are philosophies. Useless in this work. Fun, beautiful, insightful, logical, and intellectually satisfying, but irrelevant to what is absolutely true. 

The fact that it comes from direct experience is irrelevant. Everything comes from direct experience. Science comes from direct experience. Delusions come from direct experience. Etc.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

The limited=unlimited.

Maybe, but if it seems limited, it is. It's like a rat maze, there's only one way out. Maybe the labyrinth is imaginary, but you are still in it.

I am not talking about states of bliss, but total openness to the infinite. It is not something like I am happy, but I am joy without limit, perfect, pure. joy is just the consequence of the absence of limit, of the opening to the great vastness, to the infinite.

The limits block what we are, perhaps only apparently, it is the same. Breaking those limits is very difficult but it is possible, it is a difficult game, very subtle. I myself am blocking what I want to allow to open, but once you get it once, the next one is easier, and then another, etc. For now, a moment , even 2 minutes, is enough. It is a state that forces you to want to get out of it, to return to your cage, since you are used to that, but the cage little by little is seen for what it is: a cage. It is not tolerable to live in it. We'll see if i can live looking into the face of infinity all the time.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Yimpa]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:44 PM, Osaid said:

If you want to see the difference between Leo and an actual enlightened person, it is perfectly exemplified in the exchange between Leo and Ralston in his newsletter:

https://mcusercontent.com/8a146e2bfe98efdd8c326d97a/files/08332a98-370d-44da-86ff-2c04a3ff1858/CHNL_Summer_2020.pdf?mc_cid=f12b90ff1c&mc_eid=3667cfd58d

Peter Ralston’s ending to his answer, though 

Quote

Love,
Peter

 

[Osaid]

Just now, Yimpa said:

Peter Ralston’s ending to his answer, though

No way, Peter confirmed that reality is Love??  😱

Guess he wasn't ASLEEP™ after all.

[gettoefl]

9 hours ago, Osaid said:

They are philosophies. Useless in this work. Fun, beautiful, insightful, logical, and intellectually satisfying, but irrelevant to what is absolutely true. 

The fact that it comes from direct experience is irrelevant. Everything comes from direct experience. Science comes from direct experience. Delusions come from direct experience. Etc.

yes different animals entirely, there is love of knowledge or knowledge of love

philos = love, sophia = knowledge

[Breakingthewall]

I don't know if I misunderstood but Leo tells Ralston that he doesn't want to do mashamadi for his family and his girlfriend, but not because they will be sad when he disappears, but because they will disappear, like the entire cosmos, when doing mashamadi.

[OBEler]

11 hours ago, Osaid said:

No way, Peter confirmed that reality is Love??  😱

Guess he wasn't ASLEEP™ after all.

Peter Ralston answers with "perhaps" to the question of Leo if love is the fundamental building Block. 

That doesnt sounds like Peter Ralston has any experience of infinite love 

[Breakingthewall]

Ralston's response is very weak and very paternalistic, without any interest in understanding Leo and treating him like a stupid inferior.

Most spiritual teachers have narcissism as their main motivation, and Ralston seems no exception. What Leo says can be understood from different angles, although from my point of view it denotes several weak points. conceptualization and unresolved karma, search for the absolute as an evasion to not face the challenge of this life, escapism,.just my opinion reading those lines. but repeating that: be careful, the drug is bad, like a grandmother, for me denotes a condescending attitude.

[UnbornTao]

Better not to spend a lot of time speculating about what others are conscious of and rather be grounded on your own work.

Edited November 19, 2023 by UnbornTao