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[Clarence]

I would now find meaning (in my own life) in sharing with people who understand the same things I understand. But I don't find such people where I live, and I don't find many more on the forum.

The desire to find/create some meaning, or to do something like spending a nice day with someone, don't negate knowing how meaningless everything is.

[OBEler]

36 minutes ago, Clarence said:

@Thought Art You make many assumptions without knowing me. I certainly am more mature, careful, and contemplating way more more than you can think.

@Jehovah increases I've been aware of the meaninglessness of life from a very early age and I have been living without meaning ever since. So I am well aware of how psychologically damaging that can be.

The positive is that I have no meaning left to lose, so I can only get some from deconstructing my mind even more and having very deep awakenings. I just don't understand why there aren't more people like me, but that is my bias/problem.

Haha I told you, you are already on top on this forum in spiritual progression in such a short time. 

Most people here are too attached to their ego and meaning constructs (including me..) . Maybe those who have no meaning, dont try 5 meos because they think it's meaningless anyway. Just a thought on this. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

22 hours ago, Clarence said:

As I was reading the Forum yesterday, I stumbled upon this post of Leo written in 2016 answering a comment:

Just realize how accurate it is.
Many of you think he is deluding himself and that only you have the Truth because you are enlightened or because you cherish enlightenment while Leo doesn't anymore.

But why did he stop pursuing enlightenment at some point?
Because he got lazy and uninterested and stumbled upon a lower form of consciousness which motivated him to give it up?
Or because he stumbled upon a higher form of consciousness making him realize how far from the Truth enlightenment has always been and how unworthy of a pursuit it was for understanding and awakening to all of reality ?

Why don't you seriously ponder that - and take the leap to verify that for yourself, doing whatever has to be done to get it. Why are you scared of psychedelics? And why are you scared of dropping your beliefs and to question again your entire experience and enlightenment for a while just to check? It really looks like a lot of you are scared of realizing that you are wrong.

Obviously, you don't admit that reason to yourself, you are too convince of being right to even allow yourself to question anymore, to allow yourself to explore psychedelics because you consider them as impure and unworthy of what is… but how can you say that if you haven't done the work to properly use them. You have no way to know. You only have believes and inaccuracies.

Is there at least one of you who is still OPENMINDED enough to seriously investigate that? That is my question, and I genuinely wonder. Is there at least one other person on this Forum doing that or willing to do that in a serious manner, especially one of those convinced to be right on Truth but disproving Leo? Do any of you still question yourself and willing to take the leap to use psychedelics?

If you are not doing that or willing to do that, your goal has never been to reach a complete understanding of reality and you do not have the Truth. Which is fine, but you are missing something. Something big. And you are deluding yourself and others.

I wouldn't say that Leo has become so advanced that no one understands him, but rather that he explains himself in a way that no one understands him. For me, when someone does this, it is because they are not clear in their mind what they want to say, they are confused.

[Thought Art]

@Clarence All I see are words really. Not you at all. But, I’ve read your post and those posts were immature and neurotic. Do you man.

Now, not entirely so don’t get me wrong. Just be careful.

[Clarence]

@OBEler It might be, but if it is, I seriously don't understand how it can be. (even though I do)

@Breakingthewall I personally find him extremely clear.
I don't know how clearer one could be on those topics. They're very tricky and I think he's doing a great job at formulating them and giving guidance to get to the same kind of understanding and realizations he got to.

@Thought Art Well yes, I don't really talk about me, but in my opinion, that's not relevant to the topic. Beside, I got my answers, you may stop working so hard telling me how immature and neurotic you think I am.

[Thought Art]

@Clarence I’m mainly saying to be careful. 
 

You’re probably more mature than many in a lot of ways. It’s relative.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Thought Art

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Clarence said:

personally find him extremely clear.
I don't know how clearer one could be on those topics. They're very tricky and I think he's doing a great job at formulating them and giving guidance to get to the same kind of understanding and realizations he got to.

He is clear in the videos because he has an idea and develops it, but in the forum it is not clear at all. It does not seem that the truth flows without his effort, it seems that he needs a lot of control, doubt is not allowed, he needs certainty. I don't understand him, he seems impenetrable to me, I don't know if he's saying what he really thinks or not, but he is a public guy, it's something difficult to imagine what is like. He can't change his realizations, because he published them and millions saw, that's a problem in the communication. I think he can't talk totally openly, it's very difficult to do always, in that situation, much more

Edited November 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Osaid]

Leo is still a philosopher, first and foremost. He is what you get when you try to reach enlightenment through philosophy. Yes, his communications can be very clear and direct and beautiful and intellectually satisfying. Enlightenment, truth, or reality, is not a philosophy and wont be captured that way though.

 

Quote

Osho, why do great philosophers and so forth, say such beautiful things and yet remain such a mess?’

Philosophers are like fences—they run round a lot without getting anywhere at all. Yes, they are exactly like a fence—it goes round and round, but it never reaches anywhere.
Thought is a vicious circle. One thought leads to another and so on, so forth, but you go on moving in a circle. You do a lot of running, but you never reach anywhere. Thought is inconclusive. Thought cannot give you the conclusion, it only pretends. It is a pretender. Conclusion comes through experience—that’s why scientists have moved towards the lab, experimentation, and the religious mystics have moved towards the inner lab, the experience. Religion is the science of the inner and science is the religion of the outer. Philosophy is a mess; it is just pure speculation. One sits and thinks without experimenting, without experiencing, and only experience or experiment is conclusive. Experiment is conclusive about the objective world—that which exists opposite to you, the other; and religion is experience, experiment of the inner, of the subjective—that which you are. Both are conclusive. Philosophy is inconclusive, it is an endless game.

But philosophers can say beautiful things. In fact, only they can say beautiful things. Philosophers can afford to say beautiful things, but they are only sayings. They may have a certain poetry, those statements, but they don’t have any reality, any truth. Yes, those statements can be beautiful, they can have a logical consistency, a logical harmony, but they don’t relate to reality at all. They are all false. There is nothing to choose between one philosophy and another—all philosophies are false.

The philosopher is one who has got stuck with the mind. Man has three layers: first, the body; second, the mind; third, the soul. This has to be understood. The soul is a reality, so is the body a reality. Mind is nothing but a bridge between the two; in itself it has no value. A bridge has no value in itself. It has value only because it bridges the two banks. It has no intrinsic value. The banks can exist without the bridge, but the bridge cannot exist without the banks. It is just a utility, a means. Mind is where soul and body overlap. Where body and soul overlap, a new kind of illusory reality is created. That illusory reality is mind.

Science trusts in the body, religion trusts in the soul, philosophy goes on trusting in the mind; it is a mind game.
Remember, when you are totally in your body, mind disappears. Or when you are totally in the soul, mind disappears. If you are making love and you are totally in the body, for a few moments there is no mind. You are so totally involved in the reality of the body that the mind cannot exist. Or, if you are deep in meditation, absolutely in, then the mind disappears. Reality is always a no-mind thing; whether you are in the body or in the soul doesn’t matter, reality is always a no-mind thing. Mind is MAYA, illusion.

You must have heard the often-repeated statement of Vedanta that the world is illusion. That is not exactly right—because by ‘world’ you understand the world of objects. When Vedanta says the world is illusory, what he means exactly is that the mind is illusory. The mind is the world. That is where you live, your world. You don’t live in the reality, in the real world, you live in thoughts, desires, fantasies, imaginations. You live in a mind world. That mind is MAYA; it is a magical thing. Nothing really exists—it is almost like a dream.

Every night you dream and when you are dreaming you think that the dream is real. How many times have you been deceived by a dream? When are you going to understand that the dream is not real? Because every day, when you awake in the morning, you know it was not real. But again you sleep and you dream and again it becomes real. When you are asleep the dream appears to be real. The dream appears to be real in the same proportion as you are asleep.

If you become a little alert then the mind is no longer real and the dream is no longer real. When one becomes perfectly awakened, when one becomes a buddha, then the mind is no longer real. The morning has come. You have become awakened. That is the meaning of the word BUDDHA—one who has awakened. Now the body is real, now the soul is real, but mind has disappeared. Mind is a twilight phenomenon.

Nikolai Berdyayev says in his autobiography: ‘I am very much afraid of the twilight time, when it is neither day nor night. It frightens me.’ When I read it I was puzzled about why he should be troubled by the twilight. It is so beautiful—when the day is no more and the night has not come yet. But he is right. He does not mean only the twilight, he means all twilight phenomena.

Mind is a twilight phenomenon, neither body nor soul. A little reality has been imparted by the soul and a little reality has been imparted by the body. Mind is borrowed—something of the soul and something of the body. It is just midway; it is neither this nor that. And philosophy lives in the mind, hence philosophy lives in illusion. Dreams can be beautiful, illusions can be tremendously sweet.

You ask me: ‘Why do great philosophers and so forth, say beautiful things and yet remain such a mess?’
By saying beautiful things you cannot sort out the mess, it is not so easy and not so cheap. If you sort out the mess, if you want to get beyond the mess, you will have to do some real work—that’s what Gurdjieff used to call it. He used to call his system ‘the work.’ Real work is needed.

Beautiful aspirations, poetry, beautiful philosophies can console, but that is not going to help. It is as if somebody is hungry and you go on talking about delicious food; as if somebody is hungry and you give him a menu beautifully printed; somebody is hungry and you give him a cookbook to read. That is exactly what philosophy is. Philosophy is a menu. It talks about food and sometimes it can start your saliva flowing. Even thinking about a lemon, juices start moving. Philosophy affects people, because people live in the mind. But that is not going to satisfy.

I have heard: A philosopher went to the bus station to catch a bus, but found he was early. He saw a little fortune-telling machine so he put a nickel in, and a little card came out that said: You are John Jones—you are sixty-five years old, you are a great philosopher, and you are on your way to Chicago on a business trip.
He said, ‘I don’t believe this machine. I can’t believe that this machine knows this information. There must be someone behind it.’ So he put another nickel in and another card came out saying: You are still John Jones, you are still a great philosopher, you are still sixty-five years old—and you are still on your way to Chicago on a business trip.
‘I just don’t believe it,’ said the man again, as he put another nickel in. This time a card came out saying: You are still John Jones, you are still a great philosopher, you are still sixty-five years old, you are still on your way to Chicago—but you’ve fooled around and missed your bus.
Philosophy is a fooling around—and mind you, you will miss your bus.

Just thinking is not going to help; it is a luxury. You can rest and you can think and you can spin theories and you can make castles in Spain and you can dream beautiful dreams. These are all childish.

But if you can be logical, if you can be consistent with words, if you have a certain capacity and skill with words you can feel very much satisfied. You can start feeling that you have the key, that you know.

The pet shop delivery boy was not exactly the brightest lad in the world. One day he was asked to deliver a pet rabbit to Mrs. Jones, Route 2, Box 4.
‘You had better write that down in case I forget it,’ said the boy.
Slipping the address into his pocket he started off on his errand. Every few minutes he glanced at the address and said, ‘I know where I’m going: Mrs. Jones, Route 2, Box 4.’
Everything went smoothly until he hit a crater in the road. The truck he was driving landed in a ditch and the rabbit began to run for its life across an open field.
The boy stood there laughing uproariously. When asked by a passer-by what was so funny he said, ‘Did you see that crazy rabbit running across that field? He doesn’t know where he’s going because I’ve got the address in my pocket.’

All philosophy is like that. It is not concerned with reality. Philosophers think they know the address of God. They don’t know, all they know is rubbish. It is all their own fantasy. 

To know God one has to become religious. There are only two ways to know the reality: if you are interested in the objective reality, become a scientist; if you are interested in the subjective reality, become religious. That’s why philosophy is disappearing by and by. In the future there is a possibility that there may be no philosophy at all, or it may only be in the madhouses. Science has taken the bigger part of it. Many questions that used to be thought philosophical are philosophical no longer. Science has taken them over, they don’t have any philosophy about them anymore. Science knows the exact answer. Philosophy can exist only in the twilight when the exact answer is not known. So the major part, the objective part, has been taken over by science. And the other part, the other half, has always been taken by the mystics—the Sufis, the Hasids, the Zen people. Philosophy is dying. Now it has nothing to think about. The mystic knows what subjective reality is and the scientist knows what objective reality is—what is left for the philosopher? There is nothing much left. Philosophy has no future. It had a glorious past, but it has no future. Out of philosophy, two systems have arisen which are more relevant: science and religion. Philosophy is a primitive approach, a magical approach. When you don’t know anything, you need to think about it. That thinking gives you a kind of substitute; it feels good that at least you know something. Either science will take it away from philosophy, or religion will take it away from philosophy. Both are decisive. The future is with science and religion, and the final future will be a new kind of approach which will be religio-scientific. The ultimate future will be where science and religion meet and disappear into a new kind of system, a new kind of synthesis. That will be the greatest day in the history of human consciousness.

Just the other night an old French poet took SANNYAS. I gave him the name Ananda Kavishwar. It means ‘great poet of bliss.’ He was asking me when the revolution was coming. Of course, he is French, so he thinks in terms of revolution. He is very old, must be beyond seventy, but a Frenchman is after all a Frenchman—they don’t grow old. ‘When is the revolution coming?’ I would like to tell him that this is the revolution—what I can call real revolution—when science and religion meet and disappear into one metaphysics, into one synthesis. That will put humanity into a totally new kind of light. That will bring a new harmony into the world. That will help all schizophrenia to disappear—because body and soul are two realities. I am saying two, because still science and religion are separate. But in fact, they are not two.

The body is the visible soul and the soul is the invisible body. They are not really two—they appear to be two because in between them stands the mind. Once the mind disappears then the division disappears, then all demarcation disappears, then there is no possibility of deciding where body ends and where soul begins, then they melt and merge into one. That one has been called God by Sufis. Body and soul have disappeared into each other, they don’t exist separately. It is mind just standing in between that keeps them separate, that divides and defines them. Once philosophy is gone, once mind is no longer there, who is there to divide the objective from the subjective? Then the outer and the inner will be one. They are one. The outer is the inner and the inner is the outer. Division disappears, duality disappears. Philosophy is dualistic.

That ultimate system for which no name exists yet, or, if you allow me, I can use the Indian term, DARSHAN—which may become the name for the ultimate synthesis. Darshan is not philosophy, as it is ordinarily translated in Indian universities. Books on darshan are called Indian philosophy. It is not true. It is very, very falsifying. Philosophy means love of thinking—SOPHIA means knowledge, wisdom, and PHILO means love—love of knowledge. Darshan means not philosophy but PHILOSIA—love of seeing—not love of thinking—love of realizing, an effort to attain a vision of the ultimate reality as it is. In that ultimate reality there are no divisions. It is one piece, it is one melody.

With that vision all schizophrenia disappears—otherwise man remains divided. When you divide the inner and the outer you divide man. When you say body, soul, you divide man. And when you divide man you create conflict, you create tension. Then there is always a war going on inside. I would like you to learn the ways to drop this war, this constant on-going war. The body is you and you are the body. Respect your body, love your body. Respect your soul, love your soul. And don’t create any conflict between the two. Listen silently and you will find that their voice is one. With that one voice there is peace, there is benediction.

 

[Breakingthewall]

@Osaid   

Interesting fragment from Osho, although paradoxical. he denies just what he is, a philosopher. He is part mystic, and great part philosopher.

I think Leo points to real mysticism, but there is something I don't understand, a barrier. Maybe it's attachment to words, to the mind. When Osho talks about the soul and the body, I would say that it is the infinite and limited experience. Leo, with his psychedelic trips, seeks openness to the infinite, and does so with great intensity. a philosopher doesn't do that

[Osaid]

On 11/17/2023 at 2:39 PM, Breakingthewall said:

Leo, with his psychedelic trips, seeks openness to the infinite, and does so with great intensity. a philosopher doesn't do that

He is philosophizing all of his experiences and creating some kind of metaphysical framework out of it. Very hard to see, I only noticed when I myself became enlightened. Any person who is enlightened will see it immediately, as did Ralston. He will probably deny it if you ask him because that is what he has to tell himself to keep that game going, now he says there is such a thing as "Absolute Concepts." (paraphrasing from what I remember)

If you want to see the difference between Leo and an actual enlightened person, it is perfectly exemplified in the exchange between Leo and Ralston in his newsletter:

https://mcusercontent.com/8a146e2bfe98efdd8c326d97a/files/08332a98-370d-44da-86ff-2c04a3ff1858/CHNL_Summer_2020.pdf?mc_cid=f12b90ff1c&mc_eid=3667cfd58d

On 11/17/2023 at 2:39 PM, Breakingthewall said:

he denies just what he is, a philosopher. He is part mystic, and great part philosopher.

Mysticism and enlightenment often get conflated with philosophy it seems.

Maybe Osho was philosophical to a degree, I don't know, but he did not deny his own partaking in that, that misses the point. He is simply saying it has nothing to do with God or "religion" as he defines it. Osho might make poetry, but that does not mean he believes it will help you reach God.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Osaid said:

He is philosophizing all of his experiences and creating some kind of metaphysical framework out of it. Very hard to see, I only noticed when I myself became enlightened. He will probably deny it if you ask him because that is what he has to tell himself to keep that game going, now he says there is such thing as "Absolute Concepts."

The feeling of a barrier I would say is his attachment to concepts. It seems that he puts the concept above him, not below him, like a tool that they really are. He deifies the concept a bit, that's why it's difficult to understand him, there are rigidities, straight lines, limits.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Osaid]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The feeling of a barrier I would say is his attachment to concepts. It seems that he puts the concept above him, not below him, like a tool that they really are. He deifies the concept a bit, that's why it's difficult to understand him, there are rigidities, straight lines, limits.

I edited my original post btw, might be worth reading through again.

The problem is that there is a barrier at all. If there is a barrier, that creates potential for corruption and delusion, which there is. You can't half-ass truth, and you can't refine it forever. You either get it or you don't.

Osho also talks about this phenomenon, which also occured in the past. This entire "levels of truth" thing, which Leo calls "higher degrees of consciousness."
 

Quote

Two women are talking in a tea room at four o’clock, over large gooey ice-cream sundaes and little sugary cakes. They have not seen each other since high-school days, and one is bragging about her very advantageous marriage.
‘My husband buys me whole new sets of diamonds when the ones I have get dirty,’ she says. ‘I never even bother to clean them.’
‘Fantastic!’ says the other women.
‘Yes,’ says the first, ‘we get a new car every two months. None of this hire-purchase stuff! My husband buys them outright, and we give them to the Negro gardener and houseman and like that for presents.’
‘Fantastic!’ says the other.
‘And our house,’ pursues the first, ‘well, what’s the use of talking about it? It’s just…’
‘Fantastic!’ finishes the other.
‘Yes, and tell me, what are you doing nowadays?’ says the first woman.
‘I go to Charm School,’ says the other.
‘Charm School? Why, how quaint! What do you learn there?’
‘Well, we learn to say ‘Fantastic’ instead of ‘Bullshit’!’

You can start calling bullshit ‘fantastic,’ but it makes no difference. You can learn religious, spiritual garbage… There are many people here too who are very expert in so-called esoteric jargon. They always talk of so many planes, so many bodies, so many centers… and they talk so seriously that it seems they know what they are talking about.
Avoid esoteric garbage! Avoid esoteric knowledge! It is not knowledge, it is just to befool people.
If you are interested in such things you should read the great literature that has been created by theosophists. Anything goes, you just have to talk in such a way that it seems otherworldly. It can neither be proved nor disproved. Now how can you prove how many planes there are? Seven or thirteen?

One man came to me. His religious sect believes in fourteen planes, and he had a chart, he had brought the chart. Mahavira has attained only to the fifth plane, Buddha to the sixth, Kabir, Nanak, to the ninth—because he was a Punjabi he had been a little generous with Nanak and Kabir. But his own Radhaswami guru, he has attained to the fourteenth! Even Buddha is just hanging around the sixth! And Mohammed, do you know where Mohammed is?—just the third! A Hindu and a Punjabi, how can you allow Mohammed to go beyond the third? He keeps him third-rate. Jesus he is a little more generous with—on the fourth; he places Jesus on the fourth. But his own guru—nobody knows about his guru—he has reached the fourteenth! The fourteenth is called SATCH-KHAND—the plane of truth.
So I asked him, ‘What about the other thirteen?’
He said, ‘They are just coming closer and closer to truth, only approximately true.’
Now, can there be an approximate truth? Either something is true or something is not true. Either I am here in the chair or I am not in the chair—I cannot be approximately in the chair. So ‘approximate truth’ is a beautiful name for a lie.
He had come to ask me what my opinion is about the fourteen planes.
I said, ‘I have reached the fifteenth. And just as you are asking about the planes, your Radhaswami guru asks me again and again how to enter into the fifteenth.’
He was very angry. He said, ‘Never heard about the fifteenth plane!’
I said, ‘How can you hear? Your guru has only reached the fourteenth, so you have heard about fourteen. But I have reached the fifteenth!’

Just nonsense! But it can be presented in such a way that it looks very spiritual. Avoid!

The resemblance is really striking. Even the comparison of different teachers, and who is more or less awake, exactly as Leo does today with Ralston and the others. History truly repeats itself, but this time with psychedelics.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Osaid

[Loveeee]

For most people spirituality is a side quest but that won't do

[Breakingthewall]

26 minutes ago, Osaid said:

The problem is that there is a barrier at all. If there is a barrier, that creates potential for corruption and delusion, which there is. You can't half-ass truth, and you can't refine it forever. You either get it or you don't.

I see clearly that barrier and I think: Leo is trapped, deceived. delirious.l but on the other hand I look at reality, at myself, and I am able to open myself, to realize the infinite, but I do not understand anything, neither how reality appears as it does nor why, sometimes but not permanently and I don't trust of my insight about the cosmos. But I think that it must be possible to go deeper and understand it. to be in states of total openness, without mind, in which understanding of the cosmos occurs. why not? He says that's what he's aiming for, that he delves into non-conceptual understanding to a level that no one else does, and maybe you can have a limited mind, somehow still trapped in the mental bubble but still reach very deep levels with psychedelics. This is not my case, I only look for openness, not understanding, understanding limits me, it traps me, but maybe this can change 

I will read the conversation with Ralston, interesting, thanks for sharing

Edited November 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Osaid]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:20 PM, Breakingthewall said:

I see clearly that barrier and I think: Leo is trapped, deceived. delirious.l but on the other hand I look at reality, at myself, and I am able to open myself, to realize the infinite, but I do not understand anything, neither how reality appears as it does nor why, sometimes but not permanently and I don't trust of my insight about the cosmos. But I think that it must be possible to go deeper and understand it. to be in states of total openness, without mind, in which understanding of the cosmos occurs. why not? He says that's what he's aiming for, that he delves into non-conceptual understanding to a level that no one else does, and maybe you can have a limited mind, somehow still trapped in the mental bubble but still reach very deep levels with psychedelics. This is not my case, I only look for openness, not understanding, understanding limits me, it traps me, but maybe this can change 

Understanding can occur, but the way that reality understands itself is not through philosophy, that is just how philosophy understands itself. Philosophy is a small glimpse, a part of the whole. You are bigger than that. You are the thing that contains concepts and generates concepts.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you can reach a point where you realize the type of understanding that Leo is doing is useless, and that it supersedes its function. You can't realize higher levels of truth forever through psychedelics, that is an error in your understanding of how reality and truth works. He is misinterpreting his results, kind of like how a scientist would, and then reporting it back. If you are not careful, and most people on this forum aren't, you will absorb the delusions he brings back.

On 11/17/2023 at 3:20 PM, Breakingthewall said:

I will read the conversation with Ralston, interesting, thanks for sharing

Yeah no problem.
 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Osaid

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

Understanding can occur, but the way that reality understands itself is not through philosophy

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 

Leo is not trying to understand the reality in a philosophical level, if it were, would be obvious. 

 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

He is misinterpreting his results

This yes, there is a distortion. I don't know exactly what because his explanation is vague now. Maybe the thing is just that he's no being totally honest 

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

. If you are not careful, and most people on this forum aren't, you will absorb the delusions he brings back.

Id say it's impossible, I listen the realization of others just as a couriosity. here and now is the reality alive, the only source of understanding. But I see a lot here that the people adopt the Leo's ideas and they think that they are their own realizations. 

 

[deci belle]

When its time to do so, one simply arrives at dropping off dropping off.

Dogen called this eliminating all traces of enlightenment. Bodhidharma was clear about the need to rinse off the "soap" of  realization.

Hongzhi said to simply accept one's (enlightening) function, take the forward step with hands open and share oneself freely with the world.

Since innate enlightening function does not depend on a sudden realization of the Absolute~ it should become obvious, through honest reflection, what does.

It is impossible to judge others who have gone beyond and returned in the most authentic fashion. Especially those who have managed to see through the delusion of seeing through delusion.

As for those who have not done so…

[Jehovah increases]

14 hours ago, Clarence said:

@Thought Art You make many assumptions without knowing me. I certainly am more mature, careful, and contemplating way more more than you can think.

@Jehovah increases I've been aware of the meaninglessness of life from a very early age and I have been living without meaning ever since. So I am well aware of how psychologically damaging that can be.

The positive is that I have no meaning left to lose, so I can only get some from deconstructing my mind even more and having very deep awakenings. I just don't understand why there aren't more people like me, but that is my bias/problem.

Well, there really is no meaning to anything. You may find the deeper you go into this work the less meaning there is to any of this. Or perhaps you may find meaning in No meaning. The only meaning there is what you give meaning to. 

[Thought Art]

@Jehovah increases lol yer gonna find a lot more than just nihilism.

 

You may just discover infinite love… shhh

Edited November 18, 2023 by Thought Art

[Jehovah increases]

38 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@Jehovah increases lol yer gonna find a lot more than just nihilism.

 

You just discover infinite love… shhh