To All Members

[Clarence]

As I was reading the Forum yesterday, I stumbled upon this post of Leo written in 2016 answering a comment:

Quote

That's good. That means Leo is changing.

In a few years, you will not recognize me at all. And many of you will of course justify that as "Finally, Leo has lost it." That's how it must be. High consciousness doesn't look like high consciousness from the low consciousness perspective, it looks like lower consciousness! OF COURSE! That's the only way low consciousness can persist! So I will be demonized more and more as I develop. That's part of my lot. You'll be demonized too if you make any drastic enough leap in consciousness.

The old Leo couldn't even fathom what God is. Neither do you.

You can come to a complete understanding. But the cost is a total annihilation of yourself. If you are squeamish about doing psychedelics, you're not nearly openminded enough to achieve this annihilation on your own. The degree of openmindedness required is ABSOLUTE!

If you ever awaken from life, you will understand why there is no hesitation. Everything you think of as "life" and everything you value as highest "knowledge" is but a dream.

Just realize how accurate it is.
Many of you think he is deluding himself and that only you have the Truth because you are enlightened or because you cherish enlightenment while Leo doesn't anymore.

But why did he stop pursuing enlightenment at some point?
Because he got lazy and uninterested and stumbled upon a lower form of consciousness which motivated him to give it up?
Or because he stumbled upon a higher form of consciousness making him realize how far from the Truth enlightenment has always been and how unworthy of a pursuit it was for understanding and awakening to all of reality ?

Why don't you seriously ponder that - and take the leap to verify that for yourself, doing whatever has to be done to get it. Why are you scared of psychedelics? And why are you scared of dropping your beliefs and to question again your entire experience and enlightenment for a while just to check? It really looks like a lot of you are scared of realizing that you are wrong.

Obviously, you don't admit that reason to yourself, you are too convince of being right to even allow yourself to question anymore, to allow yourself to explore psychedelics because you consider them as impure and unworthy of what is… but how can you say that if you haven't done the work to properly use them. You have no way to know. You only have believes and inaccuracies.

Is there at least one of you who is still OPENMINDED enough to seriously investigate that? That is my question, and I genuinely wonder. Is there at least one other person on this Forum doing that or willing to do that in a serious manner, especially one of those convinced to be right on Truth but disproving Leo? Do any of you still question yourself and willing to take the leap to use psychedelics?

If you are not doing that or willing to do that, your goal has never been to reach a complete understanding of reality and you do not have the Truth. Which is fine, but you are missing something. Something big. And you are deluding yourself and others.

[Razard86]

Your kind of late to the party. This was already discussed. I would offer you the opposite perspective, how would you know you are right in what you say? Do you understand why others would disagree with you? It's easy to take a stance without understanding its opposite, can you say you truly understand the opposite? If you don't then you are actually doing the opposite of what Leo posted.

There is a reason Leo apologized, when you get to high, life will bring you low because there is no difference between high and low. Be careful of your biases, that is where delusion resides.

[ivankiss]

If you are a serious seeker, you will never latch onto a single teacher and follow him blindly. Sooner or later, it should become obvious to you, that no teacher can take you all the way. They can, however, lead you down the wrong path, if you are careless enough.

Awakening is a natural occurrence. It is good to have some guidelines laid down, maps and pointers, methods and practices, theories and all that...

But the one and only true way is always going to be your way. It is the scariest, most challenging, bust also the most rewarding way.

 

Leo is a great teacher. His teaching are nowhere nearly devoid of delusion. But if filtered and used correctly, it can all be very helpful.

It's just assistance. Shining your way. You are the one who has to walk down the road. 

 

"The answer cannot be found it the writings of others, or the words of a trained mind"

 

[Clarence]

@Razard86 I am not so late. The same stuff are being discussed over and over again. And this message is basically for me, as I am wondering how many other people here really desire to reach the highest levels of understanding.

I know that he is right in what he says because I am doing the work he's teaching. I speak from my direct experience with psychedelics. Leo's not merely the teachers, the psychedelics are.

I've been reading from other teachers as well, but none of them come close to what he teaches. I've even lived in a buddhist monastery during my quest towards enlightenment when it was the deepest stuff I knew of. So I've looked into other places.

I understand that others disagree because they had awakenings/enlightenment experiences/or are enlightened, and they qualify that experience as Absolute. What they've reached is so Absolute and final that psychedelics sound unnecessary and even delusory to use. Some say that they can't get you to the Truth, that only the practice without any substances can get you to it.

On top of that, the states reached on psychedelics cannot be maintained and there always is something more profound to experience… and as that is the case, psychedelics can't Awaken anyone.

On the main lines, that is how I understand the opposition.

I don't negate that - that they can't make you low. I don't say that path will make anyone happy. Understanding reality is not the same thing as following a path to reach happiness.

 

@ivankiss That is right, I don't follow him blindly either.

The post is not about telling others to believe Leo or any other teacher, it is about questioning again if they have used psychedelics in a correct manner before demonizing them and telling that awakening can't be done through them.

I do think that people can awaken (become enlightened) without them, but the degree of awakening and understanding is far from the one you can get with the use of psychedelics. That is just the point of my message, and the reason why I'm asking how many others want to reach the deepest realizations.

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Clarence said:

@Razard86 I am not so late. The same stuff are being discussed over and over again. And this message is basically for me, as I am wondering how many other people here really desire to reach the highest levels of understanding.

I know that he is right in what he says because I am doing the work he's teaching. I speak from my direct experience with psychedelics. Leo's not merely the teachers, the psychedelics are.

I've been reading from other teachers as well, but none of them come close to what he teaches. I've even lived in a buddhist monastery during my quest towards enlightenment when it was the deepest stuff I knew of. So I've looked into other places.

I understand that others disagree because they had awakenings/enlightenment experiences/or are enlightened, and they qualify that experience as Absolute. What they've reached is so Absolute and final that psychedelics sound unnecessary and even delusory to use. Some say that they can't get you to the Truth, that only the practice without any substances can get you to it.

On top of that, the states reached on psychedelics cannot be maintained and there always is something more profound to experience… and as that is the case, psychedelics can't Awaken anyone.

On the main lines, that is how I understand the opposition.

I don't negate that - that they can't make you low. I don't say that path will make anyone happy. Understanding reality is not the same thing as following a path to reach happiness.

 

@ivankiss That is right, I don't follow him blindly either.

The post is not about telling others to believe Leo or any other teacher, it is about questioning again if they have used psychedelics in a correct manner before demonizing them and telling that awakening can't be done through them.

I do think that people can awaken (become enlightened) without them, but the degree of awakening and understanding is far from the one you can get with the use of psychedelics. That is just the point of my message, and the reason why I'm asking how many others want to reach the deepest realizations.

You are not listening, because you have am axe it grind. Did you know Leo made a post this year saying he realizes even more deeply why psychedelics aren't for everyone and why they are demonized? Did you know he almost accidentally killed himself?

Nope. Which is why I said you are late. What you just posted has already been discussed. Alot, of you new users would do well to look up our old threads. 

Alot of yall jump in and discuss topics we already ran into the ground. 

[Thought Art]

@Clarence Just be careful man. You’ve already made some posts that make it seem like your obsessed with Leo in a neurotic and unhealthy way.

I think psychedelics are good tools. Just, don’t go destroying your life on some fantasy you’ll find God. Go slow, be deliberate and careful. 
 

Leo can be very convincing. 
 

The videos are recordings and he doesn’t know you. 
 

What you decide to do is up to you.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Thought Art

[Osaid]

The idea that enlightenment is a belief that can be dropped and reinvestigated is very funny. 

Certainly, that is probably how your awakenings feel. Awakenings require investigation, contemplation, philosophy. They need to be refined over time. Changed over time. They become more radical over time, as Leo says and exemplifies. Unfortunately a big red herring though.

If enlightenment is an idea or belief for you, that is fine, but do not mistake that with enlightenment.

[lostingenosmaze]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Did you know Leo made a post this year saying he realizes even more deeply why psychedelics aren't for everyone and why they are demonized? Did you know he almost accidentally killed himself?

But unironically pls 🙏

[Thought Art]

@lostingenosmaze One was a blog post, and the part where he almost killed himself he said it in his poetic realization of God video 

[UnbornTao]

Focus on your own work.

[Thought Art]

17 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Focus on your own work.

True

[Inliytened1]

9 hours ago, Clarence said:

As I was reading the Forum yesterday, I stumbled upon this post of Leo written in 2016 answering a comment:

Just realize how accurate it is.
Many of you think he is deluding himself and that only you have the Truth because you are enlightened or because you cherish enlightenment while Leo doesn't anymore.

But why did he stop pursuing enlightenment at some point?
Because he got lazy and uninterested and stumbled upon a lower form of consciousness which motivated him to give it up?
Or because he stumbled upon a higher form of consciousness making him realize how far from the Truth enlightenment has always been and how unworthy of a pursuit it was for understanding and awakening to all of reality ?

Why don't you seriously ponder that - and take the leap to verify that for yourself, doing whatever has to be done to get it. Why are you scared of psychedelics? And why are you scared of dropping your beliefs and to question again your entire experience and enlightenment for a while just to check? It really looks like a lot of you are scared of realizing that you are wrong.

Obviously, you don't admit that reason to yourself, you are too convince of being right to even allow yourself to question anymore, to allow yourself to explore psychedelics because you consider them as impure and unworthy of what is… but how can you say that if you haven't done the work to properly use them. You have no way to know. You only have believes and inaccuracies.

Is there at least one of you who is still OPENMINDED enough to seriously investigate that? That is my question, and I genuinely wonder. Is there at least one other person on this Forum doing that or willing to do that in a serious manner, especially one of those convinced to be right on Truth but disproving Leo? Do any of you still question yourself and willing to take the leap to use psychedelics?

If you are not doing that or willing to do that, your goal has never been to reach a complete understanding of reality and you do not have the Truth. Which is fine, but you are missing something. Something big. And you are deluding yourself and others.

Let me present yet another perspective.   Because yours is simply a perspective- as is Leo's.  What if he was just a character implanted in your dream by you, to awaken you - by any means.  And that your awakening is completely sovereign.   Meaning it does not have to follow his awakening.  It is yours.   And that once you awaken, be it mediation, spontaneously, or via psychedelics- that your awakening is Absolute.   And that Leo can then be dismissed or let go of as simply a breadcrumb leading you to the Absolute. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Razard86]

21 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let me present yet another perspective.   Because yours is simply a perspective- as is Leo's.  What if he was just a character implanted in your dream by you, to awaken you - by any means.  And that your awakening is completely sovereign.   Meaning it does not have to follow his awakening.  It is yours.   And that once you awaken, be it mediation, spontaneously, or via psychedelics- that your awakening is Absolute.   And that Leo can then be dismissed or let go of as simply a breadcrumb leading you to the Absolute. 

There you go destroying the fantasy....LOL. Keep it up and you may get more ego backlash directed at you than me. 

[Carl-Richard]

It's true that you can't know what psychedelics are before you have tried them. But does that mean you should recommend them? Two different questions.

[Inliytened1]

42 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

There you go destroying the fantasy....LOL. Keep it up and you may get more ego backlash directed at you than me. 

Wise man: "There's more to go, you haven't reached the end yet."

Buddha: " Hmm..are you me?"

Wise man: "I am."

Buddha: "then you'll understand when I tell you I've reached God realization"

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Clarence]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You are not listening, because you have am axe it grind. Did you know Leo made a post this year saying he realizes even more deeply why psychedelics aren't for everyone and why they are demonized? Did you know he almost accidentally killed himself?

Nope. Which is why I said you are late. What you just posted has already been discussed. Alot, of you new users would do well to look up our old threads. 

Alot of yall jump in and discuss topics we already ran into the ground. 

Yes, I know psychedelics are not for everyone and that he nearly killed himself. Though, that is not the point of my message. I think you're the one who's not listening.

I pretty much don't care about convincing you of anything. I just wonder if some people are interested in going much deeper. I personally don't see that being discussed a lot. What I see being discussed a lot is all the reasons why people won't or don't want to go deeper.  

 

5 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Clarence Just be careful man. You’ve already made some posts that make it seem like your obsessed with Leo in a neurotic and unhealthy way.

I've grown out of that. It was a short passage. 

 

2 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

Focus on your own work.

Right, though I can still wonder if someone else also wants to reach the deepest realizations and understandings one can have (in Leo's sense, not to argue with what is deep).

The reason I was asking was mostly to check if I was right to feel one of the few if not the only one doing that. I must say it would have been even more exciting to hear the opposite from one of the person doubting or disregarding all of this the most.

But if that never happens, that's okay. I don't care about fighting and arguing. Which explain why I'm not very active on the forum (which doesn't mean I don't read it).

 

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Let me present yet another perspective.   Because yours is simply a perspective- as is Leo's.  What if he was just a character implanted in your dream by you, to awaken you - by any means.  And that your awakening is completely sovereign.   Meaning it does not have to follow his awakening.  It is yours.   And that once you awaken, be it mediation, spontaneously, or via psychedelics- that your awakening is Absolute.   And that Leo can then be dismissed or let go of as simply a breadcrumb leading you to the Absolute. 

I agree with what you're saying, I've had awakenings and breakthroughs. They were so profound that they made me realize that they couldn't be achieved/haven't been achieved through simple practices like meditation.

In my opinion, you can't know whether I am right or wrong because because you haven't properly used psychedelics to verify that.

And at the same time, you can argue that I can't know either how your awakening is like because I haven't reached a similar kind of awakening … so I guess the discussion is endless.

Though the chances are still higher that someone Absolutely awakened (let's say) get even deeper realizations through psychedelics, than it is for me to reach some Absolute/final enlightenment.

But who cares in the end. No one is here, but Me, or You.

 

59 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

It's true that you can't know what psychedelics are before you have tried them. But does that mean you should recommend them? Two different questions.

Depends on the objective. If the objective is to reach a complete understanding of all of reality, it would be silly not to recommend them. Though it doesn't mean that they will act properly on everyone, especially on those who don't do the work, as Leo says, of deconstructing their mind. It certainly doesn't mean either that they can only bring positive things. Though I don't think anyone here believes that about them.

[Thought Art]

@Clarence It was pretty recent though. Which suggests an immaturity. An immaturity that I doubt is cleared up. 
 

I sincerely hope you tread carefully. Please be very careful. Take breaks and go slow. 
 

You are over consuming Leo’s work and may benefit by taking a break and contemplating more. 
 

When I read a post like this thread it just reeks of immaturity and imbalance. That’s my opinion. Please be careful.
 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Thought Art

[Jehovah increases]

Leo wrote this some time ago. Be aware of how psychologically dangerous it is to strip all meaning from your life. The consequences of a total loss of meaning in your life are much more serious in practice than they seem in theory. Without self-constructed meaning, there's very little reason to live, unless perhaps you're massively Awake.

[Clarence]

@Thought Art You make many assumptions without knowing me. I certainly am more mature, careful, and contemplating way more more than you can think.

@Jehovah increases I've been aware of the meaninglessness of life from a very early age and I have been living without meaning ever since. So I am well aware of how psychologically damaging that can be.

The positive is that I have no meaning left to lose, so I can only get some from deconstructing my mind even more and having very deep awakenings. I just don't understand why there aren't more people like me, but that is my bias/problem.

[Razard86]

7 minutes ago, Clarence said:

@Thought Art You make many assumptions without knowing me. I certainly am more mature, careful, and contemplating way more more than you can think.

@Jehovah increases I've been aware of the meaninglessness of life from a very early age and I have been living without meaning ever since. So I am well aware of how psychologically damaging that can be.

The positive is that I have no meaning left to lose, so I can only get some from deconstructing my mind even more and having very deep awakenings. I just don't understand why there aren't more people like me, but that is my bias/problem.

If you were aware of no meaning...TRULY...you wouldn't even be on here. That's what you don't understand. You cannot separate awareness and being. A being that is truly meaningless....has no appearance. You appear on here, because you are sharing meaning no different than the rest of us.