There are no positive or negative thoughts, good or bad feelings, etc.

[Breakingthewall]

9 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Look at your hand. You have no fucking clue what that 'thing' right there is. In fact, it's not even a thing. It's not a part of some body of some human on some planet... Please be aware that those are all just thoughts arising as you are observing 'your hand'. 

That's all fine until a guy comes with a hammer and hits you in the hand. 

9 hours ago, ivankiss said:

You label a feeling good or bad. The same way you label your hand or whatever else. It's all just thoughts. No reality to any of it beyond that. Although it really, really might seem like there is

Yes is just a thought but that thought arises because it is supported by a real experience, that is why all humans have those thoughts and if you want to detach yourself from them, and do like the monk who burns himself with gasoline and remains motionless, you have to make a sustained effort for an entire time. life meditating 10 hours a day 30 years. It seems a bit forced, doesn't it? 

9 hours ago, ivankiss said:

You label a feeling good or bad. The same way you label your hand or whatever else. It's all just thoughts. No reality to any of it beyond that.

I think that the thoughts arise because a reality beyond, Human programming comes as standard, it is largely genetic, it is the structure of life. You can deform it and go against it like the bonze monk, but it seems more natural to accept it and flow with it.

[ivankiss]

5 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

You're dreaming "actuality".

thoughts are as real as no thoughts.

you just can get stuck in whatever "actuality".

where does thoughts come ? where is the source ? 

A thought is consciousness too, of course. So is feeling and perception. But it is not consciousness in its 'purest form'. In that sense, thought is in the way.

Actuality cannot be dreamed of. Dreams occur within actuality.

5 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@ivankiss Dualities exist! 

It's the same as getting really, really drunk. It is possible, yes, but it's not what being sober is. It's not what clarity is. 

Same way, it is possible to hallucinate duality, but it is not what actuality is. Not truth.

Truth or actuality is only ever pure, direct, undisturbed, unlimited, undivided, untouched consciousness.

It is conscious of NO THING. It is just consciousness.

 

 

[ivankiss]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

That's all fine until a guy comes with a hammer and hits you in the hand. 

Again, go back to the first two comments.

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes is just a thought but that thought arises because it is supported by a real experience, that is why all humans have those thoughts

That's just more thoughts lol. Can you see how you immediately came up with a story as to why thoughts arise? That all humans have the same experience, etc. That's all just fantasy. 

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think that the thoughts arise because a reality beyond, Human programming comes as standard, it is largely genetic, it is the structure of life. You can deform it and go against it like the bonze monk, but it seems more natural to accept it and flow with it.

There is nothing wrong with thinking. It is just God being creative. But if you cannot tell a difference between a thought and actuality... you are anything but awake.

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

There is nothing wrong with thinking. It is just God being creative. But if you cannot tell a difference between a thought and actuality... you are anything but awake.

I think it is a superficial interpretation to make a distinction between reality and thoughts. Thoughts are nothing more than the human structured mental manifestation of the reality that it means to be human. I can stop my thoughts, go beyond them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to escape the reality of what it means to be human.

If you tell me: what you just said are just thoughts. Then I will answer you that everything we say is that, if you prefer we don't talk and sit down to meditate, but we are talking.

I know that thoughts are not reality in the sense of the meaning of the thoughts, but thoughts are real.  it seems nonsense to me that: being human is just a thought. It is not like this . Thought emerges from the fact of being human, not the other way around. You can stop thinking and you will continue to be human, a human who does not think. The key is to understand what thought is and use it, not be a prisoner of it. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Thought Art]

@ivankiss Part of nonduality is duality. 
 

It’s like I see a cars driving by.

you say “Nothing is there” and get hit by the cars and suffering imaginable pain. I just use the cross walk. 

Sure, reality is consciousness but in this dream there is dualities. There is a way of being. 
 

I can’t help but feel that when you’re sitting on your computer typing this stuff you feel a pious excitement. But, in reality you don’t live like there is no humans, no reality. 
 

Playing a video game “it’s just pixels man, it’s just pixels” 

“Yeah I know but if your playing the game there’s like, stuff you can do you know?”

This conversation likely won’t go anywhere. No longer replying.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

It's the same as getting really, really drunk. It is possible, yes, but it's not what being sober is. It's not what clarity is. 

Same way, it is possible to hallucinate duality, but it is not what actuality is. Not truth.

Truth or actuality is only ever pure, direct, undisturbed, unlimited, undivided, untouched consciousness.

It is conscious of NO THING. It is just consciousness.

 

 

Those are just thoughts. sober vs drunk is a duality. clarity vs lack of clarity is a duality. Your so full of it. 
 

Only dualities that serve my pious non-dual dogma are real.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Thought Art

[ivankiss]

4 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think it is a superficial interpretation to make a distinction between reality and thoughts. Thoughts are nothing more than the human structured mental manifestation of the reality that it means to be human.

Not being able to tell a difference between a thought and actuality, imagination and reality... is what made you 'fall asleep' in the first place.

42 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I can’t help but feel that when you’re sitting on your computer typing this stuff you feel a pious excitement. But, in reality you don’t live like there is no humans, no reality. 

I live a very ordinary life. I go to work, I'm working on my business and music career, I have a girlfriend that I fight with very often, I exercise, I make art.... Very down to earth stuff. But that does not change the fact that ultimately that's all just fantasy. I have never experienced a single thing, ever. And never will. 

37 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Those are just thoughts. sober vs drunk is a duality. clarity vs lack of clarity is a duality. Your so full of it. 
 

It's an analogy dude. 

But yes, anything and everything I say to you or anyone else here is just more thoughts. More 'duality'. But the important thing, which you both don't see, is that I'm only pointing towards the one real 'thing' in the existence, using language. 

You are both denying the obvious. Which is rather stupid. You are conscious right now. Cannot deny that. That's all there is. Anything more than that, is fantasy. 

You are both selling me all kinds of stories about humans and other nonsense, and I'm just here saying that you are directly conscious right now. That's actuality. Any explanation that you come up with, any idea, any belief... is not actuality. Not pure, direct consciousness. But one stained with a thought.

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by ivankiss

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, ivankiss said:

Not being able to tell a difference between a thought and actuality, imagination and reality... is what made you 'fall asleep' in the first place.

you overestimate thoughts. Do you think monkeys are awake because they don't have conceptual thought? What we are is a pattern of existence, a structure, an energetic framework. the whole experience is that. waking up is opening that framework. Thoughts are only a superficial manifestation, you can be completely detached from thoughts and still not break the limitation of experience.

There are many unconscious layers of barriers, it is something innate. If you want to completely open the now you have to understand deeply and non-conceptually what you are. This understanding is neither thinkable nor transmittable. Psychedelics are a great help since by dissolving structures they make you understand little by little what they are.

[ivankiss]

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Do you think monkeys are awake because they don't have conceptual thought?

In a certain sense, yes, monkeys are far more awake (present) than any sleepwalking human, trying to climb the corporate ladder - for example.

(but again, no monkeys and no humans. only consciousness)

17 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you want to completely open the now you have to understand deeply and non-conceptually what you are. 

Precisely.

Edited November 17, 2023 by ivankiss

[Thought Art]

@ivankiss I’m not denying consciousness. 
 

But the dream is what your experiences which is full of those dualities which I think paradoxically should be noted in discussion of nonduality.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Thought Art

[koops]

A nice way to frame is like this:

bad/negative emotion -> unpleaseant emotion

good/positive emotion -> pleasant emotion
 

If a hot chick is sucking your dick, is not good, its just pleasant.

If your mother dies and you feel sad, sadness not a bad emotion. You just label it 'bad' because is unpleasant and you would prefer to be happy.

This can lead to problems of suppression. The problem comes when you feel bad for feeling sadness.

If your mother dies, feel all the unpleasant emotions you want without judgement.

 

[Yimpa]

God is whatever the fuck it is.

Contemplate this.