Morality Is a test of how spiritual you are

[Andrea Bianca]

@Razard86 I've been on this group for more than 6 months, looking for someone to say this. Thank you so much for formulating your opinion so good on the morality subject, because I though I was the only one thinking like this. Thank you again and have a nice day! 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

4 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Even experiencing war, rape, etc doesn't compare. Why? You could imagine infinite rape and experience that.....get the picture? There is no limit to the tortures you can imagine. Human reality suffering doesn't compare to the dark places an Infinite Mind can conjure up.

@Razard86 Imagine that shit is one thing. Incarnate into that, living through that is something I think no one here is capable of - just like that, just out of free will. So, as always, there is a vast gap between theory and practice in human cases. I sincerely advise you not to imagine things you would not want, especially those you do not know from your practice. The thing about wishes is that sooner or later, they come true. As God, you can experience infinite violence in all its spectrum - that is, from both sides, as a rapist and as a victim. I won't pursue this thread any longer.

[Princess Arabia]

51 minutes ago, An young being said:

If we imagine life is imaginary, all these thoughts can come into our mind:

Life isn't real. I don't have to care about whatever I do in this world. No need to be moral, no need to be following laws, no need to worry about death since I would become God after death etc.

You can do all these, but doing this will further pull us deep into the illusion by strengthening the ego.

No, it doesn't mean that, it means you don't have to do those things since you're not identified with the mind. You can still be an upright citizen and follow the laws because you understand that following it VS not following it is still a stance that you think it's all real. If I don't follow the law, I'm saying there is a law to not follow. I can still play the game and not identify with the game because I understand it's still just a game.

You are saying all that as your belief sytem not mine. 

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, An young being said:

Unconditional love on an absolute level triumphs everything, because that's what God is. But, when it becomes involved with ego ( like a mother's love to a child), then the equation becomes complicated and morality plays a role. But, fortunately we don't have to do the calculations, ( unless we are curious) the universe will take care of it. 

^^^^This is the deep wisdom. But notice this....its only the curious that realize that the universe is taking care of it. Right now on this forum thread we are the Universe discussing what is morality. By the way I do believe every individual must create their own morality, so do not think I am demonizing morality. So what is morality to me? I deem morality to be whatever is in alignment with Universal Will. That is morality to me. 

So then that creates a question? What is Universal Will? What is it up to? You see? A search for truth must include a desire to understand what Universal Will is? Morality as it is currently understood was just a half-hearted attempt to understand what Goodness is. Do not think reading my posts or anybody's posts is going to give you a clear cut answer. All of us will struggle from our perspective to be good, until a deep surrender and acceptance occurs.

The secret is everyone around you is in a struggle to be Good, some are dysfunctional at it and we call them Evil, and some are skilled and masters at it and we call them Good. That's all that is going on. But don't take my word for it, go discover if this is true for you. I proved it to myself both before and after Spirituality but through Spirituality I proved it ABSOLUTELY. 

With this said it makes PERFECT SENSE if you don't believe that because SUFFERING is the birth of evil. You cannot reconcile there is no evil when you are in the throes of suffering. You cannot walk up to a parent that lost their child to kidnapping and sex slavery and tell her it was for the benefit of the Universe that activity had to happen. They will call you a DEMON, and rightly so from their perspective. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

Morality is essential if you want to open yourself to the absolute, but it is an exclusively particular morality. You always know exactly what moral behavior is, what to do. This can be killing or stealing at a given moment, it can also be giving your life for someone, or picking up a piece of paper from the ground. It is obvious what you should do, reality tells you. If you do not behave in a perfectly aligned way, opening will be impossible.

[Razard86]

If you want a more grounded less complicated approach to the implementation of morality you can look at Martin Luther King. Notice the similarity in some of the stuff I have said about life. Jesus said it, Leo said it, Ghandi, etc. 

https://www.iwu.edu/mlk/page-5.html#:~:text="If a man has not,and exposes his moral defenses."

[Arthogaan]

Morality be like:

[An young being]

9 hours ago, Princess Arabia said:

No, it doesn't mean that, it means you don't have to do those things since you're not identified with the mind. You can still be an upright citizen and follow the laws because you understand that following it VS not following it is still a stance that you think it's all real. If I don't follow the law, I'm saying there is a law to not follow. I can still play the game and not identify with the game because I understand it's still just a game.

You are saying all that as your belief sytem not mine. 

Believing life is a game or even life is imaginary can be the best thing that ever happened to you or the worst thing ever based on the belief system you have. If you are taking the insight positively, then it's all well and good. But one aspect of Spirituality is recognising no belief ( including those derived out of experiences) is entirely true and that includes beliefs on  nature of reality as well. Labelling reality as imaginary can become a dangerous affair, especially when our  mind is not eqanimous or highly reactive. Even experiencing ego dissolution doesn't magically put an end to our monkey mind. It just gives a glimpse of the removal of the veil. And the monkey mind naturally creates numerous belief systems based on the experience, that's why we can see differing explanations for similar experiences. Labeling could be done for fun, but we need to recognise the effects the labelling has in our functioning from an outside view. It could easily delude us into suffering, if we aren't careful enough. That's where meditation comes into picture, it makes our mind non reactive, so that we can have all the awe in believing life is imaginary or whatever it is and still be unaffected by its repercussions.

[An young being]

8 hours ago, Razard86 said:

^^^^This is the deep wisdom. But notice this....its only the curious that realize that the universe is taking care of it. 

Yep, I am a curious guy too. The statement that the universe is taking care of it is a part of my belief system derived through my experiences. What I believe is that the universe balances out the good and bad, not through a moral lens, but through pleasure and suffering caused to ourselves ( intention ) and to others (action). Courts, religions, individuals and everything that creates moral laws are part of the experience and may affect us in some way, but at the end, it all comes to what happens inside our mind. We can escape the cycle to some extent,if we become non reactive, by not creating any pleasure or suffering in our mind created because of our actions or non action. Still, the result of our actions affecting others keep us within the cycle, either providing pleasure or suffering. 

[Someone here]

I don't get it . Can someone please explain "Absolute Goodness " for me ?

How is beheading a chicken good ?do you fathom the degree suffering that a cow feels when it gets slaughtered? 

Imo..there is good and there is bad. 

Good =happiness and Morals. 

Bad=suffering and lack of morality. 

[Razard86]

On 11/14/2023 at 0:34 AM, An young being said:

Yep, I am a curious guy too. The statement that the universe is taking care of it is a part of my belief system derived through my experiences. What I believe is that the universe balances out the good and bad, not through a moral lens, but through pleasure and suffering caused to ourselves ( intention ) and to others (action). Courts, religions, individuals and everything that creates moral laws are part of the experience and may affect us in some way, but at the end, it all comes to what happens inside our mind. We can escape the cycle to some extent,if we become non reactive, by not creating any pleasure or suffering in our mind created because of our actions or non action. Still, the result of our actions affecting others keep us within the cycle, either providing pleasure or suffering. 

You got it. Nothing to add for me. 

[Razard86]

On 11/14/2023 at 6:41 AM, Someone here said:

I don't get it . Can someone please explain "Absolute Goodness " for me ?

How is beheading a chicken good ?do you fathom the degree suffering that a cow feels when it gets slaughtered? 

Imo..there is good and there is bad. 

Good =happiness and Morals. 

Bad=suffering and lack of morality. 

We've explained it ad nauseum at this point. You don't want to accept it. This is not something that can be logically understood. Seek to raise your awareness of what is going on. You are in India, one of the most Spiritually Deep Countries in the World. You have plenty of opportunities.

[Thought Art]

@Someone here Bro, you’re so deeply biased you have no clue what spirituality is. Sorry to be blunt.

If I’m at war killing someone may be good. If I’m at war not donating to the country in at war with may be good. 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

Lol OK.

[Thought Art]

@Someone here Definitely review the above lecture for contemplation. 
 

Ken Wilbur talks about lines of development which may be useful as well. 
 

and I’m open minded to different perspectives and seemingly paradoxes on this subject

[Princess Arabia]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Lol OK.

Lol seeing that sexy red dress, and that knife made you surrender. You're like, 'yes ma'am'.

[Thought Art]

On 2023-11-13 at 11:20 AM, Someone here said:

Exactly! You got it 

"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven."
(Luke 6:37)

This is what I am saying but… it’s not clicking for you yet though. 
 

Sorry btw if I’m being too blunt haha… 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Thought Art

[Someone here]

@Thought Art no worries bro .I know you mean good . But I'm just being honest about my understanding and where I am in the path .

To me..evil exists. It's obvious as day light.  

I need to contemplate few things like the importance of sex ...sleep and few metaphysical topics. 

Thank you 🙏 

[Thought Art]

This is a good one too

[Thought Art]

@Someone here Your understanding is limited and biased.

Evil is a belief and projection based on your perspective and biases.seems like your judging others to me and antithetical to that quote

Edited November 16, 2023 by Thought Art