What's the difference between a Nihilism and Enlightenment

[ivankiss]

Nihilism is ideology. Belief. Even if it pretends that it believes in nothing.

Enlightenment is just actuality.  

[Water by the River]

22 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Enlightenment is the love of Nihilism. Nihilism awakens to the meaningless of life and recoils in horror. An Enlightened person sees that true freedom is the lack of all meaning.

Little confusion of Absolute Truth and Relative Truth.... But hey, who cares if someone ruins his/her life on a relative level following such statements. Lets proclaim Enlightenment is the love of Nihilism!

 

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Nihilism is ideology. Belief. Even if it pretends that it believes in nothing.

Enlightenment is just actuality.  

Belief and direct experience are one and the same. The only reason one experiences separation is because one believes it is separate. Enlightenment is a realization, a RECONTEXTUALIZATION, that shifts the whole experience from being one that is having experience to being experience. So you cannot separate ideology from actuality. If you could Spirituality would be so easy. Someone would say prove it to me that everything is ONE?

You'd look at them and say imagine this, then= INSTANT REALIZATION!! LOL. Majority of time that is not going to happen, because reality is LOVE. And for those that hate that word. Reality is CARE. The manifestation of care.

 

1 hour ago, Water by the River said:

Little confusion of Absolute Truth and Relative Truth.... But hey, who cares if someone ruins his/her life on a relative level following such statements. Lets proclaim Enlightenment is the love of Nihilism!

 

That's what you don't realize because you want to create conflict. Because you have chosen to be an adversary. Yes it is a confusion of Absolute Truth and Relative Truth, that is why nihilism exists.!!! On the journey when one awakens to lack of all meaning they can fall into despair and become nihilistic. This is because they have not become aware that the lack of all meaning=the creation of all meaning. 

Once they go through that path they realize oh there is no meaning outside what I construct and I LOVE IT!!! Absolute Truth And Relative Truth cannot be separated, but they can be misunderstood. Absolute Truth loves everything so yes Enlightenment is the love of Nihilism. Its the love of everything.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Razard86

[ivankiss]

7 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Belief and direct experience are one and the same. The only reason one experiences separation is because one believes it is separate. Enlightenment is a realization, a RECONTEXTUALIZATION, that shifts the whole experience from being one that is having experience to being experience. So you cannot separate ideology from actuality. If you could Spirituality would be so easy. Someone would say prove it to me that everything is ONE?

You'd look at them and say imagine this, then= INSTANT REALIZATION!! LOL. Majority of time that is not going to happen, because reality is LOVE. And for those that hate that word. Reality is CARE. The manifestation of care.

So much delusion dude. So much unnecessary complication and distortion. Barely any truth.

 

[Razard86]

6 hours ago, ivankiss said:

So much delusion dude. So much unnecessary complication and distortion. Barely any truth.

 

^^^^Of course from your perspective this must be so!! Because you are your own limit. You cannot see outside your own perspective until you do. It's delusion because you are locked into your perspective. I know what you are saying, but you don't understand what I am saying. So I wonder....who is MORE TRUE? The one that understands more perspectives? Or the one that understands less?

Notice...it is delusion to you, because you BELIEVE IT. Notice earlier you said nihilism is ideology, but now you say I speak delusion. How is that NOT an ideology? You see? You keep trying to separate it. You can't!!! Your experience and your belief are one and the same. Why do you think Spirituality is the pursuit of what is true in your experience? 

You think humanity didn't try their best to seek the truth? You think they just bullshitted their way to materialism? Such delusion!!! If it was that easy to find the truth....they would have found it!!! Why do you think people push psychedelics? Its to give them Enlightenment? Enlightenment shatters the current conceptualization they have of what reality is. That is EXPERIENCE!!!

Both believing you have experience and realizing you ARE EXPERIENCE is the same thing!!! But notice....you cannot understand this if you keep creating separation. As such you cannot understand me, no different than an unenlightened person cannot understand you. I understand you, but you don't understand me.

 

 

[Razard86]

I'll make this simple again....Reality is Absolutely Relative, this means it is equally true on all levels, this means it is also not equally true on all levels as well. It means it is Real. It mean it is Imaginary. It means it is whatever the hell it says it is from ITS PERSPECTIVE. THE END. 

That's all folks!!! Nothing to see here!!! I killed it all. Welcome to Death. Welcome to Life which is GROUND and YOU CREATE THE GROUND. The GROUND IS YOUR MAP. The GROUNDLESS IS REALITY. And that is it. 

So how do you search for truth on the relative domain. Whatever has the most frequency is what is most true for that moment in time. So in one era the times will say this is 70% true. Maybe 10 to 100 years later that is now 45% true and something else is 55% true. You see how it goes? So the absolute never changes but to experience itself it must include change. So the measuring stick of truth is frequency, pattern. But Reality must make the pattern hard to find and tricky so you actually have something to do. Otherwise....there is only DEATH. 

It's so obvious and simple. You only complicate it because what I speak robs you of the mystery of discovering it for yourself.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

again....Reality is Absolutely Relative, this means it is equally true on all levels, this means it is also not equally true on all levels as well.

I think the word truth is very incorrect to define reality. It involves things like: I know the truth, for example, that only I exist, as opposed to the lie, which is that others also exist. Both are relative and meaningless statements in terms of realizing the absolute.

The absolute is not the truth, it is seeing through the veil of experience, through the veil of the self. what you see is the totality of existence, the great infinite abyss alive. This is neither truth nor lie, the same as the self. They are two different ways to open yourself to the now, one limited, the other unlimited.

[Razard86]

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think the word truth is very incorrect to define reality. It involves things like: I know the truth, for example, that only I exist, as opposed to the lie, which is that others also exist. Both are relative and meaningless statements in terms of realizing the absolute.

The absolute is not the truth, it is seeing through the veil of experience, through the veil of the self. what you see is the totality of existence, the great infinite abyss alive. This is neither truth nor lie, the same as the self. They are two different ways to open yourself to the now, one limited, the other unlimited.

........So now you deny the word truth too???? Wow...well hey you doing your thing man. I'll give it to you, you are committed to the path of mystery. You are definitely a true mystic in that regard. 

[Razard86]

15 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think the word truth is very incorrect to define reality. It involves things like: I know the truth, for example, that only I exist, as opposed to the lie, which is that others also exist. Both are relative and meaningless statements in terms of realizing the absolute.

The absolute is not the truth, it is seeing through the veil of experience, through the veil of the self. what you see is the totality of existence, the great infinite abyss alive. This is neither truth nor lie, the same as the self. They are two different ways to open yourself to the now, one limited, the other unlimited.

For fun though I'll deconstruct your arguments. You said I think the word truth is very incorrect to define reality, but you have said over and over that Reality cannot be defined...but now you are saying truth is not a correct definition? So which is it? 

Then you say it is not a truth or a lie? So what is it?  What you don't realize is you gave a definition. Your definition is: it is seeing through the veil of experience, through the veil of the self. what you see is the totality of existence, the great infinite abyss alive.

So we can shorten it to this. You believe that reality is a great infinite abyss alive which is neither true or a lie. Also you believe it can be seen as well.

Now what you don't realize...is if it is neither true or a lie, it can never gain anything or become aware of anything because if its not true it cannot exist, and if its not a lie it cannot change. So you have denied both aspects of reality, this means you have now effectively gone ABSOLUTE DENIAL. Well Done!!!

Edited November 13, 2023 by Razard86

[Yimpa]

Truth is so truthful that it encompasses all lies and all truths as Truth.

[Razard86]

10 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

Truth is so truthful that it encompasses all lies and all truths as Truth.

I don't think you realize he is determined to be confused. He fears the destruction of all mystery. The more you make sense the more he will tell you that you are deluded and that not making sense is the truth...even though for him now he might as well throw that word away and a lie as well. Its crazy because delusion is a lie but he said that there is no truth or lie and even as crazy as he sounds I could even make it make sense because I am creative enough. But I won't, because it won't be easy to understand for others. 

But I'll give another pointer since people seem to be confused. Relative Imagination is human imagination. Close your eyes imagine an apple. Okay now look at an apple, that is Absolute Imagination. They are the same thing but one is limited the other is unlimited but notice they sit RIGHT ON TOP OF EACH OTHER. You can look at an apple and imagine an apple on top of the apple. 

Now the issue is you have certain people who don't yet understand that beliefs are =to physicality. I'll explain. Let's say there is a girl who dates 10 men and all of those men verbally insult her over and over and she takes on as a belief that all men do this. As long as she refuses to allow information contrary to this notion SHE WILL EXPERIENCE THIS AS TRUE. 

You say how do we know this? Come on anybody on spiritual path deals with this with people who have yet to awaken. All your beliefs are a reflection of how you currently experience reality. That is why there are so many claims of gaslighting which is to deny the said experience of another. So explain to me how you can actually believe that you can separate belief from experience? You can't!!! You will say yes I can I can shatter their belief with a different experience. You can!!! But then guess what? You still prove my point. Because if they change their mind its because they got a NEW EXPERIENCE so that belief is just reflecting that experience!!! But also notice, they can deny that experience also if they want!!! Now its delusion if you deny experience....so guess what...to deny someone's belief is NOT their experience is actually to deny experience!!! Because all of our beliefs are what we believe to be true....based on our experience.

You will say but I thought you said there were delusions, yes and that is the only way we get confused. Only our denial of our experience is what causes confusion. If you deny nothing and accept everything....the you cannot be deluded. That is the game we are playing. 

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Your definition is: it is seeing through the veil of experience, through the veil of the self. what you see is the totality of existence, the great infinite abyss alive.

Its a definition that means nothing unless you already saw through the veil of experience. Just words to describe something that can't be described or thought

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

Now what you don't realize...is if it is neither true or a lie, it can never gain anything or become aware of anything because if its not true it cannot exist, and if its not a lie it cannot change

Truth implies that there is a lie. It means that you thought that reality was a certain way, and you realized that it is not like that, therefore what you thought was a lie, and now you know what the truth is. This cannot be applied to the absolute, because it is no more true, it is without limits. The relative is also true, with limits. If everything is true, it is redundant to say that it is.

When we talk about the truth, it means that you have realized that only you exist, that you are God, that you are creating reality. This cannot be applied to the absolute either, the absolute is the absence of limits and all of the above are limits. one is limit. any definition is. The ego doesn't like that, right? wants definition. That's why he likes so much: I'm God, I'm alone imagining reality. well that is a completely relative phrase, sorry for the ego

Edited November 13, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Razard86]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Its a definition that means nothing unless you already saw through the veil of experience. Just words to describe something that can't be described or thought

Truth implies that there is a lie. It means that you thought that reality was a certain way, and you realized that it is not like that, therefore what you thought was a lie, and now you know what the truth is. This cannot be applied to the absolute, because it is no more true, it is without limits. The relative is also true, with limits. If everything is true, it is redundant to say that it is.

When we talk about the truth, it means that you have realized that only you exist, that you are God, that you are creating reality. This cannot be applied to the absolute either, the absolute is the absence of limits and all of the above are limits. one is limit. any definition is. The ego doesn't like that, right? wants definition. That's why he likes so much: I'm God, I'm alone imagining reality. well that is a completely relative phrase, sorry for the ego

Truth doesn't imply anything but that it IS!!!! Truth doesn't need relative to IS, it needs relative to be a PARTICULAR IS!!!! That's all that's what you don't get. At this point you are lost in confusion. You keep saying stuff that is noncoherent. Truth implies NOTHING. Get it? It implies nothing, because it IS NOTHING.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

8 hours ago, Razard86 said:

^^^^Of course from your perspective this must be so!! Because you are your own limit. You cannot see outside your own perspective until you do. It's delusion because you are locked into your perspective. I know what you are saying, but you don't understand what I am saying. So I wonder....who is MORE TRUE? The one that understands more perspectives? Or the one that understands less?

Notice...it is delusion to you, because you BELIEVE IT. Notice earlier you said nihilism is ideology, but now you say I speak delusion. How is that NOT an ideology? You see? You keep trying to separate it. You can't!!! Your experience and your belief are one and the same. Why do you think Spirituality is the pursuit of what is true in your experience? 

You think humanity didn't try their best to seek the truth? You think they just bullshitted their way to materialism? Such delusion!!! If it was that easy to find the truth....they would have found it!!! Why do you think people push psychedelics? Its to give them Enlightenment? Enlightenment shatters the current conceptualization they have of what reality is. That is EXPERIENCE!!!

Both believing you have experience and realizing you ARE EXPERIENCE is the same thing!!! But notice....you cannot understand this if you keep creating separation. As such you cannot understand me, no different than an unenlightened person cannot understand you. I understand you, but you don't understand me.

 

 

I can definitely confirm you're enlightened, like a supra light tower enlightment of some kind, even the fishes boat from china are going to find the way eventually.

 

[AerisVahnEphelia]

I just realized the "books" of the futur is that, you're reading it right now, here is the book, you're reading one of his line just now.
 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Razard86 said:

 

 

7 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Truth doesn't imply anything but that it IS!!!! Truth doesn't need relative to IS, it needs relative to be a PARTICULAR IS!!!! That's all that's what you don't get. At this point you are lost in confusion. You keep saying stuff that is noncoherent. Truth implies NOTHING. Get it? It implies nothing, because it IS NOTHING.

awakening is realizing the substance of reality, to put it another way. this substance is indefinable and unthinkable.

The word truth implies knowing something, knowing that it is true as opposed to what is a lie. awakening is not on that plane, it does not mean that. It is a total opening to reality, which is partially closed so that a defined experience can occur. Truth is an idea of the mind, and the mind is something that is within reality. You can shout whatever you want and take all the mental turns you want, you will still be trapped in the mind.

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

I can definitely confirm you're enlightened, like a supra light tower enlightment of some kind, even the fishes boat from china are going to find the way eventually.

 

Yeah some want to keep the spiritual process mysterious, alluring, to allow the spiritual seeker to discover it on their own. I call this the indirect pointer and I realize its value. But I'm similar to Leo in that I believe if you want people to awaken easier stop making everything so complicated and simplify it. I even thought Leo wasn't direct enough so I aimed to come behind him and simplify it even more. But I won't lie his content does a good job, just like other Spiritual Teachers out there.

I believe Ram Dass is very good at speaking about how to embody compassion, I think Mooji is really good at being a living example of compassion, I believe Eckhart Tolle gave a really good explanation for how Free Will works. It took me a long time in grasping that one and I believe his explanation does a better job than Leo's even though both his Free Will videos are great. Leo's contribution that the materialization of reality is equivalent to WILL is a nice way of grounding the phrase "Everything is God's Will." 

To me the most important message is the only difference between God and a human is humans have bias God has no bias. Now what I discovered is there are two types of biases which obviously are ONE but we will separate to distinguish them. There is what I call conceptual bias which is just a perspective bias, then there is what I call experiential bias. The biggest bias the ego has is experiential bias. It does not feel sane to remove the physical barrier of separation between you and the world. It will feel like a violation worse than rape if God were to ever force a human to undergo it. 

The contrast we experience when we get used to something is pretty interesting to me. If you live in a room that has its temperature at 90 degrees (32.2 celcius) and you walk outside and its 0 degrees (-17.78 celcius) that experience will be jarring. Its the same when you take a very close-minded selfish person full of trauma and try to wake them up. You can't beat them over the head with a direct message. Some need the slow and steady mysterious message that beats around the bush. 

The All works through all, giving its diverse message I even realized the confused people are here for a reason to. They are here to help you train your discernment. The people that flip flop serve as a mirror of your own tendency to flip flop as more evidence of the importance of truth. Since you are your own authority you cannot take anything on as a belief in this work. Eventually doubt WILL CREEP IN. I speak from experience, even when I proved everything both conceptually and experientially my ego still tried to create more doubt. So I went balls to the wall and created a test individually for me that ended all doubt. So it's over, I cannot have doubt if I wanted too. I say this to say, no teacher can remove all doubt about Spiritual concepts and their validity only YOU can do it. It's why this work is so powerful it really teaches you how authority works at the highest level.

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Razard86 so you trying to create a super nice cool character that will improve love into the world ?

You think that's really a great story to hold on.. important gems you collected ?

what about making it about your own thing even more, I see potential for you beyond here, fine to train around the corner if you like, but there must be more good you might be able to build for the world.

Sure you're your own teacher in many way.

Another big story, but maybe don't get attached to it.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by AerisVahnEphelia

[Razard86]

19 minutes ago, AerisVahnEphelia said:

@Razard86 so you trying to create a super nice cool character that will improve love into the world ?

You think that's really a great story to hold on.. important gems you collected ?

what about making it about your own thing even more, I see potential for you beyond here, fine to train around the corner if you like, but there must be more good you might be able to build for the world.

Sure you're your own teacher in many way.

Another big story, but maybe don't get attached to it.

 

^^^That's definitely the idea. Everything you said is basically what I am doing. Every single word, so much....I wrote this myself to myself.

I'm open to suggestions. To the unknown I am am eternal beginner, making educated guesses. If anything I am unskilled in the department of uneducated guesses, going forth with reckless abandon.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Razard86

[AerisVahnEphelia]

@Razard86 Build your own boat and see you where the sea take you and when you reach the final land, burn it down !

there is plenty of seas where one can go beyond here, are you really into your best shape ?
is that real without a doubt ? aren't you a master already ?  

The universe is plotting for your success, you just not ready to bath in it fully yet.

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by AerisVahnEphelia