Why do PUAs tell us things that are absurdly oversimplified or just blatantly false?

[Yimpa]

14 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

The dots are connecting, slowly but surely

Also, no need to be hard on yourself. Learning to interact with women is no easy task. Be kind to yourself when you make mistakes. And don’t forget, women can also make mistakes.

It’s not about finding a relationship that is flawless, it’s about creating ones that are able to adapt to change and growth, despite the flaws.

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 11/13/2023 at 8:48 AM, NoSelfSelf said:

You already losing with being thirsty ,needy, desperate.

Good luck not being thirsty when you’re a high libido man and totally deprived of female physical contact for years upon years upon years, really destroys a guy inside. There’s no hiding the thirst because the moment you open a qt she already knows what you want. Needy and desperate on the other hand, those are concealable.

18 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve found that the girl will guide me on doing that organically, rather than me putting up a front to attract her.

I sure haven’t. I’ve found that girls will usually be as unhelpful as humanly possible in pickup 

On 11/13/2023 at 3:39 PM, The Renaissance Man said:

which if not solved leads you in behaving like a polite robot rather than a relatable human.

If anything I’ve made more progress with the polite robot than anything else. In no way do I relate to your typical stacies and beckies; they are alien to me, and malevolent ones at that. What do I have to relate to them about? Nobody cares if you both like kombucha or you’re both wearing jeans. We are as different as night and day on everything from music to philosophy to what makes us angry to social media usage to sexual experience and most of all humor, effectively everything that matters. I know there are different types of girls out there but I mean it when I say there isn’t enough. Not enough to find one that isn’t already taken or claims to be taken anyway. So there goes the hope of being relatable unless I either become a chameleon or fundamentally change who I am. Or am I missing something?

 

On 11/13/2023 at 3:39 PM, The Renaissance Man said:

Paying attention to other people that get more positive responses, if you have the chance to, will also help a lot in developing that natural sense.

But wouldn’t that also run the risk of tempting you to emulate their behavior, there goes your authenticity if that happens?

On 11/13/2023 at 3:39 PM, The Renaissance Man said:

you get yourself out there, but you watch closely the interaction (in your head).

Here’s the problem with that, and this is a very important thing I’m about to say:

I can watch the interaction like an NSA agent. But it won’t help one bit if the feedback I get doesn’t accurately reflect what they’re really feeling. I’m not going to learn jack shit if all they do is give me that blank faced fluoride stare the whole time and give me one worded responses. Girls also for some reason like to deliberately disguise their true feelings as something else. They’ll pretend to be interested in the conversation only to later complain to their friends/bfs/authority figures about that super weird dude (me) that thought he was good enough to talk to them for some reason and how deeply uncomfortable they were the whole time. I wish I was making this up. It’s virtually impossible to calibrate if I’m going to be misled and back stabbed like that. 

 

[Emotionalmosquito]

It wouldn’t be right to not include this groundbreaking scientific period related discovery again. I’ve posted it before but it’s even more relevant now.

They can shame me for it, rejected it, get the ick from it and ignore it when it’s just me talking about my fascination, but good luck with that when it turns out to be the future of modern medicine and possibly the most important discovery of our time! That beet red vajayjay juice happens to contain the highest quality, most adaptable and fastest replicating stem cells ever discovered. 

[The Renaissance Man]

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

But wouldn’t that also run the risk of tempting you to emulate their behavior, there goes your authenticity if that happens?

What you're after is understanding, not emulating. And emulating their behavior for a while won't ruin your life either, instead it could teach you some lessons, as you're exploring uncharted territory by behaving in different ways.

As a disclaimer, I'm no expert at this endeavor, so contemplate everything I say for yourself, don't blindly trust what I'm saying, I could just be plain ignorant. But I thought about what you're saying deeply, so I think at least my advice is good food for thought.

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Here’s the problem with that, and this is a very important thing I’m about to say:

I can watch the interaction like an NSA agent. But it won’t help one bit if the feedback I get doesn’t accurately reflect what they’re really feeling. I’m not going to learn jack shit if all they do is give me that blank faced fluoride stare the whole time and give me one worded responses. Girls also for some reason like to deliberately disguise their true feelings as something else. They’ll pretend to be interested in the conversation only to later complain to their friends/bfs/authority figures about that super weird dude (me) that thought he was good enough to talk to them for some reason and how deeply uncomfortable they were the whole time. I wish I was making this up. It’s virtually impossible to calibrate if I’m going to be misled and back stabbed like that. 

It's not an easy process, but this formula might help you... 

Take every experience that didn't yield the result you desired as a trigger to start a sort of scientific process. This can be done on paper.

1) Recall the full timeline of the experience, trying to pull out as much data as possible. No judgment, no solution. As if you were documenting the process in third person. The more data, the better.

2) Read through all of that. What could've caused your failure? It may be multiple factors. Try one at a time.

3) You've hypothesized your root cause. Now hypothesize an experiment. Meaning a different behavior, response, attitude, whatever. "try harder" is not an experiment.

4) Repeat the cycle after having done an experience with the new hypothesis, now evaluating it.

Can't expect a different response if the input you give is always the same! This is called Kolb's experiential cycle, if you want to do some more research on it.

 

ALSO, while that process is extremely valuable, some basic understanding of how first impressions and communication works can be crucial.

Two things that completely shattered old beliefs I had and made me make huge leaps forward were "understanding what women are attracted to" and "understanding how being funny works". Leo has some videos on these topics, and I suggest you don't watch them lightly, but instead you soak in everything that's in there.

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

If anything I’ve made more progress with the polite robot than anything else. In no way do I relate to your typical stacies and beckies; they are alien to me, and malevolent ones at that. What do I have to relate to them about? Nobody cares if you both like kombucha or you’re both wearing jeans. We are as different as night and day on everything from music to philosophy to what makes us angry to social media usage to sexual experience and most of all humor, effectively everything that matters. I know there are different types of girls out there but I mean it when I say there isn’t enough. Not enough to find one that isn’t already taken or claims to be taken anyway. So there goes the hope of being relatable unless I either become a chameleon or fundamentally change who I am. Or am I missing something?

First, you won't and you can't get along with everyone. Don't expect that, don't have that as a goal.

At the same time, too much seriousness will repel anybody. Men and women. Even people who love talking about philosophical topics will feel a pull towards less serious fun after a while.

Again, I suggest you watch Leo's videos on how to get laid (he talks about this and how it influences communication positively for men and women, not just romantic relationships). He makes the example of how he had to teach himself how to become less serious and care more about small talk, as a person who doesn't give a fuck about that.

 

No forum post will be able to go in depth enough. That's why I'm referring you to Leo's videos.

Other than that, to summarize, there's the experiential cycle which is a great tool to coach yourself,

And trying to understand how communication works rather than throwing shit at the wall randomly. What are the principles for a good interaction? What does it mean to be funny? (it's not about scripted jokes, or anything scripted) Where is the other person coming from?

Hope some of this helps

[Emotionalmosquito]

16 hours ago, The Renaissance Man said:

Hope some of this helps

I feel strongly that it will indeed help at least somewhat. I’ll just have to be super careful about not accidentally saying wrong things or behaving in wrong ways because that will greatly increase the likelihood of getting kicked out of places which will be a devastating blow to my hope of improving. You can’t really get any better if you aren’t allowed in many places and the people don’t like you because you’re a bit different. The threat of this also makes it incredibly nerve racking to approach because you have very little room for error, and it gets even worse the more places you get banned from because the more bridges you burn, the more lightly you have to tread in the places you have left. Which then makes it even harder because nobody likes interacting with someone who’s on edge. It’s a vicious cycle with seemingly no guaranteed solution. It’s so aggravating that women have absolutely no understanding of this struggle men face nor do they give a single fuck. They’re too obsessed with themselves and whether or not they’re getting “the ick” to consider the suffering of the less fortunate gender. Nevertheless I shall get back on the horse and ride into battle against all odds. This brutality of this war has almost completely destroyed me despite not even completing 5% of it. It will take nothing short of a mega miracle to succeed. 

I will rewatch the how to get laid series, I’ve seen it in the past but I’m overdue for a revisit.

19 hours ago, Yimpa said:

It’s not about finding a relationship that is flawless, it’s about creating ones that are able to adapt to change and growth, despite the flaws.

I’m not even looking for a relationship. I just wanna be that guy who has to keep all his girls from finding out about each other like on the movie John Tucker Must Die or The Other Girls. That would be so exciting! 

19 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Learning to interact with women is no easy task.

Understatement of the century LOL! It’s funny how girls will be like “Why are guys so scared, just come up and talk to us. We won’t bite, tehehe” Having no idea what we’re actually going through. This meme says it perfectly

 

[The0Self]

3 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

 

🤣 Good meme but as soon as that happens he should immediately do the same to the next girl he finds attractive, like the rejection was nothing. Just saying, as soon as success is obtained, that’s how it is. Which is why the Chad (bottom right yellow hair) would say what he said.

But starting with so I just saw you and… that’s probably coming from a frame of not being good enough and so of course he will fail more than he would otherwise, like if he comes in knowing he already gets girls just like her and so says something like: what’s up I’m [name].

[Yimpa]

Handling rejection gracefully is a sign of maturity. Women love testing you implicitly; you being selfish is what pushes her away.

[The Renaissance Man]

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I will rewatch the how to get laid series, I’ve seen it in the past but I’m overdue for a revisit.

Contemplate every word of that series. Don't skip a single word! Selective attention is an ugly beast.

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

I’ll just have to be super careful about not accidentally saying wrong things or behaving in wrong ways because that will greatly increase the likelihood of getting kicked out of places which will be a devastating blow to my hope of improving. You can’t really get any better if you aren’t allowed in many places and the people don’t like you because you’re a bit different. The threat of this also makes it incredibly nerve racking to approach because you have very little room for error, and it gets even worse the more places you get banned from because the more bridges you burn, the more lightly you have to tread in the places you have left. Which then makes it even harder because nobody likes interacting with someone who’s on edge. It’s a vicious cycle with seemingly no guaranteed solution. It’s so aggravating that women have absolutely no understanding of this struggle men face nor do they give a single fuck. They’re too obsessed with themselves and whether or not they’re getting “the ick” to consider the suffering of the less fortunate gender. Nevertheless I shall get back on the horse and ride into battle against all odds. This brutality of this war has almost completely destroyed me despite not even completing 5% of it. It will take nothing short of a mega miracle to succeed. 

- It being hard as fuck is a feature, not a bug. It's normal, and it's how it's supposed to be. It sucks, but more people are going through this shit than you think. Many don't even have the courage to ask for advice like you did.

- Women have different problems than men. Leo talks about it in the how to get laid series as well. It's victim mindset. Men have no idea of the struggles women face, and women have no idea of the struggles men face. On average. And I'm no feminist, trust me. I've gone through the Andrew Tate women-hating phase, and it's just a coping mechanism to justify your lack of success. "women are bad, that's why". But it just creates conflict, and makes you a fucking pussy in the eyes of a woman, too.

Many of those red-pill influencers understand very well that the weak spots of their audience are. While some of them act from good intentions, there's a conflict of interest between giving just solid advice, vs demonizing women and making them feel like they "awakened you to the truth", given you the "red pill". That way they're viewed by their audience as the savior of the "poor, misunderstood men", and how convenient is that? Oh, great, it's not my fault then. Much less painful this way, right?

- Also, people have their own concerns, and don't bother too much with your cringy episodes. When they go home they will spend exactly zero seconds thinking about that episode. It's not easy to internalize this to the point where you act from that perspective, but start to appreciate this. You can likely recall times when others acted weird around you, and you just forgot about it within a week (or more likely, 10 minutes). Of course you can burn some bridges, but many, many times your mind will amplify 100x.

- Another great resource I suggest you read is "The way of the superior man" by David Deida. Try to read it from an non-judgmental perspective towards women. Read it as if you were studying the behavior of rats, completely impartial, and just curious. Whenever you make a judgment about women, ask yourself: Do I really KNOW this to judge it? Do I have that much actual experience talking to the opposite sex to know it's true? Could it be that I know jack shit about what goes on in a woman's mind? Did I ever try and behave like a man the way it's described in the book, or did I always live from the perspective of a boy?

 

 

I still have a shit ton to work to do still, but I'll tell you what made me get closer to an actual solution. Try to deeply think about what I'm about to say. Evaluate it for yourself, don't believe me. Try to recall episodes where this may be true. Actual life scenarios. But it might be bullshit as well, that's why I want you to think critically.

There's a ton of stuff in this post, I hope parts don't get lost, it's all very meaningful to me.

- First, it really helped to understand how many insecurities women have, and how much the majority of them are less developed than I am (maybe it's an overcompensation from a previous lack of self-esteem), since they never did the amount of personal development work I did. And the same goes for men. You see the average man, and how mediocre his life is. What makes you think women are any different? They're not. Maybe socially they will be ahead of you, but seeing how you might be crushing them in terms of direction in life, knowledge of your mind, and so on can help taking them down from a pedestal that's purely imaginary. Just being in this forum makes it far more likely that you're ahead in development compared to 80% of the women you talk to, if not more.

- Second, it was a mind-shattering moment to understand how women attraction works. So fucking counterintuitive. Imagine it like this... Recall times where you felt respect for another man. Respect and admiration. For his courage, integrity, boldness, for being able to do the things you aren't able to. You can FEEL this respect, this admiration. Well, that's sexual attraction for women. This comparison may not be perfect, but it's quite spot on actually. I realized I had zero clue about this, and once I realized it, I finally had a way to understand the female mind for fucking once. NOW it started to click. Now I could see how some guys could pull up girls. Now I could see how they were repelled by my neediness. Imagine this, would you admire a man who follows every order you give him, allows you to abuse him, who asks for you to solve his problems, who has no courage to do anything? IF you wouldn't admire him, that equals to a woman not being attracted. Now imagine a man who you would admire, and magine being a woman and wanting to have sex with him.

Also, would you admire a bully, someone who's arrogant? An asshole? Hmm, not really. But you would still respect it more than a pussy dork. But if you wouldn't admire him, it means that's not the way to attracting a woman. A woman who's with an asshole has settled. Because she has flaws too, as I said in point 1. Don't be fooled into thinking treating a woman badly will attract her. It's like saying you admire a bully. You might stick around him rather than being alone, but that's not a leader you'd want.

Edited November 16, 2023 by The Renaissance Man

[numbersinarow]

8 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

There you go.

"YOU need to risk jail by cold approaching instead of women asking to be your gf" or "You need go to to uni to get a gf" are completely bad faith statements, since anyone with common sense knows the first is not logically sustainable and the second is telling you to submit to someone else's monopolization of... well, apparently, any kind of an opportunity to talk to girls.

[numbersinarow]

7 hours ago, Yimpa said:

Handling rejection gracefully is a sign of maturity. Women love testing you implicitly; you being selfish is what pushes her away.

Agreed, women hate selfish delusional narcissists, not a single one has ever been successful with women...

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, numbersinarow said:

Agreed, women hate selfish delusional narcissists, not a single one has ever been successful with women...

They actually don’t like them, they just put up with them because a selfish delusional narcissist usually believes in himself, and not all guys do. They would much rather a man without that affliction would get a woman to step up, but again they often can’t find one to do so.

Edited November 16, 2023 by The0Self

[Thought Art]

@Emotionalmosquito It doesn’t matter what you say exactly when you are socially calibrated. Why would you talk about menstration when plucking up a girl is beyond me.

The whole point of letting yourself get embarrassed I think is so you can adjust based on Feedback…

How many approches did Leo say to do minimum? 400? 1000? 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Thought Art

[Yimpa]

Remember, there is a difference between following a teacher who is speaking to a broad audience, vs having a teacher guide you one-on-one.

In either case, the end goal should be to not depend on the teacher to tell you what to do. You are your greatest teacher. Derive the solutions for yourself through massive experience, trial-and-error, and yes, many failures.

[Emotionalmosquito]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:29 PM, Thought Art said:

It doesn’t matter what you say exactly when you are socially calibrated. Why would you talk about menstration when plucking up a girl is beyond me.

Exactly, it shouldn’t matter if I talk about that if I’m socially calibrated but that’s just it. I need to learn how to calibrate but it’s hard.

On 11/16/2023 at 4:15 PM, Yimpa said:

Derive the solutions for yourself through massive experience, trial-and-error, and yes, many failures.

 

On 11/16/2023 at 1:29 PM, Thought Art said:

How many approches did Leo say to do minimum? 400? 1000? 

There lies the problem. I do need massive experience and over a thousand approaches to learn how to get girls but there literally isn’t enough people to practice on. It would help tremendously if I could just do reruns on the same girls but they will not take kindly to that, neither will their boyfriends, dads, brothers, other women, the cops and so forth. Once rejected you must look elsewhere, which sucks because I’m so bad at this I WILL run out of targets long before ever improving sufficiently, then what? This is a serious problem that I still have no solution to.

On 11/16/2023 at 4:59 AM, The Renaissance Man said:

Men have no idea of the struggles women face, and women have no idea of the struggles men face.

I’m sure it all balances out ultimately but the gender dynamics of modern times would suggest women have lots of unfair societal advantages against men, but that’s its own thread.

On 11/16/2023 at 4:59 AM, The Renaissance Man said:

Also, people have their own concerns, and don't bother too much with your cringy episodes. When they go home they will spend exactly zero seconds thinking about that episode.

This is very hard to accept. All I see is evidence of the contrary. If that’s true, why would they shit talk you with their friends behind your back AFTER you’ve left and the interaction is over? Why point you out to the bouncer to get you kicked out for making harmless little mistakes if they aren’t worried about your goof ups? Something else made a thread about this happening to him. Heck, sometimes they’ll even film you so they can have creep shaming circle jerks and laugh maliciously with thousands of other women and simps on social media. Does any of that sound like they aren’t concerned about your cringy episodes? It’s like they deliberately go out of their way to ruin you and rip your spirit to pieces on as many levels as possible for the crime of not having flawless social skills. These are exactly the women who would have had you beheaded or tortured in a dungeon if they were queens in the medieval era.

I know they aren’t all that evil, but like they say, one bad apple spoils the bunch. They tend to be easily influenced by bad opinions of you. Sometimes yes, it’s only my mind making a chicken out of a feather, but often it’s the opposite. My mind trying to cope by reducing the chicken down to a feather. Like “surely people can’t be THIS profoundly shitty! Surely I’m just imagining things” Next thing you know, authority figure taps on your shoulder and says “we’re gonna have to ask you to leave.” 

On 11/16/2023 at 9:30 AM, The0Self said:

They actually don’t like them, they just put up with them because a selfish delusional narcissist usually believes in himself, and not all guys do. They would much rather a man without that affliction would get a woman to step up, but again they often can’t find one to do so.

They’re literally more turned on by getting abused than being with a guy who’s willing to take abuse. They literally embody the very trait they’re repulsed by. You can’t make this up. 

On 11/14/2023 at 1:33 PM, meta_male said:

It's easy to fall under the illusion that you're being yourself while you're actually not. Self != behaviour. It's ok to change your behaviour.

I’ll put it like this: To be yourself, you at least need to feel free to talk about your passions, right? If your passions happen to be things that others are appalled by, that makes being yourself counterproductive in this regard.

 

I don’t want to sound stubborn or like every time you guys give me some suggestions or food for thought that I’m just trying to rebuke it to stay stuck in my hole. Truth is y’all are giving me massively helpful info, I just need to somehow find the energy to apply it. My replies might sound nit picky or argumentative but that’s only because those are the things I have issue with the most. Everything else I’m hearing is brilliant. 

[Yimpa]

4 minutes ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

This is a serious problem that I still have no solution to.

Mr. Leo said if best here:

 

[The0Self]

10 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

They’re literally more turned on by getting abused than being with a guy who’s willing to take abuse. They literally embody the very trait they’re repulsed by. You can’t make this up. 

It’s not really like that. It’s that they will generally be more likely to be turned on by a guy who has the ability to abuse, whether he does it or not, but they strongly prefer that he doesn’t. So if you role play (in a clearly joking/playful/unserious way) as an abuser, that’s generally going to be a good thing for keeping her around, because she will like that she’s with a guy who “has that in him” but is too good for it.

Edited November 21, 2023 by The0Self

[something_else]

17 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Why point you out to the bouncer to get you kicked out for making harmless little mistakes if they aren’t worried about your goof ups?

It's likely because those harmless mistakes are actions that are very similar to the actions that would taken by actual predators. Most women have at least some experience with SA or other predatory guys so they build up a profile of the kind of actions that are associated with it. And from the POV of a woman it's better to err on the side of caution.

Poor social skills + overconfidence is the killer combo here. It repels women because it means a guy comes across as unreasonable and erratic. They can't figure you out or predict what you will do and that's dangerous. Think the 'PUA' guys who chase women on bikes. That is a combo of awful social skills but delusional confidence. If you give off that same vibe, women will assume you are dangerous.

Quote

why would they shit talk you with their friends behind your back AFTER you’ve left and the interaction is over?

Unless you do something really really dumb, this is about as far as it will go. Who cares?

 

17 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Heck, sometimes they’ll even film you so they can have creep shaming circle jerks and laugh maliciously with thousands of other women and simps on social media

The motivation here is not to shame you but to gain attention. 90% of people realise that what these woman are doing is dumb, but they get outraged by it so it still seems like it's more prevalent of an issue than it really is.

 

[Schizophonia]

Seducing is like trying to sleep when you're insomniac, it's just as counterintuitive.

I see myself as a sun who must trust in its energetic qualities to suck up the different planets, which running after them will paradoxically spoil, by making me look like a "bad sun" among these small planets.

lol, what am I saying..

Edited November 21, 2023 by Schizophonia

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Schizophonia said:

Seducing is like trying to sleep when you're insomniac, it's just as counterintuitive.

Seduction is literally just

1. providing intimacy and freely expressing

while

2. being valuable or embodying high value and/or confidence.

[Twentyfirst]

People hate this but a big key is to realize that you are above the woman

Men are the superior gender therefore just treat her as a lesser being and sort of do whatever you want without her regard without while still staying respectful

The entire life of a woman is trying to pretend like she is equal to you to gain more power she knows she's lesser but she can't ever break character

Like I said people hate this