Why do PUAs tell us things that are absurdly oversimplified or just blatantly false?

[Emotionalmosquito]

Like I hate being told that how you say something is more important that what is said, that the vibe is more important than the content. I can’t even tell you the amount of times I’ve experienced exactly the contrary. For example I love the menstrual process, I find it more than just fascinating to talk about and think about so obviously I’m going to have good energy and passion in my voice while I’m talking about what I like. Do you know how many women are absolutely disgusted when I just casually bring it up in conversation? Well over half at least. What’s even more odd about this is you would think the average girl would be thrilled about a guy who’s not afraid to talk openly and respectfully about what most guys find repulsive. Now how could this be if the vibe outweighs the content? I also have plenty more examples than this. 

Another piece of advice that’s commonly given is to always be authentic. If one more person tells me to “be myself” I am going to lose it. This DOES NOT work for everybody. Is it so hard to accept that some people really do need to fundamentally modify the “self” they present if they ever want to get a girlfriend? Because that’s definitely the case with me. All I ever do is be myself yet it barely ever works out and often causes me big trouble. When I point this out they’re like “yeah well you always wanna be yourself but you have to do it in very particular ways and within certain guidelines for it to work.” Hmm that’s funny. If you have to filter yourself through all these arbitrary conditions and caveats then that’s not really being your full and true self now is it? 

I just watched a video where Julien Blanc said we need to purposely embarrass ourselves more often because if you aren’t willing to embarrass yourself that means you’re playing it too safe. GFYS! Seriously go fuck yourself buddy. You have no inkling of a clue what my experience is like. I’ve embarrassed myself countless times both intentionally and unintentionally so where the hell is all my pussy?

Why are we being given this misinformation when clearly what works much better than being totally real with people is being some curated and dumbed down version of yourself. A guy who knows how women are and what they respond to will always outperform a guy who talks about whatever he’s interested in talking about. Because he knows the right things to SAY and when to say them instead of just thoughtlessly blurting out whatever comes to mind. 

How do you reconcile this? 

[itsadistraction]

Sex and pick up is a social event so it will involve some basic social calibration and conformity. 

Imagine a caveman trying to adjust to society. Almost no matter what he does he will stand out ESPECIALLY if he tries to be himself. No offense but if you think the menstrual cycle is something today's women enjoy talking about then your social calibration is way off.

This is why having good friends is important. It shows you are well adjusted into everyday society.

The A in PUA stands for Artist because it is an art. Picasso mastered the fundamentals and basics of art before experimenting with original ideas. Master the basics of social interaction before trying to be original with women.  

Good luck my dude. You will get this. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by itsadistraction

[NoSelfSelf]

Vibe is in the situation also ,if you bring up the topic that kills the vibe then doesnt matter what vibe you are in so your timing is off not the vibe, also you are being creepy if you bring something without reason again context..

You dont have strong enough game to be the situation...

Why would you talk about that topic? i dont see how talking about that brings anything that's why its creepy, you need to explain why you talking about that also to the person to get you...

[Emotionalmosquito]

46 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

you need to explain why you talking about that also to the person to get you...

I mean who really goes out of their way to explain why they’re talking about what they’re talking about with each new thing they talk about, that would get tiresome. From what I’ve noticed people just let conversational topics flow out naturally as they come to mind without needing to specify a reason for everything brought up. Wouldn’t that disrupt the natural flow? But if that be the case, what’s wrong with just telling them you’re talking about it because you find it intriguing? Or u could just be like “mind if I start talking about something random lol”

@itsadistraction That makes sense. Though I find it to be absolute horse shit  how people have to be so non chill about everything for no reason. I wouldn’t be the least bit put off by a random chick approaching me to start talking about how my equipment works. In fact I’d find the violation of social conformity refreshing as long as she didn’t start getting all handsy and belligerent, which I would never do. So where’s the “treat others the way you want to be treated” golden rule?

In short, I’m just glad you said it like is instead of more of this be yourself bs. 

[Emotionalmosquito]

1 hour ago, itsadistraction said:

Good luck my dude. You will get this. 

Even if I don’t have enough people to practice on? No idea how that’s supposed to work 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Emotionalmosquito If you want to be like other people then dont ask queastions that are not for other people, "just go with the flow" wasting my time...

[Raze]

The vibe outweighing the content doesn’t mean the content doesn’t make a difference.

When they say be yourself they mean don’t put on an act which is unsustainable, it isn’t just doing what you’d naturally do either as you probably already inhabit a persona.

Embarrassing yourself can make you not take yourself seriously and be less self conscious and more free from outcome which can make you more attractive. 

[The0Self]

Well most of the teachers out there are blatant frauds. Well they aren’t frauds in that they aren’t selling what some people apparently want (hope and camaraderie), they just usually aren’t telling you how to actually get laid virtually guaranteed (which is possible and in fact just having an honest conversation with a woman who respects you can clear it up for you in one afternoon). Just look at the girlfriends and wives of these teachers — now I’m not one to be shallow but hear me out… when your whole sales pitch is getting hot women, believe me if they could do it themselves they would show it, and they don’t. And there are a lot of cult followers of those people — and on this forum btw.

You’re taking yourself too seriously if you’re worried about this nonsense. If you’re interested in something, being yourself (plus being strong and kind, obviously, if you lack that, in which case that’s your problem go fix that) will indeed be attractive to some women, but obviously not every woman. Rejection happens all the time and it shouldn’t matter one single bit — if it does matter to you it will be a self fulfilling prophecy. If a woman doesn’t like what you say just calibrate after the fact and don’t let her get you to con yourself into thinking anything social or sexual is a big deal at all — that’s the real issue guys have. It’s where the idea of “state” and “warming up” comes from — anyone talking about either of those two things unironically is unaware of the actual game cheat code (defining your own value as unbreakably good enough for any girl right now just the way you fucking are).

Edited November 12, 2023 by The0Self

[something_else]

What you say and how you say it both matter.

You can think of it like the ‘how’ you say it determining ‘what’ you can say and get away with it.

For example being passionate about women’s menstruation is an unusual thing for a dude to be passionate about so you’d need a lot of humour, charm and wit (‘the how’) to act as a counterbalance to that topic (‘the what’) to get away with it

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, something_else said:

What you say and how you say it both matter.

You can think of it like the ‘how’ you say it determining ‘what’ you can say and get away with it.

For example being passionate about women’s menstruation is an unusual thing for a dude to be passionate about so you’d need a lot of humour, charm and wit (‘the how’) to act as a counterbalance to that topic (‘the what’) to get away with it

For real. Almost sounded like a troll post (no offense; just goes to show social calibration is a thing).

Edited November 13, 2023 by The0Self

[Emotionalmosquito]

10 hours ago, The0Self said:

Almost sounded like a troll post (no offense; just goes to show social calibration is a thing).

Definitely not a troll post but I can see how it would look like it. If I understand social calibration correctly it’s basically the practice of only talking about what’s relevant to the person you’re talking to and the context of the scenario you’re in? Like don’t go off on a rant about some random thing out of nowhere?

23 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

If you want to be like other people then dont ask queastions that are not for other people, "just go with the flow" wasting my time...

I don’t wanna be like other people, I just wanna sleep with their women. I agree it seems like a huge waste of time the whole thing, but unfortunately our bodies are screaming at us to get laid every second of every day, so we go through mountains of hard ass work just to hopefully MAYBE increase our chance of being successful. Surely you didn’t mean ME wasting YOUR time? Because that’d be easy just stop replying.  Don’t get me wrong I really do appreciate all the help I can get!

14 hours ago, something_else said:

For example being passionate about women’s menstruation is an unusual thing for a dude to be passionate about so you’d need a lot of humour, charm and wit (‘the how’) to act as a counterbalance to that topic (‘the what’) to get away with it

That makes sense. It’s just if the PUAs are saying being totally filterless makes you seem more attractive you have to expect some weird things to get said, no? And isn’t wit mostly attached to your intelligence? Cuz that’s not something you can easily upgrade if so.

 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Emotionalmosquito You already losing with being thirsty ,needy, desperate. Yeah wasting mine and yours time thinking about other people and trying to be sucessful to get laid, complete catasthrophy 😅

Edited November 13, 2023 by NoSelfSelf

[PenguinPablo]

1 hour ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

Definitely not a troll post but I can see how it would look like it. If I understand social calibration correctly it’s basically the practice of only talking about what’s relevant to the person you’re talking to and the context of the scenario you’re in? Like don’t go off on a rant about some random thing out of nowhere?

I don’t wanna be like other people, I just wanna sleep with their women. I agree it seems like a huge waste of time the whole thing, but unfortunately our bodies are screaming at us to get laid every second of every day, so we go through mountains of hard ass work just to hopefully MAYBE increase our chance of being successful. Surely you didn’t mean ME wasting YOUR time? Because that’d be easy just stop replying.  Don’t get me wrong I really do appreciate all the help I can get!

That makes sense. It’s just if the PUAs are saying being totally filterless makes you seem more attractive you have to expect some weird things to get said, no? And isn’t wit mostly attached to your intelligence? Cuz that’s not something you can easily upgrade if so.

 

Yep exactly.

Maybe in your case it would be better to learn how to emulate an average conversation

rather than pick a topic of your choice.

It might take you a few months of socializing to get used to and calibrate yourself to normal conversation

especially if you don't get a lot of social exposure

Watching some full length infield videos could help.

I say full length so you get an accurate portrayal, the ebb and flow

&& not just highlights of extreme moments in the interaction -- may lead you astray since you are struggling with calibration.

I would say err on the side of caution

get more social experience until you become used to normal day to day conversations.

Then push the edge from there. 

-------------------------------------

When Julien says what you say doesn't matter...

he's telling that to guys that are too afraid to say anything

&& filtering out 100% of the stuff that comes to mind

leaving them with NOTHING to say.

Those guys are over-calibrating. 

It would best serve them to NOT to over analyze every little thing that comes to mind and RELAX 

since more than likely most of what comes to mind would be fine...

but not if their body language && voice completely betray them by projecting an utter lack if confidence.

Edited November 13, 2023 by PenguinPablo

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

That makes sense. It’s just if the PUAs are saying being totally filterless makes you seem more attractive you have to expect some weird things to get said, no? And isn’t wit mostly attached to your intelligence? Cuz that’s not something you can easily upgrade if so.

 

Speaking with no filter in a socially calibrated manner basically just means: expressing yourself + not being fake + not being rude.

[The Renaissance Man]

7 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

If I understand social calibration correctly it’s basically the practice of only talking about what’s relevant to the person you’re talking to and the context of the scenario you’re in? Like don’t go off on a rant about some random thing out of nowhere?

I would probably describe social calibration as intuitively being able to calibrate your communication based on your reading of the situation. For example, you could tease a friend in ways that would be terribly offensive for a stranger. Well, how do I know when it's appropriate then? When does the stranger become a friend? But if I like saying dark jokes and I'm keeping them to myself, isn't that not being authentic?

1) You determine when it's appropriate through mindful experience. Those two are carefully picked words. Meaning, you get yourself out there, but you watch closely the interaction (in your head). Over time patterns will develop and you develop the natural skill of social calibration. Paying attention to other people that get more positive responses, if you have the chance to, will also help a lot in developing that natural sense.

2) An authentic person doesn't behave in the same way in every situation. Again, social calibration. But when is it social calibration and when is it anxiety? Social calibration comes from common sense, anxiety comes from fear. These teachers take social calibration for granted (probably), and when they talk about authenticity they mean removing that fear of being yourself, which if not solved leads you in behaving like a polite robot rather than a relatable human.

[something_else]

11 hours ago, Emotionalmosquito said:

That makes sense. It’s just if the PUAs are saying being totally filterless makes you seem more attractive you have to expect some weird things to get said, no? And isn’t wit mostly attached to your intelligence? Cuz that’s not something you can easily upgrade if so.

They say this because most socially anxious guys actually filter themselves too much and so for them, reducing their filter will result in growth. Yes they might say some dumb shit but it’s still facing a fear for them which is progress overall.

It sounds like you may be at the other end of the spectrum where you already don’t have any filter at all, and so applying this advice won’t help. In fact it might hurt or create frustration.

A socially anxious guy may learn to talk without a filter and then eventually return to his more natural filtered state but with extra wisdom that creates a more balanced and charismatic person.

In the same way you could learn to filter yourself a bit more and see the results of that, and once you’ve learnt what you need to you can start moving back towards your more natural unfiltered state.

[petar8p]

You still have to be conscious of when is it a good idea to open up about menstruation for example. 

Establish some comfort/trust first. Then it is very important how you say it, yes. 

Also, why would you use the same thing and put it in the same way out? Why are you blaming PUAs for something you interpreted wrong?

[Yimpa]

On 11/12/2023 at 4:51 AM, Emotionalmosquito said:

Is it so hard to accept that some people really do need to fundamentally modify the “self” they present if they ever want to get a girlfriend?

I’ve found that the girl will guide me on doing that organically, rather than me putting up a front to attract her.

[Emotionalmosquito]

Wow, fantastic replies so far guys. Huge thanks! The dots are connecting, slowly but surely

[meta_male]

On 12.11.2023 at 11:51 AM, Emotionalmosquito said:

Is it so hard to accept that some people really do need to fundamentally modify the “self” they present if they ever want to get a girlfriend?

It's easy to fall under the illusion that you're being yourself while you're actually not. Self != behaviour. It's ok to change your behaviour.