I'm just curious about Leo's opinion on Razard86

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Jowblob said:

If i would have had a choice i would never have taken the psychedelic route. Having a guru and a natural way is the way to go to god. Psychedelics is like insanity/awe/suicide in 1 word, that's why i stopped with this work.

The problem with psychedelics is that they can be very confusing. You have to have natural talent not to be fooled and above all an ego light enough not to fall into narcissism and megalomania, not only because they are bad in themselves but because they lead to confusion .humility is the key

Edited November 12, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Osaid]

44 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The problem with psychedelics is that they can be very confusing. You have to have natural talent not to be fooled and above all an ego light enough not to fall into narcissism and megalomania. humility is the key

I noticed that psychedelics have a habit of anthropomorphizing what is realized from enlightenment. It is like dreaming while awake, or experiencing a metaphor in real life. You can have experiences that feel infinite, loving, godly, etc, but they are not the same as what is found in enlightenment, and they are often perpetuated through identities and stories. Psychedelics create very powerful emotional states, which the ego has to create beliefs and explanations around, simply because that is how the ego operates.

For example, the ego cannot believe that it is a worthless piece of crap while experiencing a strong feeling of love, it has to believe something else. It has to create another belief in that moment, like "I am everything therefore I must love everything", or "There is no difference between anything therefore I must love myself."

As another example, from the sober state you can realize yourself to be infinite, but you can also have an experience on psychedelics where you are living an infinite amount of lifetimes, to which you then proclaim: "Oh my god, reality is infinite and it goes on forever." And this seems to be the same "infinite" spoken by enlightened folks, but it is not.

Or, you can have an experience on psychedelics where you realize that you are just imagining all the things that you hate about yourself, and this creates an intellectual insight which says "Everything I hate is imaginary therefore it is wrong and selfish to hate things." These experiences creates many conflations like this, which seem to be the same as enlightenment, but really aren't the same at all.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Osaid

[Inliytened1]

17 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I noticed that psychedelics have a habit of anthropomorphizing what is realized from enlightenment. It is like dreaming while awake, or experiencing a metaphor in real life. You can have experiences that feel infinite, loving, godly, etc, but they are not the same as what is found in enlightenment, and they are often perpetuated through identity and stories. Psychedelics create very powerful emotional states, which the ego has to create beliefs and explanations around, simply because that is how the ego operates.

For example, the ego cannot believe that it is a worthless piece of crap while experiencing a strong feeling of love, it has to believe something else. It has to create another belief in that moment, like "I am everything therefore I must love everything", or "There is no difference between anything therefore I must love myself."

As another example, from the sober state you can realize yourself to be infinite, but you can also have an experience on psychedelics where you are living an infinite amount of lifetimes, to which you then proclaim "Oh my god, reality is infinite and it goes on forever." And this seems to be the same "infinite" spoken by enlightened folks, but it is not.

Or, you can have an experience on psychedelics where you realize that you are just imagining all the things that you hate about yourself, and this creates an intellectual insight which says "Everything I hate is imaginary therefore it is wrong and selfish to hate things." These experiences creates many conflations like this, which seem to be the same as enlightenment, but really aren't the same at all.

@Loveeee   simply read this.  Get away from your idol.  While he brings good things to the table, there are things he is wrong about. He is human afterall.

[Breakingthewall]

44 minutes ago, Osaid said:

I noticed that psychedelics have a habit of anthropomorphizing what is realized from enlightenment. It is like dreaming while awake, or experiencing a metaphor in real life. You can have experiences that feel infinite, loving, godly, etc, but they are not the same as what is found in enlightenment, and they are often perpetuated through identities and stories. Psychedelics create very powerful emotional states, which the ego has to create beliefs and explanations around, simply because that is how the ego operates.

For example, the ego cannot believe that it is a worthless piece of crap while experiencing a strong feeling of love, it has to believe something else. It has to create another belief in that moment, like "I am everything therefore I must love everything", or "There is no difference between anything therefore I must love myself."

As another example, from the sober state you can realize yourself to be infinite, but you can also have an experience on psychedelics where you are living an infinite amount of lifetimes, to which you then proclaim: "Oh my god, reality is infinite and it goes on forever." And this seems to be the same "infinite" spoken by enlightened folks, but it is not.

Or, you can have an experience on psychedelics where you realize that you are just imagining all the things that you hate about yourself, and this creates an intellectual insight which says "Everything I hate is imaginary therefore it is wrong and selfish to hate things." These experiences creates many conflations like this, which seem to be the same as enlightenment, but really aren't the same at all.

Good points. psychedelics are very deceptive. For me the key is to use them to dissolve the ego, not to obtain information, know things, understand reality, since that is magnifying the ego. the difference is subtle.

If you want to open yourself to the spiritual dimension you must abandon all that, the problem is that psychedelics allow you to open yourself quite a bit to the let's say unlimited dimension while maintaining the self and its structure, then the self merges with the unlimited creating a monstrosity.

[Loveeee]

34 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Loveeee   simply read this.  Get away from your idol.  While he brings good things to the table, there are things he is wrong about. He is human afterall.

Idol ? Everything  I say comes from my own experience and understanding, unlike you concerning psychedelics which you've never tried

Like Terence McKenna said, psychedelics don't work on stupid people, meaning it's no guarantee

[Osaid]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you want to open yourself to the spiritual dimension you must abandon all that, the problem is that psychedelics allow you to open yourself quite a bit to the let's say unlimited dimension while maintaining the self and its structure, then the self merges with the unlimited creating a monstrosity.

Yes, it is very deceptive in that way. The experiences it creates are insanely powerful. If human beings can imagine religions from the baseline state, imagine what they can imagine from psychedelic experiences.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Osaid

[Merkabah Star]

Some people are ready into their early twenties to go fully in, they have probably been prepping since birth and prior lives. So being ageist is not fair. 

 

 

 

[Water by the River]

2 hours ago, Osaid said:

I noticed that psychedelics have a habit of anthropomorphizing what is realized from enlightenment. It is like dreaming while awake, or experiencing a metaphor in real life. You can have experiences that feel infinite, loving, godly, etc, but they are not the same as what is found in enlightenment, and they are often perpetuated through identities and stories. Psychedelics create very powerful emotional states, which the ego has to create beliefs and explanations around, simply because that is how the ego operates.

For example, the ego cannot believe that it is a worthless piece of crap while experiencing a strong feeling of love, it has to believe something else. It has to create another belief in that moment, like "I am everything therefore I must love everything", or "There is no difference between anything therefore I must love myself."

As another example, from the sober state you can realize yourself to be infinite, but you can also have an experience on psychedelics where you are living an infinite amount of lifetimes, to which you then proclaim: "Oh my god, reality is infinite and it goes on forever." And this seems to be the same "infinite" spoken by enlightened folks, but it is not.

Or, you can have an experience on psychedelics where you realize that you are just imagining all the things that you hate about yourself, and this creates an intellectual insight which says "Everything I hate is imaginary therefore it is wrong and selfish to hate things." These experiences creates many conflations like this, which seem to be the same as enlightenment, but really aren't the same at all.

Thank you for that post. Then I don't have to write something similiar, end can enjoy the sunday focusing on other endeavours. 

 

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Good points. psychedelics are very deceptive. For me the key is to use them to dissolve the ego, not to obtain information, know things, understand reality, since that is magnifying the ego. the difference is subtle.

If you want to open yourself to the spiritual dimension you must abandon all that, the problem is that psychedelics allow you to open yourself quite a bit to the let's say unlimited dimension while maintaining the self and its structure, then the self merges with the unlimited creating a monstrosity.

But what would happen to our little drama show here if that were not or no longer the case?  

One could start worrying a bit about the drama factor of the show winding down considering the possibility that certain key players get tired and actually could consider getting off the hamster mill & tail chasing. And getting tired of being only temporarily relieved in their self-contraction by grasping at the beauty of trying to understand the infinity of the manifested side of consiousness n+1 so to say.

And actually winding down and ending the "you" or self-contraction, as Inliytened1 mentioned.

The contraction=ego=separate self=suffering burning, dying and evaporting in the obvious omnisience of ones own True, Enternal and Infinite Being. Being replaced by the relieve of knowing ones True Self to be all arisings and manifestation, no matter how high or low or alien or eartly or n+1. Now, ever since, and forever, no matter how much confusion arises again this life or the next.

But considering how much ingeniuty Infinite Reality put into the autopoiesis of the ego/separate-self delusion-arisings/Gestalt (all the way up to the very top of the mountain), probably not much to worry considering the continuation of the gig. But who knows...

Selling Water by the River

Edited November 12, 2023 by Water by the River

[Inliytened1]

23 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

Thank you for that post. Then I don't have to write something similiar, end can enjoy the sunday focusing on other endeavours. 

 

But what would happen to our little drama show here if that were not or no longer the case?  

One could start worrying a bit about the drama factor of the show winding down considering the possibility that certain key players get tired and actually could consider getting off the hamster mill & tail chasing. And getting tired of being only temporarily relieved in their self-contraction by grasping at the beauty of trying to understand the infinity of the manifested side of consiousness n+1 so to say.

And actually winding down and ending the "you" or self-contraction, as Inliytened1 mentioned.

The contraction=ego=separate self=suffering burning, dying and evaporting in the obvious omnisience of ones own True, Enternal and Infinite Being. Being replaced by the relieve of knowing ones True Self to be all arisings and manifestation, no matter how high or low or alien or eartly or n+1. Now, ever since, and forever, no matter how much confusion arises again this life or the next.

But considering how much ingeniuty Infinite Reality put into the autopoiesis of the ego/separate-self delusion-arisings/Gestalt (all the way up to the very top of the mountain), probably not much to worry considering the continuation of the gig. But who knows...

Selling Water by the River

You were watching and waiting.   Gladly,  @Osaid saved you the trouble. 

Look guys - im not saying dont delve into psychedelics.   They can bring you awakening.   But that is only if you are already ready to awake.  You can't pop a pill and just expect to become enlightened.   If that was the case we would have a whole bunch of awkaened ones .  

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

2 hours ago, Loveeee said:

Idol ? Everything  I say comes from my own experience and understanding, unlike you concerning psychedelics which you've never tried

Like Terence McKenna said, psychedelics don't work on stupid people, meaning it's no guarantee

I don't need to try them.  That's the point.  Look - you want to follow him into the depths of hell go right ahaead.   But awakening is before you now - right here.  But you must put him aside.  I know you like a book.  You are a  25 year old kid who wants to know reality- yet you can't do your own laundry.   Mom does that.   If you want to get real about this work then get the fuck off here and find out for yourself. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Loveeee]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't need to try them.  That's the point.  Look - you want to follow him into the depths of hell go right ahaead.   But awakening is before you now - right here.  But you must put him aside.  I know you like a book.  You are a  25 year old kid who wants to know reality- yet you can't do your own laundry.   Mom does that.   If you want to get real about this work then get the fuck off here and fine out for yourself. 

But I did ! And still do

We both agree on what is, Here/Now, the question is how much you know it 

You can know it so much you feel like you're no longer breathing 

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

But I did ! And still do

We both agree on what is, Here/Now, the question is how much you know it 

You can know it so much you feel like you're no longer breathing 

The Truth will hurt you.   In fact it will kill you.   Don't ruin your life over spirituality    lf you actually awaken you will die.  You're not ready to come back altered.  The funny thing is when Gandalf fell to the Balrog he emerged as Gandalf the White.   He was killed and returned.   And that's precisely what you must do.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Loveeee]

20 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I don't need to try them.  That's the point.  

No the point is I'm not the one idolizing or talking out of belief, you are, by making statements about psychs such as this one

Can you see how that is a belief ? You are idolizing "natural" awakening 

[Inliytened1]

3 hours ago, Loveeee said:

No the point is I'm not the one idolizing or talking out of belief, you are, by making statements about psychs such as this one

Can you see how that is a belief ? You are idolizing "natural" awakening 

Typo.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Loveeee]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I could say the same thing- that thecool.

ntists in the early 1800s put away all my dishes.  So I guess I'm come .

Huh ?

Hopefully I caused some kind of cognitive dissonance that will bring you to reason 

[Merkabah Star]

29 minutes ago, Loveeee said:

Huh ?

Hopefully I caused some kind of cognitive dissonance that will bring you to reason 

I thought his psychedelic kicked in? 😂😂😂😂😂

[Osaid]

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

You were watching and waiting.

As was I.

1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:

Look guys - im not saying dont delve into psychedelics.   They can bring you awakening.   But that is only if you are already ready to awake.  You can't pop a pill and just expect to become enlightened.   If that was the case we would have a whole bunch of awkaened ones .  

Unfortunately for psychedelic enthusiasts, it has to happen sober. You can knock yourself out with psychedelic experiences once you reach enlightenment, but otherwise the potential for delusion is massive. This is common sense when you realize that no recorded enlightened person became enlightened through psychedelics, and also that no enlightened person throughout history even really mentions them as a favourable route. But, if that seems like an appeal to authority, it is also simply the case that you have to live your life as a sober human, unless you are seeking to permanently be on a psychedelic or something.

The actual problem is not that line of reasoning I just provided, but that psychedelic users actually believe that enlightenment is a certain experience or state of consciousness out of many, which completely prevents them from even entertaining the idea of doing it sober. They believe they are reaching enlightenment and then coming back down from it through the psychedelics, so the psychedelics become a massive red herring which they perpetually pursue. They either don't know what enlightenment is, or they don't even believe it exists anymore because of their previously acclimated psychedelic dogma. Because of this, they often find themselves chasing their own tail through psychedelic experiences forever, in the same way a scientist attempts to figure out reality by pursuing science forever.

Another big problem is that people who are going into psychedelics for enlightenment have no clue what enlightenment is, they just have an idea of it. They come out of a psychedelic experience thinking they've experienced or debunked enlightenment, but all they've done is experienced and debunked their own idea of enlightenment, not enlightenment itself. Or, another thing that happens is that they make up an idea of enlightenment, and simply just chase that forever through psychedelics.

Once the psychedelic wears off, you are not directly conscious of what you were experiencing on the psychedelic anymore, and so it is turned to memory and metabolized by the ego. You have not transcended your biochemical structure as a human (despite what the DMT entity may have told you), and so the chemicals which prevented the ego from functioning properly are eventually out of the body and so you cannot use it as a clutch anymore.

I think it also needs to be said that meditation and psychedelics are two completely different things. They do not serve the same purpose, at all. It is like comparing apples to oranges. I saw a thread recently of a guy asking if he should take psychedelics while meditating, because meditation was too boring for him or something. Like, dude, that completely misses the point of meditation, you're not gonna be able to meditate while you've been transmogrified into a chair. I see many psychedelic users asking whether psychedelics are better than meditation, which is quite silly. They rag on meditation because it didn't transform them into a cartoon wolf after they focused on their breath. The purpose of meditation is not cartoon wolf consciousness, it is enlightenment. The same goes for other sober methods like self-inquiry and yoga or whatever. You can't linearly compare psychedelics to meditation like that, and this contention obviously only exists, because, again, psychedelic users misinterpret what enlightenment is, and so they try to put meditation and other sober methods in the framework of psychedelic experiences.

I said unfortunate at the beginning, but it is really fortunate in retrospect. No need to deal with psychedelic delusions, and it is much simpler than chasing exotic states of consciousness and then creating elaborate concepts and conclusions out of it.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Osaid

[Loveeee]

24 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

I thought his psychedelic kicked in? 😂😂😂😂😂

 

[Water by the River]

10 minutes ago, Osaid said:

...  and metabolized by the ego.

 

 

... and that metabolizing (or at least the attempt of it)  is quite a show.  Not for the faint of heart...  

 

 

[Guest Bazooka Jesus]

3 minutes ago, Water by the River said:

... and that metabolizing (or at least the attempt of it)  is quite a show.  Not for the faint of heart...  

...which is why Carl Jung famously said: "Beware of unearned wisdom".

Even though one might argue that unearned stupidity is even worse.