Post-enlightenment questions

[Princess Arabia]

You obviously are speaking from ego, so why are you asking only persons with no ego left need respond. There is resistance there already and also by your responses. This is going to lead nowhere because there's nowhere for this to go. You are talking to yourself as an already enlightened being pretending there are others; and you are responding back to yourself as yourself. The SELF, that is. You are INSANE. The self, that is. There is none to become Enlightened. Existence just IS. 

[mike41]

Not really on topic.

I do understand now why these threads never go anywhere.

I'll just write a letter to somebody enlightened instead. 

[Francis777]

1 hour ago, mike41 said:

I'm new to being enlightened

Notice that the distinction between not being enlightened and to now living an enlightened life is all your own construction, and not fundamentally different from your old life, enlightenment is a projection.

All you’ve done here is decided to identify as enlightened, the construct is the same as your life “before enlightenment”.

You’ve just changed the content. No new fundamental level of existing has been reached.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Francis777

[mike41]

Well thank you all, this thread has answered the questions.

1) Do you tell people you are enlightened?

No - at best you will experience a complete lack of understanding, at worst everyone will project their own delusions of enlightenment or it's impossibility on you. 

2) Would you tell a romantic partner?  When?

I'll just leave that for the reason above.

3) How do you deal with the empathy and the emotions?

Not really sure but I suppose I can let go of that like everything else.  It's not the worst anyways.

4) Where do you go to meet another person who is enlightened?

I'll just try a few places that seem likely.

[itsadistraction]

4 hours ago, mike41 said:

Please only answers from actually enlightened people as in: you experience the state of enlightenment on a permanent basis with little to no traces of your ego left. The lived experience of enlightenment is quite frankly so different than the rest of my life that a person along the path really holds no answers for me. 

Do you tell people you are enlightened?  It's so difficult to explain and everyone's idea of it is so wrapped up in their own desires and ego that it seems pretty pointless to tell people.  Still I feel that people close to me perhaps deserve an explanation of why I'm different?

Would you tell a romantic partner?  When?

How do you deal with the empathy and the emotions?  Perhaps it's just me because I did not develop my compassion well in my earlier years until being immersed in the world made it impossible to ignore.  It's easy for me to distinguish the right course of action but the intensity of feelings is overwhelming sometimes.  On the other hand I don't want it to go away either.

Where do you go to meet another person who is enlightened?  I'm curious to meet someone else.

Do you think that enlightenment alone is sufficient for teaching in the Zen tradition or does teaching require learning a more formal system?  Should I learn yoga to teach others perhaps?  I'm not sure where I'm going to take all of this, it's rather new.

 

It's like the doctor title. You now can intoduce yourself to everyone as "Mike the Enlightened One"

[Breakingthewall]

13 hours ago, mike41 said:

Sorry I missed that in all the junk.

Enlightenment to me means that my conscious mind is calm and quiet.  I am able to see more clearly the reality around me rather than being bothered by judgements, delusions and internal motivations.  I no longer feel anxiety or fear in significant amounts.  I still find the occasional attachment (the last was an attachment to understanding) but they are quite easily removed.  My attention has turned from inwards to outwards and I experience people in a way that is new to me.   I still learn, but from practical experience.  It's the same life as before but the depth of it has expanded so much that it's quite different. 

Interesting, i think I understand what you mean: that you have come out of the separate mental dynamic, in which you see yourself as a timeline that comes from one point and goes to another point and that needs control, and you have settled into the alive present moment . you could call this enlightenment. You realize that this moment is existence, life, and you open to it.

What I said above about levels of opening is that I see that from here you can access deep mystical states, to penetrate what reality is. From here the interesting thing begins

Edited November 9, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Raze]

Read the end of your world by Adyashanti and after the ecstasy the laundry by Jack Kornfield 

Jeffery Martin has a free course called the explorers course 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Raze

[Max1993]

@mike41 If you meditate daily you will have clarity on what to do, if you feel enlightened your presence will make people ask you how you stay so calm and collected, let people come to you, its backwards, the more you meditate the more clarity you will gain and I assure you all your questions will be answered, and it will be more satisfying than anything you can find here 

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, mike41 said:

Please only answers from actually enlightened people as in: you experience the state of enlightenment on a permanent basis with little to no traces of your ego left. The lived experience of enlightenment is quite frankly so different than the rest of my life that a person along the path really holds no answers for me. 

Do you tell people you are enlightened?  It's so difficult to explain and everyone's idea of it is so wrapped up in their own desires and ego that it seems pretty pointless to tell people.  Still I feel that people close to me perhaps deserve an explanation of why I'm different?

Would you tell a romantic partner?  When?

How do you deal with the empathy and the emotions?  Perhaps it's just me because I did not develop my compassion well in my earlier years until being immersed in the world made it impossible to ignore.  It's easy for me to distinguish the right course of action but the intensity of feelings is overwhelming sometimes.  On the other hand I don't want it to go away either.

Where do you go to meet another person who is enlightened?  I'm curious to meet someone else.

Do you think that enlightenment alone is sufficient for teaching in the Zen tradition or does teaching require learning a more formal system?  Should I learn yoga to teach others perhaps?  I'm not sure where I'm going to take all of this, it's rather new.

 

1. Do you tell people you are enlightened? Enlightenment is a game like anything else. If you truly understand what Enlightenment is...who are you telling? One of the problems with Enlightenment is it can create a Spiritual Ego that wants to brag that it is Enlightened. It's a normal trap though and part of the process. 

2. Would you tell a romantic partner? It depends, if they show signs of wanting to pursue the path then I'd offer some guidance. Outside of that I would just drop breadcrumbs that are equivalent to the level they are at. This takes a certain level of discernment to do that though.

3. Where do you go to meet another person who is enlightened? I believe there are certain people on this forum who are enlightened based on their posts and responses. So the answer is here, but I don't know anybody in my local area who is.

4. Do you think that enlightenment alone is sufficient for teaching in the Zen tradition or does teaching require learning a more formal system? Part of Enlightenment is expressing your unique perspective. Why are you trying to teach the Zen tradition specifically? Are you aware of the limitations of the Zen tradition? Once enlightened if you have the skill of teaching and expressing in words you won't need to use any formal system. 

5. Describe your current subjective experience since you make the claim that you are enlightened. How do you experience reality?

Edited November 8, 2023 by Razard86

[Yimpa]

5 hours ago, mike41 said:

Where do you go to meet another person who is enlightened?  I'm curious to meet someone else.

Nowhere.

Stop creating a duality between enlightened state and non enlightened state.

[Yimpa]

1 hour ago, mike41 said:

I'll just write a letter to somebody enlightened instead. 

You’re always writing to yourself, so to write.

[Dazgwny]

If you were fully enlightened on a permanent basis you would be fully aware there is not another to answer your questions. Also there should be zero responses to this thread taking into account what you have asked need only respond

[mike41]

 

1 hour ago, Raze said:

Read the end of your world by Adyashanti and after the ecstasy the laundry by Jack Kornfield 

Jeffery Martin has a free course called the explorers course 

@Raze Thank you, I will read those.

 

56 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

5. Describe your current subjective experience since you make the claim that you are enlightened. How do you experience reality?

@Razard86 I did somewhere in the middle of this thread. 

56 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

4. Do you think that enlightenment alone is sufficient for teaching in the Zen tradition or does teaching require learning a more formal system? Part of Enlightenment is expressing your unique perspective. Why are you trying to teach the Zen tradition specifically? Are you aware of the limitations of the Zen tradition? Once enlightened if you have the skill of teaching and expressing in words you won't need to use any formal system.

I don't really have a lineage or anything.  The Zen books I read were very focused on gaining practical experience of your own rather than sitting around reading books.  So I read for a while, took what I could understand and made my way into the world to practice the rest of it.  Then honestly I forgot I was practicing or about enlightenment as a concept.  So now I feel that I can teach but I have not yet obtained clarity on whether or not it's my place or if it's possible for me to do harm.  There are a lot of formal systems designed to achieve the goal of enlightenment from Buddhist traditions to yoga and I thought it might make sense to learn one.

47 minutes ago, Yimpa said:

You’re always writing to yourself, so to write.

Yes a good point.  I did figure out the answer to my own question above.  People get so worked up about the idea of enlightenment that it's best not mentioned.  I put that it was useless, but really it's worse than useless, it's destructive to the conversation.

Edited November 8, 2023 by mike41

[Razard86]

14 minutes ago, mike41 said:

 

@Raze Thank you, I will read those.

 

@Razard86 I did somewhere in the middle of this thread. 

I don't really have a lineage or anything.  The Zen books I read were very focused on gaining practical experience of your own rather than sitting around reading books.  So I read for a while, took what I could understand and made my way into the world to practice the rest of it.  Then honestly I forgot I was practicing or about enlightenment as a concept.  So now I feel that I can teach but I have not yet obtained clarity on whether or not it's my place or if it's possible for me to do harm.  There are a lot of formal systems designed to achieve the goal of enlightenment from Buddhist traditions to yoga and I thought it might make sense to learn one.

Yes a good point.  I did figure out the answer to my own question above.  People get so worked up about the idea of enlightenment that it's best not mentioned.  It accomplishes literally nothing.

1. Just explain your experience of reality. I don't see it in the thread.

2. You don't need a lineage, you teach what you are aware of. Based on a few of your responses I don't think you are enlightened because you don't need qualifications to teach. Teaching is just a sharing of what you are aware of. If you don't want to view yourself as a teacher because you think it is arrogant, just reconceptualize yourself as a sharer and share instead of teaching.

Also...enlightenment is imaginary just like nonenlightenment is imaginary as well.

[mike41]

14 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

1. Just explain your experience of reality. I don't see it in the thread.

 

Enlightenment to me means that my conscious mind is calm and quiet.  I am able to see more clearly the reality around me rather than being bothered by judgements, delusions and internal motivations.  I no longer feel anxiety or fear in significant amounts.  I still find the occasional attachment (the last was an attachment to understanding) but they are quite easily removed.  My attention has turned from inwards to outwards and I experience people in a way that is new to me.   I still learn, but from practical experience.  It's the same life as before but the depth of it has expanded so much that it's quite different. 

 

[Razard86]

29 minutes ago, mike41 said:

Enlightenment to me means that my conscious mind is calm and quiet.  I am able to see more clearly the reality around me rather than being bothered by judgements, delusions and internal motivations.  I no longer feel anxiety or fear in significant amounts.  I still find the occasional attachment (the last was an attachment to understanding) but they are quite easily removed.  My attention has turned from inwards to outwards and I experience people in a way that is new to me.   I still learn, but from practical experience.  It's the same life as before but the depth of it has expanded so much that it's quite different. 

 

Do you still feel a physical separation, or has that boundary dropped? 

[mike41]

17 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Do you still feel a physical separation, or has that boundary dropped? 

I feel like I am melting into people.  Not so much for stuff like chairs.

 

Edit:

I just started reading The End of Your World and it's really explaining a lot to me.  It probably contains the answers to my questions within.

Edited November 9, 2023 by mike41

[Yimpa]

11 minutes ago, mike41 said:

I feel like I am melting into people.  Not so much for stuff like chairs.

I got a girl to sit in the passenger seat of my car today without even trying.

When you stop trying to manipulate reality, shit just happens.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Yimpa

[mike41]

I know what you mean.  I recently started dating again and I had to immediately scrub all the old methods of dating from 15 years ago.  They were just wholly unsuited to my current condition.

Well I have a date in an hour anyways, better go get ready for that.

[Razard86]

28 minutes ago, mike41 said:

I feel like I am melting into people.  Not so much for stuff like chairs.

 

Edit:

I just started reading The End of Your World and it's really explaining a lot to me.  It probably contains the answers to my questions within.

Based on your descriptions you are still experiencing separation. When you are fully enlightened you will know ABSOLUTELY that you and everyone you know is pure imagination appearing in Universal Mind. You will cease to experience any separation whatsoever.