The real reason the world is obsessed with Israel

[Breakingthewall]

Israel is criticized because it is a democratic nation with Western values that is committing war crimes against another nation. It is not the same as if a dictator from the Congo does it, we already know that dictators do that

[MuadDib]

3 hours ago, DawnC said:

"As of 2013, the State of Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC). Since the UNHRC's creation in 2006, it has resolved almost as many resolutions condemning Israel alone than on issues for the rest of the world combined. The 45 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the UNHRC, not counting those under Agenda Item 10 (countries requiring technical assistance)."

Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel.

And this time period includes: The war in Darfur, Iraq war, Houthi insurgency in Yemen, Chadian Civil War, Fatah–Hamas conflict, Iraqi Civil War, war in Somalia, Libyan civil wars, Syrian civil war, Russo-Ukrainian war, war against ISIS and many many more. You don't see a problem here? Do you not find it concerning that Israel (a liberal democracy) has received more condemnation regarding human rights than Syria, Iran, North Korea, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Eritrea, China, and Russia all combined?

Is this an accurate representation. I skimmed the page and it said this list doesn't include countries listed under a different category?

 

"The 45 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the UNHRC, not counting those under Agenda Item 10 (countries requiring technical assistance)"

 

Do you know what this agenda item 10 is and what other countries and violations are listed under it?

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, MuadDib said:

Green wants to invite Red to dinner. Red has Green for dinner.

I love pork ... mmmmhmm neither halal or kosher or vegan.

 

Its a beautiful thing. Such wonderful love.

[DawnC]

4 hours ago, Merkabah Star said:

Just wanted to say, I like your energy and I like how you deliver your comments on this topic. You are a class act. ❤️

……………. Appreciated! ❤️

The UN condemning Israel is fair. You can’t just do what you want if you are a first world country. That’s not the world being obsessed with Israel and calling Israel out is not anti semitism at all. 

 

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Israel is criticized because it is a democratic nation with Western values that is committing war crimes against another nation. It is not the same as if a dictator from the Congo does it, we already know that dictators do that

 

It's fine to hold Israel to a higher standard than non-democratic regimes. The thing is, the UN is not an organization solely run by Western countries and responsible for upholding Western values in the Western world. In realistic analysis, the UN is a global organization also influenced by China, Russia, and over 50 Muslim countries, providing a platform for countries to pursue their own interests (many of these countries couldn't care less about human rights and western values). And it is unwise to overlook the fact that many of these countries harbor societies with antisemitic inclinations. Consider, for example, the motto of the Houthi movement, read Hamas' charter, examine Iran's society, explore Pakistani society, and observe Russian propaganda these days - the antisemitic sentiments in these societies are not negligible. They manifest in actual political policies, and this is evident in many other countries (there are even patterns in Latin America).

I don't think that the western world is antisemitic in general. There is antisemitism present in both the far right and the far left (ironically), but these are both negligible in the West. But I do see two influences of antisemitism in the West. First, there are immigrant communities in these countries with non-negligible influence that exhibit antisemitic inclinations, especially certain Muslim communities. The other factor is that western countries are very susceptible to anti-Israeli messages that allegedly stem from concerns about human rights violations, but are actually rooted in antisemitism. This includes many proposals to condemn Israel in the UN originating from the Muslim world. The fact that countries like Syria or Saudi Arabia can initiate a proposal to condemn Israel over human rights is absurd. The BDS movement is another example of this. The influence of Qatar on the media and academia in the West is another. This cannot be dismissed as negligible.

And the last thing - Yes, it's fine to hold Israel to a higher standard than non-democratic regimes. Unfortunately, even without concrete antisemitism, these so-called 'higher standards' are often a slippery slope towards a hostile approach that reflects a deep confusion about which is the liberal democracy that genuinely cares about human rights (even when you consider them to violate some), and which is the terroristic, barbaric, cult-like, non-democratic society with zero regard for human life and human rights. 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by DawnC

[DawnC]

1 hour ago, MuadDib said:

Is this an accurate representation. I skimmed the page and it said this list doesn't include countries listed under a different category?

 

"The 45 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the UNHRC, not counting those under Agenda Item 10 (countries requiring technical assistance)"

 

Do you know what this agenda item 10 is and what other countries and violations are listed under it?

I'm not entirely sure, but research the entire organization in all matters. The cause can be debated, but the existence of the pattern is pretty obvious.

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, MuadDib said:

Jews are sneaky af.

If Jews are sneaky per your prejudice, then how would you define non-Jews?

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, DawnC said:

 

 

It's fine to hold Israel to a higher standard than non-democratic regimes. The thing is, the UN is not an organization solely run by Western countries and responsible for upholding Western values in the Western world. In realistic analysis, the UN is a global organization also influenced by China, Russia, and over 50 Muslim countries, providing a platform for countries to pursue their own interests (many of these countries couldn't care less about human rights and western values). And it is unwise to overlook the fact that many of these countries harbor societies with antisemitic inclinations. Consider, for example, the motto of the Houthi movement, read Hamas' charter, examine Iran's society, explore Pakistani society, and observe Russian propaganda these days - the antisemitic sentiments in these societies are not negligible. They manifest in actual political policies, and this is evident in many other countries (there are even patterns in Latin America).

I don't think that the western world is antisemitic in general. There is antisemitism present in both the far right and the far left (ironically), but these are both negligible in the West. But I do see two influences of antisemitism in the West. First, there are immigrant communities in these countries with non-negligible influence that exhibit antisemitic inclinations, especially certain Muslim communities. The other factor is that western countries are very susceptible to anti-Israeli messages that allegedly stem from concerns about human rights violations, but are actually rooted in antisemitism. This includes many proposals to condemn Israel in the UN originating from the Muslim world. The fact that countries like Syria or Saudi Arabia can initiate a proposal to condemn Israel over human rights is absurd. The BDS movement is another example of this. The influence of Qatar on the media and academia in the West is another. This cannot be dismissed as negligible.

And the last thing - Yes, it's fine to hold Israel to a higher standard than non-democratic regimes. Unfortunately, even without concrete antisemitism, these so-called 'higher standards' are often a slippery slope towards a hostile approach that reflects a deep confusion about which is the liberal democracy that genuinely cares about human rights (even when you consider them to violate some), and which is the terroristic, barbaric, cult-like, non-democratic society with zero regard for human life and human rights. 

 

It is a good analysis but I believe that there is another very important factor in this matter, and that is the fact of humiliating Muslim civilization. This civilization has rivaled the West for hundreds of years, and since the 19th century it has fallen far behind. They strive not to be completely left behind but with little success. This feeling of inferiority has caused radicalization and rejection of the West that is increasing, and this is important given the size of the Islamic world: there are many.

Then Israel's small local problem with the Palestinians appears, which also touches on emblematic places of the Muslim faith, where there has been much dispute for centuries. Jerusalem has been an obsessive issue for a long time.

The reality is that when Israel humiliates the Palestinians, that humiliation is felt by the entire Muslim world, and no one wants to touch the balls of 1,5 billion people. That's why the entire West wants everything to develop in the fairest way possible.

[Karmadhi]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Hamas is more anti Israel than anti jews in my opinion, but also its greater goal is to eliminate the west similarly to Isis

I am not talking about Hamas here nor ISIS.

I am talking about attacking sovereign countries against all international law like they did for Iraq or Libya. 

 

[Karmadhi]

5 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Phobia from Islam is more rational as there are radical Islamic terrorists who brought lots of terror and fear to the west and still sow fear and terror in the middle east, this fear has some grip in reality

And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect.

The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks.

Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East.

Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries.

If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with.

How come the attacks are not happening anywhere else?

Edited November 7, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Nivsch]

13 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

I am not talking about Hamas here nor ISIS.

I am talking about attacking sovereign countries against all international law like they did for Iraq or Libya. 

 

If you have a better way to defeat a terror organization who tights himself in a gordian knot as tight as possible with the civilians to deffend itself, I will be happy to hear. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Nivsch

[DawnC]

52 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is a good analysis but I believe that there is another very important factor in this matter, and that is the fact of humiliating Muslim civilization. This civilization has rivaled the West for hundreds of years, and since the 19th century it has fallen far behind. They strive not to be completely left behind but with little success. This feeling of inferiority has caused radicalization and rejection of the West that is increasing, and this is important given the size of the Islamic world: there are many.

Then Israel's small local problem with the Palestinians appears, which also touches on emblematic places of the Muslim faith, where there has been much dispute for centuries. Jerusalem has been an obsessive issue for a long time.

The reality is that when Israel humiliates the Palestinians, that humiliation is felt by the entire Muslim world, and no one wants to touch the balls of 1,5 billion people. That's why the entire West wants everything to develop in the fairest way possible.

Good point. I agree. The feeling of humiliation is very strong in the Muslim world, especially in Arab societies, and it does create fertile ground for extreme ideologies. I'm not certain about what would be a wise policy to address this issue. I'm not convinced that absolving the Palestinians of responsibility for their problematic policies and actions, attempting to establish a moral equivalence, or aligning with the Muslim world's hostility towards Israel, for the sake of avoiding further provocation, is the right decision. But genuinely, Idk. I'm no sure because I believe those feelings arise from a genuine failure and a noticeably less developed and just social order, that is also less successful. I'm not sure that encouraging the notion of finding someone to blame is very wise.

Edited November 7, 2023 by DawnC

[DawnC]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

It is a good analysis but I believe that there is another very important factor in this matter, and that is the fact of humiliating Muslim civilization. This civilization has rivaled the West for hundreds of years, and since the 19th century it has fallen far behind. They strive not to be completely left behind but with little success. This feeling of inferiority has caused radicalization and rejection of the West that is increasing, and this is important given the size of the Islamic world: there are many.

Then Israel's small local problem with the Palestinians appears, which also touches on emblematic places of the Muslim faith, where there has been much dispute for centuries. Jerusalem has been an obsessive issue for a long time.

The reality is that when Israel humiliates the Palestinians, that humiliation is felt by the entire Muslim world, and no one wants to touch the balls of 1,5 billion people. That's why the entire West wants everything to develop in the fairest way possible.

I've thought about it more, and that's actually a very good point. It's a crucial element in why this conflict is so widely discussed. In a sense, Israel, and its perceived superiority over the Palestinians, serve as a living reminder of the failure of the Arab world and the success of the West. This generates a great deal of hostility.

Edited November 7, 2023 by DawnC

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, DawnC said:

I've thought about it more, and that's actually a very good point. It's a crucial element in why this conflict is so widely discussed. In a sense, Israel, and its perceived superiority over the Palestinians, serve as a living reminder of the failure of the Arab world and the success of the West. This generates a great deal of hostility.

4 hours ago, DawnC said:

 

 

 

The problem is that Islam feels inferior because it is. It is a toxic philosophy that humiliates and limits humans in favor of an imaginary god. It castrates human creativity, transforms it into fear and hypocrisy.

The only way Islamic civilization could flourish is by ceasing to be Islamic, but that is a humiliation they do not want to go through. They are not practical like the Chinese, who put their emperor to work as a gardener in the name of a Western philosophy, Marxism, and that break with the past freed them from the chains that held them back and they will soon be the first world power.

[PurpleTree]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

How come the attacks are not happening anywhere else?

Because they don‘t let the refugees from the middle east in

[Nivsch]

The video:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzW0s5INNPh/?igshid=MTI4N2FqZXJodnplMA==

Edited November 7, 2023 by Nivsch

[zazen]

Caitlin Johnston from twitter: 

“One of the reasons this specific bombing campaign is getting so much more public backlash than others is because the pro-Palestine movement has had generations to build, whereas when the US empire lays waste to a country using military explosives it's normally a fast ordeal which moves from manufacturing consent to execution very quickly. By the time people figure out they were lied to about the justifications for a depraved war the empire is usually two or three new wars down the track. The Israel-Palestine issue has been just sitting there for decades, so there's been time to accumulate popular opposition. Once someone learns about the realities of the Palestinian plight they very seldom abandon their support for it, so every newly-opened pair of eyes stays open on this issue for a lifetime.
 

Another major reason is because of humanity's exponentially expanded ability to rapidly share information in recent years. Palestinians have become able to record the abuses of Israeli apartheid and bombing campaigns on their phones and upload them onto the internet, where they rapidly circulate on social media. This ability to rapidly circulate raw video footage has played a major role in Israel's PR problem in recent years, because there's nothing an Israel apologist can say that will have more impact than raw footage of an Israeli settler telling a Palestinian family that he stole their home because "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it." This killed off a lot of public sympathy for Israel in the lead-up to the current onslaught.

Another reason is because the pro-Palestine movement was carried on the tide of the global movement against apartheid South Africa, giving the world a framework to understand Israeli abuses and helping to build the base of a related cause.

Another reason is because many of us in colonized countries like Australia, the US and Canada recognize the patterns of what's happening in Israel and see that there's an opportunity for human history to get it right this time before the genocide machine really gets going.

Another reason is because the abuses of the Israeli regime are so glaringly obvious and uncomplicated that they can override all the propaganda and cognitive biases we are swimming in in western civilization. All most people need is to really see it and wrap their minds around what they're seeing, and truth does the rest of the work for them. That was true before the Gaza massacre began, and it's so much more true now.”

Edited November 7, 2023 by zazen

[Basman]

21 minutes ago, zazen said:

Caitlin Johnston from twitter: 

One of the reasons this specific bombing campaign is getting so much more public backlash than others is because the pro-Palestine movement has had generations to build, whereas when the US empire lays waste to a country using military explosives it's normally a fast ordeal which moves from manufacturing consent to execution very quickly. By the time people figure out they were lied to about the justifications for a depraved war the empire is usually two or three new wars down the track. The Israel-Palestine issue has been just sitting there for decades, so there's been time to accumulate popular opposition. Once someone learns about the realities of the Palestinian plight they very seldom abandon their support for it, so every newly-opened pair of eyes stays open on this issue for a lifetime.
 

Another major reason is because of humanity's exponentially expanded ability to rapidly share information in recent years. Palestinians have become able to record the abuses of Israeli apartheid and bombing campaigns on their phones and upload them onto the internet, where they rapidly circulate on social media. This ability to rapidly circulate raw video footage has played a major role in Israel's PR problem in recent years, because there's nothing an Israel apologist can say that will have more impact than raw footage of an Israeli settler telling a Palestinian family that he stole their home because "If I don't steal it, someone else is gonna steal it." This killed off a lot of public sympathy for Israel in the lead-up to the current onslaught.

Another reason is because the pro-Palestine movement was carried on the tide of the global movement against apartheid South Africa, giving the world a framework to understand Israeli abuses and helping to build the base of a related cause.

Another reason is because many of us in colonized countries like Australia, the US and Canada recognize the patterns of what's happening in Israel and see that there's an opportunity for human history to get it right this time before the genocide machine really gets going.

Another reason is because the abuses of the Israeli regime are so glaringly obvious and uncomplicated that they can override all the propaganda and cognitive biases we are swimming in in western civilization. All most people need is to really see it and wrap their minds around what they're seeing, and truth does the rest of the work for them. That was true before the Gaza massacre began, and it's so much more true now.

The top paragraph is the quote and the rest your own input, no?

[Karmadhi]

8 hours ago, Nivsch said:

If you have a better way to defeat a terror organization who tights himself in a gordian knot as tight as possible with the civilians to deffend itself, I will be happy to hear

Through understanding that your policies created them and work towards a better life for people in Palestine, removing toxic people from governments and giving them their own state.

By becoming the better man and fighting violence with love and maturity.

Like Nelson Mandela did it.

Also some surgical attacks for necessary self defense but never if the civilian casualties exceed your own.

I know it is very very hard to do but a very very hard problem requires a very very hard solution.

Since Israel is richer, has more support and more developed it has the responsibility to do this.

And of course Hamas leaders should be imprisoned for war crimes. Proper punishment to the people that did it.

But it can be done through years.

A nice comment I recently read: "The occupier never has the right of self defense against the occupier and Israeli is an occupying power over the Palestinian people".

Edited November 8, 2023 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

@PurpleTree

And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect.

The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks.

Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East.

Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries.

If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with.

Dont ignore this part.

A country is responsible for the terrorism it gets because of their bad policies. Terrorism is like when you feel sick, it shows that something is wrong with what you have been doing.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Karmadhi

[PurpleTree]

22 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@PurpleTree

And why do they do those things in the West? It is cause and effect.

The West attacked them illegally and fucked them over, therefore they do those attacks.

Bin Laden used to be funded by Americans ones to fight the soviets, ISIS is the product of Western bullshit on the Middle East.

Not to mention the totally illegal invasions of Libya or Iraq which were soveirgn countries.

If the West minded its own business and let Middle East alone you would not have attacks to begin with.

Dont ignore this part.

A country is responsible for the terrorism it gets because of their bad policies. Terrorism is like when you feel sick, it shows that something is wrong with what you have been doing.

So you’re always the victim?

nice