Forgiveness

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 7/2/2016 at 9:04 AM, Ayla said:

What about if someone raped you... or your sister/mother? Or somebody killed your dog or your child? 

Can you see it then?  

 

If you dwell on these things you torture yourself and you could get ulsers, depression and insomnia. No one deserves this so dont hurt yourself trying to get revenge in your mind hurts you too. 

Maybe you dont know how good you are at forgiving. For example you have already forgiven all of the atrosities you know about and thats alot of forgiving. You dont go around letting all the bad things that happened in history ruin your day. You could, if I tell you to focus on all the burned people in Hiroshima after the bombing, their children and  all the damage that was caused and said ¨this guy here did that!¨, you would freak out and punch him in the gut! But if you dont think about it you have already forgiven him You let it go, you let the slave drivers who profit from your iphone off the hook, you forgive the farmers who sprayed roundup on your salad, you forgive all the teachers who made you sit down for 15 years when you wanted to play outside. You are really good at this you just didnt know it. Its just not convienient not to forgive thats your truth so you pick and choose when you think you need to.. its not justice at all! So are you really better than they are, or do you make mistakes too? 

[Ayla]

@Kevin Dunlop

I am at a point in my journey where I really do not have anything at all to forgive. Nothing has ever done anything wrong to me. Things just happen. That is all. For example, you get burnt by fire. Do you need to forgive fire? No, you don't. That doesn't mean you'd jump into it anytime soon by the way. 

[Kevin Dunlop]

3 hours ago, Ayla said:

@Kevin Dunlop

I am at a point in my journey where I really do not anything at all to forgive. Nothing has ever done anything wrong to me. Things just happen. That is all. For example, you get burnt by fire. Do you need to forgive fire? No, you don't. That doesn't mean you'd jump into it anytime soon by the way. 

yes Iam in the process of training this state of automatic forgiveness. Luckily thats all it takes for me, finding the error in my conditioning, finding a better concept, remembering to replace it enough times and then enjoy the automatic freedom of incorporated improvements. Isnt the mind great that way:) Its greatest flaw is also its greatest strength

 

[pluto]

[Xpansion]

My experience with forgiveness is that its something that has to happen as part of a process.  I can't force myself to forgive.  It has to come as a step after I have processed some other stuff, maybe sadness and anger etc.    I also think that many times it is something you may need to continually do again and again.  For example with my parents I may forgive them but then more and more layers of anger and sadness may come up and I have to keep letting it go and forgiving.   Its a work in progress.

[sgn]

Just wanted to make a recommendation of a book:
Forgiveness: How to Make Peace With Your Past and Get on With Your Life

Very detailed and in depth book. It describes all the stages of the healing process and contains a lot of exercises.

[Vinsanity]

@Ayla @Flower What I realize is that what I think is forgiveness is actually just me overlooking the person's actions and just saying I forgive you because in my mind that is what a good person would do. But then I end up just being passive aggressive to them. How do I obtain true forgiveness and not this superficial one? 

Also, along my journey I realize how neurotic I am in my self improvement, and I was wondering if you guys have some good sources or links that would help me out (I've seen all of leo's vids on this subject). Thanks a lot guys. it means a lot 

[eskwire]

The Heart of the Revolution by Noah Levine discusses forgiveness as a moment to moment letting go rather than the hard and fast, "I forgive you because I know shit happens and I also totally forget about it forever." That's unrealistic. You can feel resentful one moment and forgiving the next. What's wrong with that? Maybe with time and constantly letting the grudge rise and fall, it will die because you're not feeding or resisting it.

My last bf had a Jesus complex and reminds me a zen devil. He judged me for not "FULLY" forgiving my parents for my childhood. He said that "working on it" was not forgiveness and having any remaining negative emotions ever meant that I had not forgiven. Many people see it this way. I think it's a childish and simplistic idea. I also felt that it was devoid of compassion for me. 

Anyway! To me, forgiveness is a state of NOT feeling a grudge and that is temporary. It may last for years at a time, but it's a phenomenon like any other. 

[eskwire]

5 hours ago, eskwire said:

The Heart of the Revolution by Noah Levine discusses forgiveness as a moment to moment letting go rather than the hard and fast, "I forgive you because I know shit happens and I also totally forget about it forever." That's unrealistic. You can feel resentful one moment and forgiving the next. What's wrong with that? Maybe with time and constantly letting the grudge rise and fall, it will die because you're not feeding or resisting it.

My last bf had a Jesus complex and reminds me a zen devil. He judged me for not "FULLY" forgiving my parents for my childhood. He said that "working on it" was not forgiveness and having any remaining negative emotions ever meant that I had not forgiven. Many people see it this way. I think it's a childish and simplistic idea. I also felt that it was devoid of compassion for me. 

Anyway! To me, forgiveness is a state of NOT feeling a grudge and that is temporary. It may last for years at a time, but it's a phenomenon like any other. 

I'm smiling because, after writing this, I checked out @Leo Gura's latest video and it was about anger.

What he says is true. We need to understand that shit happens. We also need to understand that we are labeling something as "shit," and maybe it's not said shit.

Like he said, he's laying out an ideal. So, what's the reality? The reality is you can understand and have compassion one day. Then, maybe on another day when you're tired or physically drained, you forget your understanding.

I save all of my Byron Katie work in my journal. I often have to look back at what I wrote when resentment comes back up because...well, I forgot the great insight I had. The anger I mentally repeated 1000 times got more neuropathways than the smart, compassionate breakthrough I had one time. 

This is how forgiveness can be temporary. It will most likely be that way until you are suuuuper developed. 

My concern about notions of forgiveness is that it can become neurotic. Was my ex bf being helpful when he was chastising me to be more forgiving? Never even asking what had happened to help me understand it? Am I being helpful when I feel guilty and ashamed for not being more forgiving?

Our own resentments are something to be understood and treated with compassion. They will change and maybe even disappear over the course of a process. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by eskwire

[Guest Annetta]

@eskwire It's true, there are moment of clarity where I feel forgiveness, acceptance and love but being angry and resentful is my default.  It's not easy to let go of an entire lifetime of stories... don't know wot to fill my mind with then.

[Vinsanity]

@eskwire Thanks for the thoughtful response! That's definitely something i am going to keep in mind. I always saw forgiveness as "FULL"forgiveness, I never really saw it as something that could be worked on and maybe even forgotten over time.

Also, how do you organize your insights? I'm curious because the way I am doing it right now seems inefficient :p. 

Thanks again  

 

[Vinsanity]

@eskwire Ooops my b. Thought you were someone else that answered my question haha...awk

[eskwire]

@Vinsanity Hehe my post was relevant to your question, though! If it's any help to you, that's great. I've acted with a lot of passive aggression in my day. 

Organizing insights...I really wish I had practical advice for you! I think so much, by the time I'm ready to speak, the thoughts have organized themselves into a story. 

[Vinsanity]

@eskwire Haha yeah, your post  really resonated with what I was thinking so I thought it was directed towards me  

Just wondering though, how did you deal with your passive aggressiveness back then? 

[eskwire]

@Vinsanity Well! I am less passive aggressive now but probably because I'm much more accepting. If angry, I probably still fall into passive aggressive behaviors.

We should both look into assertiveness. That's probably the skill we are lacking. Want to?

[Vinsanity]

@eskwire Yeah after thinking a bit about these posts, I guess at the end of the day I would rather be truthful to myself and not fully forgive someone than have the image that I am forgiving someone,yet deep inside I haven't, which leads to passive aggressiveness. 

Assertiveness huh? Can you go into a little more detail about that? The correlation doesn't seem to click for me haha

And ya, sounds like a plan 

[eskwire]

@Vinsanity You said that very well. Really hit the nail on the head. "I'm so forgiving, I repress all of the naturally occurring feelings that I don't control that happen in conjunction with the thoughts I don't control." The point is compassion. For everyone, including you.

To me, assertiveness is the skill of meaning what you say and saying what you mean. That doesn't have to be done from a drama queen place. It can be done from a place of understanding and simplicity.

It's something I marvel at, seeing high functioning people do business and navigate their personal lives. If we are passive aggressive, that's exactly what we're not doing.

Message me anytime. I'd love an accountability buddy on that. <3

[Vinsanity]

@eskwire Yeah, that is something that I often forget but is so important. Compassion is for everyone, including myself. 

Definitely, assertiveness is something that I also strive for as well, being a low self-esteem person for a majority of my life. Now that you mention it, having assertiveness will be like killing two birds with one stone for me haha, in terms of both self-esteem and understanding authentic forgiveness.

I think I'm going to start by dusting off the book "six pillars of self-esteem" in my cabinet and start cracking down on the book .

And Yep! I gotchu  

[Peace and Love]

Here is a holistic approach to forgiveness.

I love this book....Louise Hay - You Can Heal your Life. 

pg 8

All Dis-ease Comes from a State of Unforgiveness

Whenever we are ill, we need to search our hearts to see who it is we need to forgive.

The Course in Miracles says that "all dis-ease comes from a state of forgiveness," and that "whenever we are ill, we need to look around to see who it is that we need to forgive."

I would add to that concept that the very person you find it hardest to forgive is the one YOU NEED TO LET GO OF THE MOST.   Forgiveness means giving up, letting go.  It has nothing to do with condoning behavior.  It's just letting the whole thing go.  We do not have to know HOW to forgive.  All we need to do is be WILLING to forgive.  The Universe will take care of the hows.

We understand our own pain so well. How hard it is for most of us to understand THEY, whoever they are we need most to forgive, were also in pain.  We need to understand that they were doing  the best they could with the understanding, awareness, and knowledge they had at the time. 

When people come to me with a problem, I don't care what it is--- poor health, lack of money, unfulfilling relationships, or stifled creativity --- there is only one thing I ever work on, and that is LOVING THE SELF.

I find that when we really love and accept and APPROVE of OURSELVES EXACTLY AS WE ARE, then everything in life works.  It's as if little miracles are everywhere.  Our health improves, we attract more money, our relationships become much more fulfilling and we begin to express ourselves in creatively fulfilling ways.  All this seems to happen without our even trying.


To Release the Past, We Must Be Willing to Forgive

We need to choose to release the past and forgive everyone, ourselves included.

Affirmation"  I forgive you for not being the way I wanted you to be. I forgive you and set you free."

[Nahm]

On 2/6/2016 at 2:04 AM, Ayla said:

In my own journey, I have noticed big and small miracles taking place once I managed to forgive people and situations. 

I am talking here about real forgiveness, the one that is replacing hate/fear with unconditional love. 

I think this is a topic that has its place in this forum. What is your experience with forgiveness ? 

Anger is like holding a hot coal in your hand and expecting someone else to feel the pain. Forgiveness is dropping the coal.