Forgiveness

[Guest]

A great line in the movie the Revolver that hit me recently: 

If you try to destroy him (the mind) to save them, they'll destroy you to save him

[JevinR]

"The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong" - Mahatma Gandhi
 

[Flower]

On 5 February 2016 at 7:04 AM, Ayla said:

In my own journey, I have noticed big and small miracles taking place once I managed to forgive people and situations. 

I am talking here about real forgiveness, the one that is replaces hate/fear with unconditional love. 

I think this is a topic that has its place in this forum. What is your experience with forgiveness ? 

I have had the same experience. Real forgiveness is truly liberating. ( as oppose to the pseudo-forgiveness where we superficially 'overlook' what the other has done in order to be the 'better person').

We can forgive others truly when we realise that we too have hurt others and in all of mankind there is the potential for evil- even within ourselves. However, we cannot let that reign over us because LOVE is superior (not us ) so we can be compassionate towards the situation or the person, and as Leo rightly pointed out this in turn is compassion to our own selves.

As Buddha said 'If your compassion includes everyone except yourself, it is incomplete'  

Edited April 14, 2016 by Flower

[Armand]

@Flower It's interesting to see someone with such a strong sense of spirituality. It's nice seeing people that are compassionate towards improving themselves, but also are here to help encourage others to follow by their example. You my friend are a very inspiring individual with so much to offer this world. 

[Flower]

@Holdup  Thank you, that's very kind. 

I love that about this forum, people are so helpful and kind.  

Peace to you! 

[Elton]

@Ayla i don't really remember forgiving anyone...  I know that I get angry and vindictive, but that feeling goes away and then I forget about the situation but I don't sit down and consciously forgive someone, do you think that it might have an effect in my life and deep down I might get angry? I think that might be the case... 

[Ayla]

On 5/29/2016 at 6:40 AM, Elton said:

@Ayla i don't really remember forgiving anyone...  I know that I get angry and vindictive, but that feeling goes away and then I forget about the situation but I don't sit down and consciously forgive someone, do you think that it might have an effect in my life and deep down I might get angry? I think that might be the case... 

If you think it might be the case, why would you need any "outer" validation (mine for example)? Look into that maybe  

Forgiveness usually comes first. Forgetting that a person hurt you deeply, is not sane and it will surface in one way or another. It is not real forgiveness. 

The only way to really forgive someone that you perceive hurt you, is to sit deeply with that hurt and feel it properly until it shows its "other side" - deep compassion, understanding and love, so that, next time that person comes to mind, your heart fills with joy and warmth. 

Now in practical terms, I've said it before, you might absolutely ADORE fire, but you wouldn't throw yourself into it. What I mean by that is that when you know that a person is not where you are in terms of consciousness or behavior, the most loving thing to do is to stay/keep them away. 

 

[Elton]

On 30/05/2016 at 0:57 AM, Ayla said:

If you think it might be the case, why would you need any "outer" validation (mine for example)? Look into that maybe

This question has caused turbulence in my mind...I don't need any outer validation....I'll just try to feel this emotion completely. 

[Andre]

@Ayla I have had a severely traumatic experience 10 years ago. I thought I got over it but subconsciously it affects my behavior. any ideas to recover?

[Ayla]

@Andre , sure. Think about this: whom do that pain you are feeling affects? 

If you yell at a porcelain figure, will it be hurt? If you keep the hate and the blame and the shame, will it be hurt? 

You are now more equipped for the future THANKS to those experiences. You might be avoiding even bigger trauma because of the fact that that you have learnt those lessons. You might be a lot kinder to people because of them. 

This of a small mountain stream flowing down the mountain. In its way, it encounters a dead tree, some rocks....is the river hurt by those? It's just shaped a certain way. Now imagine a huge rock breaking off the mountain and falling into the river. Did the rock wanted to hurt the river or was it just how things happened? Who's to blame and who's to pity? 

 

Once you take the "bad" label off the things that happened, the forgiveness comes. 

[Andre]

@Ayla ok. lets take a human scenario, A girl was raped by four men, her father, uncle and two other at the same time. she was four and is now 14. Her parents are still married and she still lives with them.  How would she deal?

[Ayla]

3 minutes ago, Andre said:

@Ayla ok. lets take a human scenario, A girl was raped by four men, her father, uncle and two other at the same time. she was four and is now 14. Her parents are still married and she still lives with them.  How would she deal?

There are many scenarios like that in the world. As a general rule, remove yourself from the threatening situation.

Seek to understand where the growth is and where you can be empowered by what happened and that hate feeds hate. Not forgiving someone is self-victimizing and/or seeking revenge.

Here's a mantra I would suggest: 

"Do you want to be right/revenged, or do you want to be happy?" 

 

 

[Ayla]

Keeping your grievances is THE only thing keeping your happiness away. 

 

[vizual]

True forgiveness can only take place when you realize that person never really hurt you. Even if that person physically attacked you, or did something emotionally malicious, that action had absolutely nothing to do with you. It was simply them trying to defend themselves against an invisible demon. There has to be absolute peace with the situation. 

If a person stabbed me, it is impossible to truly forgive someone before I fully accept the fact that I have been stabbed. And when you fully accept the situation it's just as easy to forgive the person himself. It does not mean you still have the preference to be around this person, but there is absolutely no ill will towards the person in question any more.

When you can't find it in your heart to forgive someone, it simply means that the pain of that experience is still living on in your reality. The consequences are somehow still manifesting itself in your reality. If that's the case, then that pain has to be addressed. 

[Andre]

4 minutes ago, vizual said:

The consequences are somehow still manifesting itself in your reality. If that's the case, then that pain has to be addressed. 

@vizual How to address that pain

[Andre]

@Ayla

30 minutes ago, Ayla said:

Here's a mantra I would suggest: 

"Do you want to be right/revenged, or do you want to be happy?" My ego wants both ...;) but no seriously I want to be happy

 

[Ayla]

1 minute ago, Andre said:

My ego wants both ...;) but no seriously I want to be happy

Nobody is judging you here. Really  

Just understand that you will have to live with what each of those energies brings about as a result. It is finally... "your choice"

[Andre]

 

@Ayla @Piotr Thank you for your input. I got better understanding now. What happened that time is that I suppressed that pain and forced myself not to feel anymore, I felt immense relief from doing so, but I also "died" inside. 

 

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 6/2/2016 at 6:56 AM, Leo Gura said:

for example, had a real brutally honest 4 hour conversation with my Dad or Mom about all the accumulated baggage between us. But it's so emotionally scary we don't even want to touch that, cause people would be crying and egos would get crushed. Takes a lot of balls to do in practice.

 

Leo I recommend you do it for yourself then. I had this conversation with my Dad, only because it was recommended to me as a way to advance. I said OK and invited my Dad over. I started up the conversation then began the rant. Here are the rules I was given to follow, that worked perfectly. After the experience I felt a huge amount of the damage and pain he caused me was released, and our relationship was not damaged it improved. It was quite unexpected for me how much better I could feel without even having thought there was any reason to need to feel better! I call it take the power back, heres how it works

1 Tell your parents what they did to you (maybe one parent at a time)  that you didnt like, you hated, felt injust about, or damaged you. 

2 Tell them how this made you feel

3 You do not have to listen to what they want to say in response. 

I for example said to my Dad ¨I am not here to listen to your excuses¨ after he began to say ¨Well, thats just the way things were done back then....¨

Have complete freedom and confidence, get into the process 100% with no worries about the consequences. 

Sounds brutal, but my Dad realized alot and had to confront it. I have never gone back to being the same and dont deserve to, is how I looked at it when I felt better. 

As an experiment for us consider it if not for you. If your parents freak out and you regret it just tell them later you got some bad advice from a nut on the internet and want them to forgive you. 

 

[Kevin Dunlop]

On 6/2/2016 at 7:04 AM, Ayla said:

I have access to forgiveness if I direct it towards myself. What I noticed in the end is that it's basically a question of motivation: do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? paradigm comes to mind. 

What also helps is focusing on the end result. All of it brought me here.. so it has its value. 

Still remains a tricky subject... 

I am at a point where this is what I know I need to reach the next level I am bubbling up to. I can forgive myself, I can forgive children, but I have trouble forgiving adults. Expectation leads to disappointment- could I really have any other expectation of an adult in out time? No just because someone is an adult doesnt mean they are wise, they make huge mistakes, are poorly trained, confused, ill. Forgive them too, dont be upset thats just going to poison your body. Stop thinking they deserve your revenge, they dont they deserve to get better just like you. Anyone has alot to learn they can all be seen as young and be given hope for profound changes in the fucture. This is what I am reminding myself of now and conditioning myself to think and feel.