Forgiveness

[denselayman]

2 minutes ago, Elemental said:

It seems that you kinda have to do that part to make progression at some point.  Just visit with diverse groups doing diverse activities.  Especially exercising as it has such a cleansing effect.  And this all repeats it's need as you grow.  Everything cycles, at least once it is started and continued.  The wavelike motion of life let's say.

But yes, those grievances will eat you from the inside.  That's most of the cancer out there!

And you don't have to verbalize much you know with those "new actual interactions".

heh, thx for nudge. i am working on it and am not avoiding it, i embrace new experiences like that, even with shaky legs. with every new one i gain more and also every single one is reinforcing the need/want to do more as i can see improvements in myself from each one =]

i don't even need to be in center of attention or be very smart or likeable, i just need to make common ground and open space for further process =]

 

[Walter B]

12 minutes ago, denselayman said:

heh, thx for nudge. i am working on it and am not avoiding it, i embrace new experiences like that, even with shaky legs. with every new one i gain more and also every single one is reinforcing the need/want to do more as i can see improvements in myself from each one =]

i don't even need to be in center of attention or be very smart or likeable, i just need to make common ground and open space for further process =]

 

You are welcome.  Don't be hard on yourself.  Just know what you must do, when you figure it out.  Write the good stuff down with your own shorthand, whatever you understand long-term things work great.  Being ok as "second" is important, but don't follow people who can't lead themselves to places you have been in mind or body.  These things are easy to forget, beware! A little smart is good.  A little likeable is someone else's perception.  Common ground is nice depending on the nature of the interaction.  It can lead to "loosing yourself" quite quickly however.  Open space can really speed things up.  But if you get on the wrong track you may expand into the wrong vessel !  Kind of like building another box for yourself if you are not careful !

Some trappers use an oblong shaped wire box with a trap door to capture animals.  That box is as big as the animal it is designed to contain.

Are you familiar with people that have the ability to "channel" others?  If you listen around, you may find one that tells your story.  It won't be in order it's too long for that and we live in so many dimensions in so many reference frames.  And it may be told by many different people if you know what to listen for.  But a talented guide may help you.  Where do I think these thoughts are coming from!?  Ask yourself.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Elemental
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[denselayman]

1 minute ago, Elemental said:

You are welcome.  Don't be hard on yourself.  Just know what you must do, when you figure it out.  Write the good stuff down with your own shorthand, whatever you understand long-term things work great.  Being ok as "second" is important, but don't follow people who can't lead themselves to places you have been in mind or body.  These things are easy to forget, beware! A little smart is good.  A little likeable is someone else's perception.  Common ground is nice depending on the nature of the interaction.  It can lead to "loosing yourself" quite quickly however.  Open space can really speed things up.  But if you get on the wrong track you may expand into the wrong vessel !  Kind of like building another box for yourself if you are not careful !

Some trappers use an oblong shaped wire box with a trap door to capture animals.  That box is as big as the animal it is designed to contain.

i am not a great thinker, i rely on my gut feeling more and it proves practial and more true way of doing things. trusting one's mind only leads to fear and all the dark pathways of the labyrinth, i now am quite aware how my mind lies to me and tries to have it's way, so i feel safer to travel my own road now. all in all thx for your input, the point on becoming too loose in empty spce was of vlaue to me =]
be seeing your around~

[Walter B]

19 minutes ago, denselayman said:

i am not a great thinker, i rely on my gut feeling more and it proves practial and more true way of doing things. trusting one's mind only leads to fear and all the dark pathways of the labyrinth, i now am quite aware how my mind lies to me and tries to have it's way, so i feel safer to travel my own road now. all in all thx for your input, the point on becoming too loose in empty spce was of vlaue to me =]
be seeing your around~

Why do you fear your mind?  Dark ways of a labyrinth?

Someone told me once, that my first answer is usually the right one.  I used to describe it as my "gut" as well.  But that usually only works with fresh things.  If allowed to dwell, yes, I can understand how it can become a dark pathway.  Just because no one talks much about evil does not mean it doesn't prowl around regularly!  Some of us are fairly competent at being evil to ourselves!

This is all part of understanding that life doesn't have to be hateful and fearful and controlling and secretive.  There are no secrets really.  Though, doesn't that dwelling and mistrust of one's own mind cause the perception of secrets?

And by the way, I saw some impressive posts from you earlier on here!  Take credit for yourself by yourself.  I think that was my take-away from the neat post about Loving Yourself and how hard that can be sometimes.  And why!

[denselayman]

7 minutes ago, Elemental said:

This is all part of understanding that life doesn't have to be hateful and fearful and controlling and secretive.  There are no secrets really.  Though, doesn't that dwelling and mistrust of one's own mind cause the perception of secrets?

And by the way, I saw some impressive posts from you earlier on here!  Take credit for yourself by yourself.  I think that was my take-away from the neat post about Loving Yourself and how hard that can be sometimes.  And why!

understanding how mind and ego works to protect/preserve itself and how it affects my induidual life is of concern.
and through this process of reflecting, diving deep and facing myself i just try to move myself forward. so far i can tell that my way of doing things have worked for me, i am making solid improvements over time. all of this is not instant and few good internet conversations won't instantly propel me miles ahead, the speed of this entire process is to each his/her own and should be respected. being vigilant, even to one's own mind is healthy, complete  mistrust, however is not.

talking to you is nice, i get to see other opinions and viewpoints, but your messages in contrast to mine are more like a philosophy debate rather than exchange of life experience as feedback for my own process. in that regard i appreciate it, but from practical side of things or just my current mood, i don't want to engage in deep thinking and holding high some deep philosophical ideals.

 

as for crediting myself of my good advice, my ego loves helping/giving out advice, this forums is feeding grounds for it, but i don't focus on my ego and it's indulgence, i am just happy with understanding that even if purely out of selfish reasons i am giving out all this advice, it will help others either my ego gains, or not. people will derive useful points from my text and make what they want out of it,regardless of my ego.

 

take away what you will, but please, don't draw me in a philosophical debate =]

[Walter B]

21 minutes ago, denselayman said:

understanding how mind and ego works to protect/preserve itself and how it affects my induidual life is of concern.
and through this process of reflecting, diving deep and facing myself i just try to move myself forward. so far i can tell that my way of doing things have worked for me, i am making solid improvements over time. all of this is not instant and few good internet conversations won't instantly propel me miles ahead, the speed of this entire process is to each his/her own and should be respected. being vigilant, even to one's own mind is healthy, complete  mistrust, however is not.

talking to you is nice, i get to see other opinions and viewpoints, but your messages in contrast to mine are more like a philosophy debate rather than exchange of life experience as feedback for my own process. in that regard i appreciate it, but from practical side of things or just my current mood, i don't want to engage in deep thinking and holding high some deep philosophical ideals.

 

as for crediting myself of my good advice, my ego loves helping/giving out advice, this forums is feeding grounds for it, but i don't focus on my ego and it's indulgence, i am just happy with understanding that even if purely out of selfish reasons i am giving out all this advice, it will help others either my ego gains, or not. people will derive useful points from my text and make what they want out of it,regardless of my ego.

 

take away what you will, but please, don't draw me in a philosophical debate =]

Didn't mean that at all I have very few ideals to debate, the experiences got buried some time ago and I have to work to discover them, it is so very interesting the comments you have just made!  we'd all be happier to remember them.  I'm about to exercise and take full advantage of this feeding ground of quick internet conversations with a little meditation of sorts!  Sincerely, have a calm and relaxed day we all deserve them!

[Ike Carter]

Super powerful topic.. 

 

Unforgivness, Bitterness, Hatred, Anger...

They all ricochet back onto you to the same measure you've used it to others. The person it mostly hurts is simply yourself...

Im teaching myself "automatic" forgiveness. If anything happens that you feel wrongs you, address it accordingly, but automatically forgive the offender. 

[Colin]

On 2/6/2016 at 1:04 AM, Ayla said:

In my own journey, I have noticed big and small miracles taking place once I managed to forgive people and situations. 

I am talking here about real forgiveness, the one that is replaces hate/fear with unconditional love. 

I think this is a topic that has its place in this forum. What is your experience with forgiveness ? 

Can you share your method of forgiveness? I would like to know so I may benefit from it.


Thanks

- Colin

[Pav]

A way to reach forgiveness is through empathy. Realise that we are all (most of us) fundamentally the same, the sum of all your experiences has shaped you into who you are today. Their are reasons for why people think and act the way they do. Don't condemn them. When someone does you wrong try honestly to see things from their perspective. Put yourself in their position and imagine how you would react. Chances are that if you had experienced all the same things they had you would be similar to them. It is very hard to hate someone when you understand them.

[Arthur M]

Thanks to Leo's vid, Ever since I learned how to contemplate my death, things like holding grudges just seem so petty. Either I just cut off people holding me down if they can't find common ground, or just forget about it if it really has no impact in my ability to grow. In any case I forgive, just because it is for my own good not theirs.

[Jackthelad]

I haven't had time to read through all of the responses. All I know is that even though forgiveness is one of my values, I don't think I am as forgiving as I would like to be. Recently realised this when blaming someone who had hurt me. Was feeding off their guilt and using that to justify my own indignation. Rational me knew better, emotional me was having his 15 minutes of fame.

In any case the firestrom of blame ultimately brought me closer to this person, as I cleared the air and they also got to forgive my own childish behavour. Not that I condone my blaming but we all have weak spots and this just showed me I have more work to do lessening my ego and needing certain things, rather than being more easy going and less attached to unreasonable expectations of others.

I think ego was really at the heart of it all.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Jackthelad
Confusing punctuation

[Navyissuedwife]

REAL forgiveness is what started me on this journey of self improvement!!! If I never got thru this point in my life of understanding I would be a very hurt and lost individual. My parents were very neglectful and abusive type people when I was growing up. My dad never ever realized how much his behaviors affected us kids, even when I started developing illnesses from the behaviors. As a 16year old girl living with just her abusive and neglectful father and evil stepmother, I vilified him! The sound of him chewing could send me into rage mode.  As I got older and realized I too was falling into the trap of family cycles I realized oh no I can't be like my parents, so I started improving my thoughts, about them and myself. I guess making these realizations made me want to look positively and knowing I can't blame my parents for who I am today, they have no say in my life or the way I conduct myself, they didn't teach me to better myself, I did, so how can I hold them responsible for the negative impact on my life. If I was smarter back then I could have done some things to change the situation. Today I respect my father and I love him very much, I see how much of a great man he is, and that he too must teach himself self improvement and he has, and I'm very proud. Forgiveness of him was the greatest gift I've ever given myself, playing the victim would have gotten me no where.

[Ayla]

3 minutes ago, Navyissuedwife said:

REAL forgiveness is what started me on this journey of self improvement!!! If I never got thru this point in my life of understanding I would be a very hurt and lost individual. My parents were very neglectful and abusive type people when I was growing up. My dad never ever realized how much his behaviors affected us kids, even when I started developing illnesses from the behaviors. As a 16year old girl living with just her abusive and neglectful father and evil stepmother, I vilified him! The sound of him chewing could send me into rage mode.  As I got older and realized I too was falling into the trap of family cycles I realized oh no I can't be like my parents, so I started improving my thoughts, about them and myself. I guess making these realizations made me want to look positively and knowing I can't blame my parents for who I am today, they have no say in my life or the way I conduct myself, they didn't teach me to better myself, I did, so how can I hold them responsible for the negative impact on my life. If I was smarter back then I could have done some things to change the situation. Today I respect my father and I love him very much, I see how much of a great man he is, and that he too must teach himself self improvement and he has, and I'm very proud. Forgiveness of him was the greatest gift I've ever given myself, playing the victim would have gotten me no where.

I have been watching your other post here @Navyissuedwife: 

 

If I may, I would suggest you to look very closely at the resemblance between how your father made you feel, and how your husband makes you feel. 

Your husband is just the mirror of an unresolved wound. 

Before you start beating yourself up - know that there is NO EXCEPTION in the human relationships. We all marry our most toxic parent. Universe is so loving, so that it puts right under your nose, the opportunity to heal yourself. 

 

[Navyissuedwife]

You're absolutely right! I've been noticing the same thing thru out my marriage. I love my husband and I want to be able to help him as well as myself. I just want the best for both of us. 

[Ayla]

the best way you can help both of you is to look into these similarities and come to terms with them. That will totally heal your relationship 

[Navyissuedwife]

Thank you for that insight, you're very much appreciated!!

[Ayla]

And so are you

 

 

[Keyblade Viking]

When it comes to "unconditional love" like you mentioned in the first post it's very important to note that that does not mean "unconditional fluff" like a wise man once said.

Unconditional love once achieved always apply to everyone because otherwise it's not unconditional but if someone is being a stupid mind controlled fuck the loving thing to do would be to break down their house of cards even when it hurt them badly, especially when it hurt them badly.

Hopefully you got some love for yourself as well so you don't waste your life on showing truth to people who will only throw rocks on you for it  

Forgiveness also have to come from complete understanding, that's how we're able to let go and like Leo said, do it for yourself

Edited February 9, 2016 by Keyblade Viking - Tobias

[Nic]

For forgiveness, my tricks are to remember myself that 

-It was nowhere written that life should not be experienced with pain.

-Justice / Injustice doesn't exist nowhere else than in our brains and changes from country to country. 

-My exceptions about that person or life in itself was too high.

-My judgment of this person is too simple too understand his true motives for handling this way.

-Letting go of my negative thoughts will only benefit this thing I identify myself with.

-In the past I learned so much from so called negative things that I'm today very thankful of having "endured" them. So I transform negative emotions into positive ones by changing perspective, seeing the long time effect of this event for exemple or being thankful having a mindful exercice to do.

-Not forgetting forgiving myself when I'm not able to apply my own advices for me being only a part time Buddha...  Reminding me that I Am where I'm suppose to be on my path to unconditional love.

[Henri]

Develop compassion and forgiveness will follow. 

It`s not always possible to forgive a 100%, that`s natural. But with compassion, forgiving will be there.

Compassion is always running ahead of forgiveness.